Cutty Sark by VitusBering - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC - Abandoned

[hof00]

9 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Yours is awesome too, Harry - just a different kit and you have done a stellar job of it.

Thank you, that is too kind.

After 10+ years of this hobby, I'm still prone to stupid mistakes, and still keep making them!!🙂

 

A quote that I picked up on a model ship site, now sadly closed....

 

"There is no such thing as a bad ship model only better ones."

(There are many better ones here than my simple efforts. 🙂)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by hof00

[VitusBering]

I hope to be learning from you for a long time to come, though I'm not certain I can attain your skill level.

 

Here's an example of the question I asked in Bruma's build log about clearing the holes in fife rail legs.

This is the front and back of one of the rails, two others are similar. The forth, inexplicably, has round legs.

I'm not sure what, if any, material should be removed here.

There are very small through holes (covered by flash initially) that I've cleared with a micro drill bit.

 

I haven't seen the legs used in the rigging detail I have, though bear in mind I'm still waiting on Longridge and Underhill books.

 

 

It is a bit blurry 'cause I took these with my phone but the small round things in the holes on the left are ejector pin cruft.

Cleaning these out to the edges of the outline would be quite a pain.

It appears that only the smaller already-existing holes are appropriate.

 

[edit] there is this, from images posted here

 

I can't yet find where those lines come from (yet). Still researching.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by VitusBering

[hof00]

4 hours ago, VitusBering said:

I hope to be learning from you for a long time to come, though I'm not certain I can attain your skill level.

 

Here's an example of the question I asked in Bruma's build log about clearing the holes in fife rail legs.

This is the front and back of one of the rails, two others are similar. The forth, inexplicably, has round legs.

I'm not sure what, if any, material should be removed here.

There are very small through holes (covered by flash initially) that I've cleared with a micro drill bit.

 

I haven't seen the legs used in the rigging detail I have, though bear in mind I'm still waiting on Longridge and Underhill books.

 

 

It is a bit blurry 'cause I took these with my phone but the small round things in the holes on the left are ejector pin cruft.

Cleaning these out to the edges of the outline would be quite a pain.

It appears that only the smaller already-existing holes are appropriate.

 

[edit] there is this, from images posted here

 

I can't yet find where those lines come from (yet). Still researching.

 

I would not know where the lines go without referring to the plans.

Main Mast Fife Rail Sheave holes.

 

There are heaps of Running Rigging lines that terminate on these.

I'll have a look at the plans tomorrow and see if I can identify these for you.

 

A couple of photos included of the Fore and Main Fife Rails of my CS under construction.

(I know full well that they are not 100% accurate but the "Best I could do" at the time given the constraints of the kit. 🙂)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

You're right, the old Revell instructions show no lines through these sheaves. They're empty in my old CS; what did I know in the 70's?

 

I'd say for sure the lower lifts use these sheaves. I'd bet on topsail sheets too before the days of the split topsail. With split topsails like CS I am not sure. You'll need a book specific to CS.

 

Nice work!

[Bob Fraser]

Just pulled out my Underhill Vol1. Page 159 gives the following -

"In the lower third are three sheaves, representing the old-fashioned 9 pin blocks: a purchase could be rove through one of these sheaves and then more room could be gained for the crew to heave on it."

He shows 3 sheaves in the front pinrail pillars, and one in the pillars aft of the foremast, and 3 sheaves in the mainmast front pillars. None on the mizzen.

Also noted is that more than one rope was used per belaying pin - could they have been used then to help identify the haul?

Edited February 21, 2023 by Bob Fraser

[VitusBering]

Thank you Bob and Ian, that's valuable info.

I am champing at the bit waiting for my Underhill and Longridge books.

The sellers say the Royal Mail has mostly recovered but tracking info is still sparse - both orders seem to be in limbo.

The sellers are responsive though so I trust them to get the books here eventually.

 

It does make sense to reave through the pillars for better heaving.

More than one rope per pin... oof. It is a fair bet that's not happening on the model.

Edited February 21, 2023 by VitusBering

[VitusBering]

Great news. The Longridge books arrived today.

As advertised, they are in near perfect condition (they were listed as Fine in bookseller's parlance and I totally agree).

The plates in the rear pockets of both volumes are complete and in truly excellent condition.

 

I've barely skimmed a few pages but one thing is abundantly clear.

My current build, as much joy as it is bringing me, is a rehearsal.

That doesn't mean I won't put every effort possible into this build, I certainly will.

But, next time, there is a laundry list of things I'll do differently.

 

That's looking too far forward, I have a ship in front of me that I adore and need to finish.

If I can ever get the bloomin' paint. (Some of it has shipped but will take a week or more to arrive).

 

Still waiting on the Underhill book but I think it will be here before the end of the week.

 

As an aside, I'm waffling about the Flemish Horses and footropes.

Since I'm planning to add cloth sails, I'm just not sure about the ropes.

I haven't made a decision, I'm just mulling it.

[rwiederrich]

On 2/21/2023 at 2:01 PM, VitusBering said:

Great news. The Longridge books arrived today.

As advertised, they are in near perfect condition (they were listed as Fine in bookseller's parlance and I totally agree).

The plates in the rear pockets of both volumes are complete and in truly excellent condition.

 

I've barely skimmed a few pages but one thing is abundantly clear.

My current build, as much joy as it is bringing me, is a rehearsal.

That doesn't mean I won't put every effort possible into this build, I certainly will.

But, next time, there is a laundry list of things I'll do differently.

 

That's looking too far forward, I have a ship in front of me that I adore and need to finish.

If I can ever get the bloomin' paint. (Some of it has shipped but will take a week or more to arrive).

 

Still waiting on the Underhill book but I think it will be here before the end of the week.

 

As an aside, I'm waffling about the Flemish Horses and footropes.

Since I'm planning to add cloth sails, I'm just not sure about the ropes.

I haven't made a decision, I'm just mulling it.

Vitus.....   I built this model 5 times and each time...I increased my level of detail.  Of course years of experience with many other models in between and with much scratch building as well...prepared me for the task.

Foot ropes and Flemish horses are a necessity for working the sails on the yards.  You may forgo them now....but the fact remains, you might as well refrain from adding the fife rails or the poop and forecastle rails as well. And how would that make your model appear and function then?

 

If you are intending to use this model as a learning platform....for the next model.....then why not begin your learning now.

 

Clipper ships were extremely specific and fit a particular type of use.  they were...in essence the epitome of sailing design.  Lofty masts....overly abundant canvas......sleek, nearly dangerous hull designs.  All precisely developed for speed.  Everything else took a back seat to speed.   You picked a good model to wet your feet on.  

She was a tiny thing....but is our only surviving example of the short lived design.

 

Good luck in your adventure.

 

Rob

[VitusBering]

Wow, Rob. Five times. That's something to look forward to. I am having the time of my life building this thing even though I'm making every rookie mistake possible and probably even inventing a few new ones. I already have a fair book of notes for next time.

 

Your build logs are an invaluable resource. Your work is beautiful. I will add the Flemish horses and footropes.

 

I joined the NRG because of my interest - even fascination - with clippers and windjammers. I completely agree they are the epitome of sailing vessels.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, VitusBering said:

Wow, Rob. Five times. That's something to look forward to. I am having the time of my life building this thing even though I'm making every rookie mistake possible and probably even inventing a few new ones. I already have a fair book of notes for next time.

 

Your build logs are an invaluable resource. Your work is beautiful. I will add the Flemish horses and footropes.

 

I joined the NRG because of my interest - even fascination - with clippers and windjammers. I completely agree they are the epitome of sailing vessels.

Yep..5 times.  Two were commissions, one a gift and the others  were my first(I got as a gift) and last(I built as a diorama, depicting her getting her new rudder after she lost it racing Thermopylae).

 

I hope my own work can be of any assistance and inspiration.  Big American clippers are my favorite...they were usually 2~3 times larger then their British counterparts.

 

Your mistakes will aid you well...for in them you will hone your attentiveness and skill.

 

I look forward to your progress.

 

Rob

[VitusBering]

The first half of my backordered paint shipment (white and a couple of shades of brown) arrived yesterday so I was able to get the masts painted and assembled. The second half (black, silk finish) has been shipped so it won't be long before I'm able to finally mount the spars.

 

On that note, I'm unsure whether to set the spars perpendicular to the centerline, or offset at an angle. The 1974 kit instructions show them set perpendicular and the 2017 kit instructions show these positions as optional but give no guidance at all about which to choose. I'm leaning toward an offset, what do you folks think?

 

[amateur]

Are there any sails on the model? Set 'square' looks a bit boring, compared to the more 'dynamic looking 'braced ons.

But set at an angle with sails, I have read (somewehere on this vast forum....) that the upper yards actually should be braced closer to the wind than the lower ones. If so an equal angle for all the yards is not as static/boring as the square setting, but it might trigger some comments of the type 'that your sail-handling it al wrong'

From a more practical point of view: the angled setting saves some space/glass for your glass show case.

 

Jan

[VitusBering]

I do intend to rig it with sails. Browsing the Longridge books it appears that you have the right of it - the upper yards are marginally more on the wind than the lower ones while under way. I'm not sure I'll accomplish that tiny difference between them but I don't believe it would be noticeable in any case.

 

I do agree that the angled offset does look better, and will mount the spars in that fashion.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, VitusBering said:

I do intend to rig it with sails. Browsing the Longridge books it appears that you have the right of it - the upper yards are marginally more on the wind than the lower ones while under way. I'm not sure I'll accomplish that tiny difference between them but I don't believe it would be noticeable in any case.

 

I do agree that the angled offset does look better, and will mount the spars in that fashion.

Setting your yard perpendicular to the masts was typical if the vessel was in port....without sails....to be well set and to make a good clean shipshape impression.

 

Setting them at any particular angle means the yards are following the wind.  Sails set on perpendicular yards is very rare....only if you are running with the wind.  Generally the wind is coming off the quarter, and the vessel is tacking.

 

If you plan on setting full sails...then cant the yards at a goodly angle to give the impression the sails are working the wind.  The hull's direction is irrelevant to the wind direction.  The wind could be coming from the East....but your heading is due North.  Generally why ships seldom sail a straight line....even when that is the direction they are headed.

 

Rob

Edited February 24, 2023 by rwiederrich

[VitusBering]

Thanks Rob. This should be a fun challenge getting it right.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

5 hours ago, VitusBering said:

The first half of my backordered paint shipment (white and a couple of shades of brown) arrived yesterday so I was able to get the masts painted and assembled. The second half (black, silk finish) has been shipped so it won't be long before I'm able to finally mount the spars.

 

On that note, I'm unsure whether to set the spars perpendicular to the centerline, or offset at an angle. The 1974 kit instructions show them set perpendicular and the 2017 kit instructions show these positions as optional but give no guidance at all about which to choose. I'm leaning toward an offset, what do you folks think?

 

   The 1:96 Revell CS has masts that one 'builds up', so I wonder why choose a given position and then bond (glue) the yards permanently in place?  I've seen a couple builds where the yards were modified so that can pivot - thus be adjusted as one re-thinks exactly what angle is to be depicted.  The rigging might even be made to function as to allow adjustments.  I have a suspended build to finish before I do anything new, but continue to read, study and look at other builds with great interest - which certainly helps to "learn the ropes".

[VitusBering]

That's an intriguing idea but well beyond my skills - I can't imagine rigging on spars that may change angle and therefore lengths and positions of myriad elements. The parts are certainly capable with minor modification, but I am definitely not up for it.

 

I have and will continue to study others' builds - they're incredibly valuable. I can't hope to match the craftsmanship in those builds, at least not in this round, but the learning experiences from this build will not go to waste.

[VitusBering]

Proof-of-concept test for a deadeye jig.

These are the two most common lengths in this model.

I'm not sure about the usefulness of the jig quite yet, it will be some time before I'll be installing deadeyes .

I'm just sort of tooling around waiting on paint delivery (early in the week, yay!) so I can get spars mounted.

 

Yet more foolin' around. A practice horse and stirrup on a scrap spar. The stirrup is a bit long but that's why we practice.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by VitusBering

[rwiederrich]

On 2/26/2023 at 9:40 AM, VitusBering said:

Yet more foolin' around. A practice horse and stirrup on a scrap spar. The stirrup is a bit long but that's why we practice.

 

Several things.   In many cases the flemish horse extends to the end or tip of the spar.  Note its *depth*.  The foot rope will need to be no *deeper* then the horse.

This is a mistake so many make on adding their foot ropes. They make the stirrups too long....thus making the entire foot rope assembly too *deep*....so that scale men would never be able to reach over the yard and furl the sail.  Note the image where the men are actually standing.   This is the proper lay of the foot rope....Not hanging far below the spar.

 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Example of the Flemish horse attachments..

 

 

Rob

[VitusBering]

Thanks for the clarification Rob. I'll make sure the horses are anchored at or near the end of the spar. I knew that test stirrup was too long, and mentioned it I think. The footropes will be appropriately shallow.

 

Oof, that first illustration. Way too close to having green water over the bow and those souls are in the rigging. It is a dangerous way of life.

[rwiederrich]

Wooden ships...Iron men.

 

I got a couple of mates on the ropes...one is taller then the other(for realism) ...but the scale is about rig

 

 

 

Rob

Edited February 27, 2023 by rwiederrich

[gak1965]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:02 PM, Ian_Grant said:

see her in the early 80's but at that time the foremast was unrigged and the bow was enveloped in scaffolding

Another instance of what my wife calls the "great scaffolding conspiracy", to wit, all the photos of man made things you want to see are always free of people and repairs, but when you go to see them, they are in some state of repair and at least partially covered by scaffolding.

[Ian_Grant]

...and/or surrounded by jostling crowds..........

[gak1965]

22 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Example of the Flemish horse attachments..

In the second photo (and it appears on the Cutty Sark) the stuns'l irons (and hence the boom) are below the yard, on Constitution, Pride of Baltimore, and Flying Fish, they are on top of the yard. @rwiederrich do you know if this was some American vs. British thing, or just individual preferences?

[gak1965]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:40 PM, VitusBering said:

The stirrup is a bit long but that's why we practice.

I make my stirrups from black fine guage wire. With thread, I find that the loop on the bottom is generally not heavy enough to make it hang neatly, whereas the wire hangs nice and straight and looks fine at 1:96 or 1:64. Also, I'm pretty sure that the stirrups and foot ropes hang from the jackstays. I wound up hanging them the same way you did here on my Revell Connie since there were no jackstays on the yards, but if you are going to put the jackstays on anyway, you might consider making the change. 

 

FWIW, I use annealed, black steel wire from Bluejacket. You can get that kind of wire all over the place, but I try to support companies that produce relatively unique things for ship modelers and every little bit helps.

 

Looking good!

George K

 

[VitusBering]

Thanks George. My jackstays are largely cosmetic.

They're made from .010 x .020 styrene strips attached to pins that Revell molded to the tops of the spars.

The pins are very small and offer no real structural support.

I'm going to make it look like the sails are attached to the jackstays but it will be a lie. (shhh, don't tell). 🙂

 

Letting the stirrups hang from the spars will be fairly historically accurate - perhaps not for this vessel but the period, at least.

I'm going to make them from rope - the test I've done shows that the rope (when stiffened) hangs just where I tell it to do.

The eyes at the end are marvelous little (and I do mean little) metal eyes from HISModel as part of the accessory package for this kit.

 

[edit] as an aside - I do plan to make another instance of this kit at some future time. I've been taking notes about what to do differently then and the jackstays are on the list along with a growing list of other changes.

Edited February 28, 2023 by VitusBering

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, gak1965 said:

In the second photo (and it appears on the Cutty Sark) the stuns'l irons (and hence the boom) are below the yard, on Constitution, Pride of Baltimore, and Flying Fish, they are on top of the yard. @rwiederrich do you know if this was some American vs. British thing, or just individual preferences?

You know....I noticed that on other ships as well.  I'm gathering it was a design preference.  Some ships mounted the stunsail booms on top or in front of the yard...while others *hung* the boom down low on the yard.

 

I wrestled with this when I built my Great Republic....and I discovered that her stunsail booms where hung below the yard.   I made the educated guess that gravity was employed to aid in the booms security.

 

Rob

[VitusBering]

In this kit, the lower stuns'l booms are below the spar and the upper ones are above the spar.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by VitusBering

[VitusBering]

Paint finally arrived day before yesterday. My spars have been painted and are now dry so I'll be adding Flemish horses and footropes prior to installing them on the masts. I've studied several build logs here and noted that a few folks add blocks and pulleys to the spars before mounting them but with my inexperience regarding the rigging of this ship I'll add those as they become necessary.

 

And Underhill's "Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier" arrived as well. That thing is a true gem.

Edited March 2, 2023 by VitusBering