Cutty Sark by VitusBering - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC - Abandoned

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

I got a "First Edition" Longridge set a few years ago from Abe Books.

I did find them very useful.

(Campbells Plans are really good also although I had to get mine enlarged at a local print shop so I could read the detail.)

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

[VitusBering]

Thanks HOF, that's very encouraging. That's the same vendor I got mine from. How large did you make the Campbell plans - wait - the ones from the book or the one(s) from the Royal Museum? The museum ones are pretty big already (758x567 mm or approx. 30x22 in.) so I am assuming the ones from the book. So the question remains in any case, I think)... how big did you make them?

 

I will have to juggle other artwork to make room for the Museum plans if I get both the Rigging and Sail plans.

This brings back memories of scratch building a 1/4 scale de Havilland Chipmunk in Art Scholl livery in my garage. I had full scale plans that took up three of the walls and part of the ceiling. I tried to have them reduced but no one would take the job.

Edited January 25, 2023 by VitusBering

[hof00]

5 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Thanks HOF, that's very encouraging. That's the same vendor I got mine from. How large did you make the Campbell plans - wait - the ones from the book or the one(s) from the Royal Museum? The museum ones are pretty big already (758x567 mm or approx. 30x22 in.) so I am assuming the ones from the book. So the question remains in any case, I think)... how big did you make them?

 

I will have to juggle other artwork to make room for the Museum plans if I get both the Rigging and Sail plans.

This brings back memories of scratch building a 1/4 scale de Havilland Chipmunk in Art Scholl livery in my garage. I had full scale plans that took up three of the walls and part of the ceiling. I tried to have them reduced but no one would take the job.

Hi Chap,

The plans that I had enlarged were from the Museum.

I got them enlarged to the largest "B" size. (I think that's a "B2?" Not sure sorry..... )

You should ge6 3 plans, Sail, Rigging and General Arrangement, Sheer/Plan views.

 

Once enlarged. they were about 1/96 Scale. (And yes, they took up lots of Wall Space!! 🙂)

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited January 25, 2023 by hof00

[Bob Fraser]

Hi both

41 minutes ago, hof00 said:

The plans that I had enlarged were from the Museum.

I got them enlarged to the largest "B" size. (I think that's a "B2?" Not sure sorry..... 

The largest B size is B0, which isn't quite big enough to make them 1/96. ☹️

By my maths, admittedly a bit shakey, At 1/128 they'd need to be scaled up by 1.3333 and the paper size to fit that is 2A0 (5'6 x 4')😲

There'd be a fair margin to cut off though!

You could always measure off the plan and multiply.

 

Longridge must have used Underhills drawings for his model, as they are the ones provided in the book.

Another book to look for could be the Noel Hackney one for the Airfix smaller scale model which gives quite a few changes and upgrades for it.

 

[Cirdan]

For the rigging I would recommend Underhills book on masting and rigging of clipper ships. It is one of the best sources on the subject. 

 

https://www.skipper.co.uk/catalogue/item/masting-and-rigging  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Cirdan

[VitusBering]

2 hours ago, Cirdan said:

For the rigging I would recommend Underhills book on masting and rigging of clipper ships. It is one of the best sources on the subject. 

 

https://www.skipper.co.uk/catalogue/item/masting-and-rigging  

Ordered straight away. Thank you!

[VitusBering]

Wow, HOF. I don't think I have room for three B0 size plans. I'll leave them at their published size and use a magnifying glass if need be. I did order both the Sail and General Arrangement plans to complement the Rigging plan. They will look great in arrangement on the walls. It almost seems a shame to leave them in the craft room where only a few eyes will see them. I'll try to convince the boss to let me find wall space in one of the living areas.

 

Btw, folks... it is perfectly OK to use my name (Darryl). I chose the Vitus Bering handle as a nod to my previous life in the Arctic.

[shipman]

I seem to recall the Underhill plans contained in Longridge were modified by Underhill to include the results of his research.

 

As I've never seen the ORIGINAL Underhill drawings, I have no idea what those alterations entailed; or, indeed were they printed larger? I do believe they can still be purchased here https://www.modelerscentral.com/model-ship-plans/underhill-model-ship-plans/

[hof00]

Hi Darryl,

An early photo of my Cutty., this is the 1/78 Sergal/Mantua 1/78 version.

The reason I am posting this is the size with reference to the plan on the wall. (As I mentioned, I could not recall what "B" size they were/are. 🙂)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

 

 

 

[VitusBering]

Thanks Shipman.  Unfortunately those are currently out of stock - and the site doesn't mention size or how many drawings are included.

Since the ones included in the book have been updated, it would only be a matter of curiosity for me to compare them in detail.

At the price Modelers Central is asking, I'm not that curious 😉

 

While I'm awaiting arrival of the veneer decking I've not been totally idle. I've cleaned and prepped the masts (only the lower part, joining the half shells and dealing with the never-ending flash). I've also painted the deck houses (they turned out great), and I'm now setting up to paint the brass belaying pins black. I don't want to deal with trying to chemically blacken them, that hasn't worked out well for me in the past.

 

Here's my pin painting jig. When the heads are done, I should be able to flip the paper and do the pin parts (example / proof of concept shown on the folded paper). I don't know what weight the paper is but it is slightly heavier than regular copier paper and not as heavy as card stock. It's something my wife picked chose for her art. I marked the spots and poked pilot holes with a map pin.

 

I included one of the wooden pins to show why I am not fond of them. They're too fat and too short.

 

 

[VitusBering]

That's a great looking model, Harry, and thank you very much for the info. Wow, really nice pic.

Edited January 25, 2023 by VitusBering

[hof00]

2 hours ago, VitusBering said:

That's a great looking model, Harry, and thank you very much for the info. Wow, really nice pic.

Thanks Chap.

The CS took ma 6.5 years of weekend work tro complete and was my third ship model.

(A very steep learning curve. 🙂)

 

The plastic "Connex" thing in the foreground is my Serving device.

 

I did a "Truncated" build log on MSW if you are interested.

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

Edited January 26, 2023 by hof00

[VitusBering]

I recognized the serving thing - not that one specifically, that one looks unique, but like a Sterling engine, it doesn't matter how it is constructed, the function is evident with a bit of inspection. Serving your own lines is impressive - beyond my skill at the moment. I don't think a plastic model is worthy of that kind of effort. When and if I attempt a museum quality wood model I may attempt it.

 

I also think that should that time come I'll probably invest in a 3d printer. But that's a ways down the road. You took over six years working weekends to complete the Cutty Sark (I have studied your build log, btw. Very nicely done) and it may take me at least half that long working regularly to finish this model.

 

This is my first ship model since the '80s. I've built R/C planes both from kits and scratch but even though they're semi-scale, they don't take the level of craftsmanship, expertise, and knowledge a tall ship demands.

 

That's a prime reason I'm here - to learn.

[Ian_Grant]

Underhill's excellent book is entitled "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier". It has many excellent diagrams of ironwork on yards and masts, and rigging details but is not specific to CS. I believe there is an AOTS Cutty Sark (may be wrong). There is also a little book by Noel Hackney on CS; I've never seen it but his book on Victory is very good, though under-rated in my opinion.

 

By the way I see no one answered your question about the bars running along the tops of the yards (or did I miss it?). They're called jackstays and the head of the sail was attached to them, not the actual yard.

 

Good luck with your build. She's a beautiful ship.

 

This is the 1/96 scale model, correct?

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, VitusBering said:

I recognized the serving thing - not that one specifically, that one looks unique, but like a Sterling engine, it doesn't matter how it is constructed, the function is evident with a bit of inspection. Serving your own lines is impressive - beyond my skill at the moment. I don't think a plastic model is worthy of that kind of effort. When and if I attempt a museum quality wood model I may attempt it.

Vitus, if you become hooked on ship models, you might like to try a Heller Victory which is hands down the best plastic sailing ship model extant.

She is well worth the bother of serving shrouds and stays as appropriate.

[VitusBering]

Thank you Ian, for your kind words and valuable info. I didn't mean to denigrate plastic models in general, some are awesome. I will quite likely look into the Heller Victory as a next build.

 

In my preliminary studies I have learned of jackstays - but I do thank you profusely and I'm sure I'll have plenty of other questions too as this project progresses.

 

I need to research Hackney more. He seems to have a mixed reception among reviewers but, in my opinion, every author has value.

 

Thank you again. I am very happy to have found and joined this community.

[hof00]

5 hours ago, VitusBering said:

I recognized the serving thing - not that one specifically, that one looks unique, but like a Sterling engine, it doesn't matter how it is constructed, the function is evident with a bit of inspection. Serving your own lines is impressive - beyond my skill at the moment. I don't think a plastic model is worthy of that kind of effort. When and if I attempt a museum quality wood model I may attempt it.

 

I also think that should that time come I'll probably invest in a 3d printer. But that's a ways down the road. You took over six years working weekends to complete the Cutty Sark (I have studied your build log, btw. Very nicely done) and it may take me at least half that long working regularly to finish this model.

 

This is my first ship model since the '80s. I've built R/C planes both from kits and scratch but even though they're semi-scale, they don't take the level of craftsmanship, expertise, and knowledge a tall ship demands.

 

That's a prime reason I'm here - to learn.

Hi Darryl,

Very kind words, thank you.

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry..

[Bob Fraser]

Hi Daryll

Have you seen Sailcats CS ?

The Noel Hackney book is available at Alibris AbeBooks and is the most expensive of his set.

In the Longridge books Underhills plans are 50cm x 39cm and are dated 1974 in the edition I have.

In the intro to the book by Longridge, dated 1933, he says that Underhill did indeed alter his original plans to take into account the new research in the book.

From the RMG the original date is 1932 for the Underhill drawings, and Campbells are the 1950s. (I do have both sets on modern printings)

Each drawing has the original scale, and then 4 more scales below for the modeller to upscale for different sizes of model. Pic from the book insert.

If you wanted to go really mad the RMG has drawings going to 1/12 scale but has a  Set at 1/96th done in 1922. Drawing list is lower on the page.

These would be a special order though, as they haven't yet been digitised, and likely at a higher cost.

From the restoration dates the 1922 / 1932 plans could well be the closest to the original, with Campbells possibly being based on the 1950s restoration.

Hope this helsps a little,

Bob

[Ian_Grant]

8 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Thank you Ian, for your kind words and valuable info. I didn't mean to denigrate plastic models in general, some are awesome. I will quite likely look into the Heller Victory as a next build.

I too returned to the hobby after making several ships, including the CS, in the 70's. It has been a source of much satisfaction.

 

To whet your appetite for the big Heller kit, here are a couple of in-progress shots of my Victory to show what can be done with plastic. I bought it in 1982 and it sat on a shelf for decades. There are several sheets of brass etch enhancements available now; I bought two of them. Most people take years for her, I took five working on and off. Bill97 built her very quickly, see his log.

 

 

[VitusBering]

1 hour ago, Ian_Grant said:

I too returned to the hobby after making several ships, including the CS, in the 70's. It has been a source of much satisfaction.

 

To whet your appetite for the big Heller kit, here are a couple of in-progress shots of my Victory to show what can be done with plastic. I bought it in 1982 and it sat on a shelf for decades. There are several sheets of brass etch enhancements available now; I bought two of them. Most people take years for her, I took five working on and off. Bill97 built her very quickly, see his log.

 

 

 

 

Beautifully done. Very inspirational.

[shipman]

Lovely to see so much enthusiasm for a lovely ship, which we are lucky to have with us still.

There's nothing more imposing when you see any ship in the flesh; it gives an overwhelming sense of awe and scale.

 

If the Hackney book can be found at a reasonable cost it would be worth having, whatever its limitations are.

 

Longridge:

I encountered his book and magnificent model of Victory many years ago and was blown away. I'm very sympathetic to his almost academic approach to the subjects he modeled.

 

If you read either the CS or Victory tome you can't help but appreciate the thought and care he applied.

Both ships were visited and studied by him; CS when still afloat!

 

So it will surprise no one when I tend to sympathise and trust his (Underhill) plans above any others.

By comparison, the Campbell drawings are (to me) more like stylized illustrations rather than plans. Those drawings are mainly so impressive as the sheets are so large, yet the drawings lack definition, more like a childs picture book.

 

Never a popular opinion. I know, but I'm too old to worry about such frippery.

[VitusBering]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Lovely to see so much enthusiasm for a lovely ship, which we are lucky to have with us still.

There's nothing more imposing when you see any ship in the flesh; it gives an overwhelming sense of awe and scale.

[...]

 

Oh, I could not agree more. Not just the sights but the sounds, even the smells, of an up close and personal experience with a tall ship is incomparable.

I'm envious, I haven't been to Greenwich. I will visit one day, I've bargained for that with She Who Is Queen Of The Castle. She wants to go to Portugal this summer and I've agreed. Greenwich -- soon.

[Ian_Grant]

I'm dying to go aboard Victory, but don't want to fly all the way across the big drink to see her dismasted. By the time they finish this 20-year refit I'll be 74. I have my daughter's promise that if needs must she will go with me to push my wheelchair. Hoping it won't come to that! 😆

 

I did see her in the early 80's but at that time the foremast was unrigged and the bow was enveloped in scaffolding and blue tarps. 😭

[shipman]

I lived in London through the 1980's and visited CS several times.

Of course the ship was as intended, sitting in the dry-dock, entirely exposed. The copper bottom was getting a bit shabby by then but that didn't detract from the spectacle.

 

Like many I was shocked to see her live, on the news, burning; but it turned out most of the consumables were removed and in storage at Chatham, so in the long run, the fire became a bonus, in that it generated the funds that were lacking to do the restoration properly.

 

No doubt lots of ingenuity went into the re-build and development of how she's displayed today.

Unfortunately I don't like what has become of her. Mainly a corporate party venue, which no doubt generates the money to keep her 'alive', but the last time I checked, Joe Public has to cough up £20 to climb aboard and to be honest I think that's on the steep side.

 

As a passing visitor, seeing her floating on a glass ice berg, detracts so much from how she looks.

Nothing like progress, but at least she's there.

[VitusBering]

I agree with all you wrote, shipman. I've not been, of course, but I do want to go even if she bears little resemblance to the gorgeous working tea clipper she once was. The fire was tragic, the restoration - well, it was well-intentioned. The same can be said of the Star of India in San Diego. That, too, was a historically important vessel but nautical nerds like me take exception to what has been done to her.

[VitusBering]

I've been overly chatty in this thread but I haven't forgotten this is a build log. Nor have I been idle awaiting delivery of the replacement veneer deck (which got delivered ahead of schedule just moments ago - yay!).

 

My pin painting jig worked out as well as I had hoped. The left pin rails are done except for the winches - they'll wait until the cement on the pins is fully set.

 

I think I'll work on the deck, starting with the smaller pieces. I sure like the look of the oak better than the beech.

 

[Bob Fraser]

Pin rails look good, Daryll. Are they HisModel?

I've dug my Underhill plans out, and they're the same scale as the Campbell ones. 

There are several differences between the Revell model, Underhill and Campbell, notably the number and position of boats, and Underhill has 3 different forecastle arrangements depending on date.

The original specs that I have a typed copy of call for the Revell and Campbell layout of the forecastle, and this is the way she was restored originally as noted on Underhills 3rd drawing.

My own model, started OOB, is laid up for the time being as it was knocked from a shelf and has a few bits gone missing and broken. 😭 I'll get back to her one day soon.

If you need any info from the big Underhill plans let me know.

Cheers,

Bob

[VitusBering]

4 minutes ago, Bob Fraser said:

Pin rails look good, Daryll. Are they HisModel?

 

Well, yes and no. The rails proper are from the kit, I just snipped off the heads and tails of the pins, drilled holes where they were, and set the newly painted brass pins (those are from HISModel). The new pins are slightly longer and definitely stronger (of course) than the ones in the kit. I almost didn't paint them but now I'm sure glad I did. Thank you for your kind words.

 

At some future date I may again attempt the chemical blackening thing but I am gun-shy after several failed attempts in the past.

 

7 minutes ago, Bob Fraser said:

I've dug my Underhill plans out, and they're the same scale as the Campbell ones. 

There are several differences between the Revell model, Underhill and Campbell, notably the number and position of boats, and Underhill has 3 different forecastle arrangements depending on date.

The original specs that I have a typed copy of call for the Revell and Campbell layout of the forecastle, and this is the way she was restored originally as noted on Underhills 3rd drawing.

[...]

If you need any info from the big Underhill plans let me know.

 

Thank you Bob. I don't know yet what info I will have, or need, but I'll let you know and thank you very much for the offer.

The Royal Mail was cyber-attacked and is halted for a few days until they're sure they've dealt with the problem so my books and drawings may be delayed. Not a concern, I'm a patient sort. (That's a lie 😉

 

12 minutes ago, Bob Fraser said:

My own model, started OOB, is laid up for the time being as it was knocked from a shelf and has a few bits gone missing and broken. 😭 I'll get back to her one day soon.

 

Oh no! I do hope the damage is not too significant. I have pets (dogs and cats) so I do worry about that sort of thing.

Take care, and thank you again.

[VitusBering]

Progress... the veneer is glued on, the deck is only dry-fit at the moment, I'll add the hold boxes, clamp it up and glue it in later today.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by VitusBering

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Guess you'll use metal deck eyes instead of the plastic ones from the kit.  It may be worth considering mounting the deck eyes where they go on the deck, and bending the ends over underneath the deck (and fixing with a dab of epoxy for good measure) before gluing the deck in place.  There are also some eyes that protrude from the hull, and pre-mounting them (with ends bent over and foxed) can also be done before permanently mounting the deck.

 

  I still favor the book by Noel C. L. Hackney 'Cutty Sark', #3 in the Classic Ships and how to model them series.  As said elsewhere, it is a highly compressed (in logic or organization) primer meant to enhance a 70's Airfix 1:130 scale plastic model of the CS - so one has to leaf back and forth a bit to glean what info is desired.  The book has pin diagrams and darn near every rope imaginable is covered - from the order of rigging, the origin and belaying points.  There is great info on all the block sets that control the chain sheets2 - also blocks needed for halyard rigging.