HMS Greyhound by Srenner - Corel - 1:100

[Srenner]

So now I have a mesh I was happy with, I wanted to export it back to Inkscape and overlay it with my traced bulkheads 9 and 10.

 

Not as easy as I thought. The way I did was the following: 

 

1. Selected curve 9 and took a duplicate.

2. Separated that duplicate from the mesh

3. Converted it to a grease pencil with width 0.1 which is 1mm

4. Exported the selected grease pencil as a grease pencil svg

5. Imported the svg back to Inkscape 

 

The hard bit is to keep the aspect ratio so I was careful while overlaying to only use the corner sizer and I was aiming to get the width the same as the bulkhead width.  The resized depth then is the outline of a new bulkhead I can print out and cut out from basswood on the scroll saw.

 

I exported the file on a4 format so easy to print out at work. 

 

I also checked in with the actual pieces from the kits remeasuring and seeing if my resized bulkheads look OK. I now also have a theoretical rabbit line I can use to position all the bulkheads too and that may require some trimming and stuff when I dry fit them.

 

I can't do any actual building I am moving in two weeks and need to reset up the workshop... then all my theory can become practice. 

 

A good learning experience... the first steps in 3d modelling.

[Draque]

That looks really good, nice work. Especially considering you’ve only recently started using either program. 

[Srenner]

Now I'm mostly moved I have started to set up my workshop so I can start hms greyhound. I know what I need to do to fix bulkheads 9 and 10 so I will glue a paper copy onto a piece of 3mm plywood and cut them out separately before dry fitting. All the other pieces weren't cut out that exactly and needed a bit of filing to get them to fit frim the manufacturer. I can see bulkhead 11 and 12 need to move down 2mm and than I will need to bend the deck they provided into a slight dish... 

 

Do all ships decks camber and bend like a u? Because it looks like mahogany its going to be very brittle to bend and the ribs dont line up with the holes precut.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

You know what I'm pretty happy with how my blender adjusted bulkheads came out... I printed them off and cut them out of basswood first and that wasn't as satisfactory as using plywood... its pretty soft and bendy and so I printed another copy of the bulkheads and cut them out from 3mm plywood instead. I cut on the outside of the line so I can fair them in with the rest of the bulkheads and I'm happy they all line up at the bottom by the imaginary rabit line. I've been trying some bits of planking and testing the  natural lines and think I can work with them as I fair it all in.

 

The decking plywood needed some filing of the precut holes but that all fitting now too. So this is all dry fitted at the moment. Will be time soon to cut the rabit line and then do all the fairing and make sure the deck looks OK.

 

I'm think I should put in any filler blocks I want now before doing the fairing?

 

Need to square up bulkhead 4 so it's vertical. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

Dry fitting continues and happy with how things going. Fitted some filler blocks at the bow and still working on tweaking the pre cut pieces here and there. 

 

I'm not going to rush to glue pieces in until I'm happy with the hull lines, the fairing and cut the line the planks fit into.

 

One question was putting a camber into the plywood veneer deck. I can see it will bend slightly so I took some slices out of the bottom side to help with bending but should I glue it down and nail it with the panel pins then remove the pins once the glue dries? Or wet the plywood bend it and then dry it again like planks of wood and then glue?

[allanyed]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:24 AM, Srenner said:

I know this kit is a bit rubbish but I'm dead keen on building a stable of HMS Royal Navy ships and starting with a sixth rate ship of the line and building upwards..

It sounds like you really want to build ships that are accurate and I think your idea of starting small is a great way to go.   Will you be staying with vessels from the same era, that is all of them 1719 Establishment vessels like Greyhound?

 

I really hope you don't mind but the top timbers of the frames/bulkheads look rather strange, at least to me.   I realize this may be very weak at your scale, but the moulded dimension of the top timbers of a 20 gun had moulded dimension  (in and out) of 2 1/4"   The moulded dimension on the kit parts looks to be about 10 times too thick which will require a very wide cap rail to cover the planking and top of the frames.   Then again it may be the angle of the photos.  I realize some folks will not find this kind of thing the least bit important which is absolutely fine so if this kind of info is not of interest, my apologies for bringing it up.  

Full scantlings for all size RN ships built to the 1719 Establishment are available in at least two publications.   

I enlarged the photo to full scale to get close to the 28' 5.5" beam of Greyhound 1720 and come up with the top timbers being 18" to 20" in and out instead of 2 1/4"

Allan

 

 

[Srenner]

I plan to go 6th rate, 5th rate scratch build down to first rate all RN around 1700ish

 

I'm only going with what the kit gives me... will look at the rail timber and scale it off that. They will be lined on the inside as well as the outside.. good catch though

[Srenner]

Yikes I just read on in the instructions and it's very scant on the details around the area of in and around the gun ports and the railings and it took me 20 minutes to work out the diameter of the bowsprit dowel... 6mm if you want to know. And then the bowsprit won't fit in so I'm going to have to drill and ream out a space in around the bow for that lucky I haven't glued it yet.

 

The rails are 4mm and that means I need to take the ribs very thin indeed to fit in... will think on that one.

[Srenner]

Am I doing the scale conversion wrong? 2.25 inches is 56mm divided by 100 is 0.56mm ?!?

 

Off the model plans the 4mm x 100 is 400mm which is 16 inches approx scaled up?

[allanyed]

11 hours ago, Srenner said:

Am I doing the scale conversion wrong? 2.25 inches is 56mm divided by 100 is 0.56mm ?!?

You are close  2.25X25.4 = 57mm.   57/100 = 0.57mm.  There is no way the plywood bulkheads can be thinned and remain strong.  Some folks cut them off and replace with something stronger like using plywood lying in a different direction or a good quality hardwood.  

In the end if you don't care about the bulkwarks being super wide go for it, but the cap rail may look odd.

Look at scantlings for a 20 gun in the 1719 Establishment and it will help you a lot.

Allan

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

There is no way the plywood bulkheads can be thinned and remain strong.

 

Typically on kits, the strength of the bulkhead gunwales extensions come from the planking; inside and out.

 

You should see the ModelShipways Rattlesnake.    I have stopped counting how many I have had to replace.

They are only 1/8" @ 1:48.

 

 

Additionally, reinforcing those pieces can interfere with gun port framing.

[Gregory]

Once the outer planking first layer is in place, those  frames can be thinned as much as you need to..

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, Gregory said:

Once the outer planking first layer is in place, those  frames can be thinned as much as you need to..

Sounds like a great idea Gregory.  Going a step further, once the outboard strakes are in place I wonder if anyone has successfully just cut them off altogether and used inboard quick work that is a little thicker than would normally be used.  For example if the inboard planking is 2" thick, go to 4.25" thick (about 1.1mm at 1:100)

Allan

Edited January 28, 2023 by allanyed

[Gregory]

4 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Going a step further, once the outboard strakes are in place I wonder if anyone has successfully just cut them off altogether

I have seen kit instructions that actually call for this..

[Srenner]

Good idea.. maybe you can even not glue them on to the frames just pin them and then build the inner timbers as the part that glue it all together then cut the ends of the frame off and close the gaps.

[allanyed]

I suspect there are a number of ways to get to the end.   I am not sure what the width of the rail that rests on the top timbers was on this ship, but assuming it follows the 1719 Establishment dimension of 8" what lies beneath, be it framing and/or just planking, needs to be less than 8" (2mm)   Tough scale to work, so kudos to you for working at it!

Allan

[Srenner]

I have bigger problems right now I was working in several things.. slots for rods for display going into the spine, rebating the rabit line with the dremel, that's nerve wracking and then I stupidly leant on the spine with my elbow and snap! It broke in half...

 

So right now it is being glued back together with blocks of wood over the break line and a ton of pva... lucky it was quite a jagged break and the bits slotted back together well... 

 

Once all the planking on and the deck glued down it will be back to a strong structure but you don't need hassles like this with a fiddly build.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

After screwing in a steel bracing element and gluing all the spine is not too bad... pretty straight and level. I've done all I wanted in terms of mast seating blocks and getting the bulkheads all even at the bottom so I've gone ahead and glued the deck down with some pins to hold it all together while it glues.   I will just grind the heads off when I lay the decking.

 

Painted the frames black so that when I put the hold covers on you won't see any lighter colour in there.

 

Going to build the timber upto the rail from the outside in and then cut off the thick ribs and deck over the stumps.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

I'm trying to work out how to bend 1.5mm mahogany strips around the bow... soaking and heat gun has been tried but it still wants to crack. You just need to be very careful when you bend it. Would a jig help or not?

 

As a result I am building up the timber above the gunports in parts and gluing together.

 

Later on I'm going to cut back the bulkheads from the inside and then do the final horizontal strips of mahogany on the inside. It's taking time waiting for glue to set but they say patience is a virtue.

[Srenner]

I am loving having time this long weekend to do some modelling..... its way nicer to sit down for a good 6-8 hour session and make some good progress.

 

The bow curved sections of the inner rail were not as hard as I thought... I soaked the pieces for a good 1 hour and carefully bent them using my fingers and a pair of pliers.  I also tried the plank bender but being only 1mm thick there was a danger of cutting into them too much.

 

Once I glued them into place with pva I used the heat gun to dry the wood out faster and also to get the glue going off faster... as it was awkward to clamp up near the bow.

 

I have also cut one rib out from the inside to see how difficult that would be but also pretty easy with a dremel and cutting wheel and then a bit of dremel sanding and looking pretty good. Happy with that result so will continue with rest of ribs same way.

 

 

[Srenner]

Another wet Sunday in our summer here in nz... this time a tropical cyclone coming down from the tropics...  but good modelling weather again! 

 

I'm making progress with the walnut strips and lime around the gun ports. The really tricky part is the hard bends at the bow. I've tried soaking them and bending them without heat which works well with the walnut but not with the lime... on one of the photos you can see the outer fires of the timber strip has cracked... im thinking just sand it off and there could be some filler in around there. The instructions aren't very clear where the second planking goes... I think that plank will be covered with 1mm walnut but not sure.

 

The other thing is the cutting out of the ribs from the inside to make the rail thinner.. final scale thickness will still be 500mm which is massive. I'm contemplating trying to sand it down to 400mm scale (4mm) only because the rail timber I have is 4mm.. or I could cut some new rails from mahogany I have.... need to think on that.

[hamilton]

Nice looking so far - the wood stock supplied by Corel is, if memory serves, not great. A good soaking in warm water and pre-bending in a jig might help with the splitting. I didn't use the kit-supplied gunport frames but framed out the ports myself with spare wood strips, so I could run longer lengths of planking down the hull, which makes it a bit easier than trying to bend such short runs of planking. But I think a bit of knife work (a scalpel blade will shave off that little flare of wood and some filler ands sandpaper will do the rest) and a bit of filling and sanding will produce a good result.

 

hamilton

[Srenner]

Hi hamilton

 

I have never liked the metal parts of this kit... you have inspired me to pull out those bits and replace with some 0.7mm basswood and paint red colour. 

 

My thoughts as always turn to the horrible stern piece...

Edited February 12, 2023 by Srenner

[hamilton]

That awful thing!! I remember spending quite some time looking at it and wondering what the heck to do about it....someone pointed out that the frieze on it is actually derived from HMS Victory - built 45 years after Greyhound.....

 

If you check out my build log for HMS Blandford (my Greyhound build) you can see my solution to the transom issue and the related quarter gallery issue...Feel free to crib from that if you're dissatisfied with those parts! It was pointed out to me in my log that my diamond shaped window frames were also out-of-place for the period, but I was so constrained in the materials available to me for this that I had to just not care....

 

Anyways.....if you can grab some 2mm thick basswood/lime sheeting you can work something up that will function much better than that metal part. You can use the metal part as a template for creating a thin wooden "foundation" for the transom and locating the stern lights and so on.

 

Keep at it!! The rewarding parts will come soon enough!!

hamilton

[Srenner]

I'm starting to prep for planking and been doing the calcs for planks based on the flow lines attached. Calculated one drop plank at the bow and one split plank at the stern. Garboard strike is in.

 

Also this lovely book arrived from Amazon and the other book on 1719 establishment also in the mail... such awesome models including HMS Lizard, a sixth rate ship... but the decoration is a bit ott.

[Old Collingwood]

This  is  what  I did  with  my  stern  - 

 

OC.

[Srenner]

Thanks... how did you take the cast of the rearing lion and the unicorn?

Edited February 16, 2023 by Srenner

[Srenner]

After reading and reading again the planking primers in the database and measuring with the tailors tape etc I can get my head around the bottom third of the hull with a splitter strake... seems easy and it was...

 

The iron technique worked awesomely with just a quick dab with a paint brush dipped in water... very good will do that again.

 

I just can't get my head around how to do the middle third... I know I need a drop strake in there but can't work out the angles and things... will do the top third next then worry about that later.

[Srenner]

So in this build I wanted to show a warts and all process for planking with a small scale ship. Yes its not pretty but the unsanded and un smoothed hull for first plank is still part of the journey.

 

I seem to have run out of lime for this... so will have to buy some extra from a shop in christchurch. One side getting closer to closed in before sanding. A few mistakes along the way to fix up with filler.

 

My first drop strake coming into the bow will be the only correction strake on this first planking.

[Srenner]

Planking is well on the way to be finished... 5 planks left to go. As always your technique improves as you progress now edge bending with an iron is second nature and the planks going fairly easily. 

 

This book arrived in the mail today and also the order has gone in for the 3d printer so I'm to print alot of things the the kit provides but are crude by comparison. Of course learning to use it is a hobby in itself so that will be interesting.

 

Have a good idea for the figurehead which replaces the boring semi naked lady... if I can design it and print it well