HMS Beagle by Capella - OcCre - 2nd build

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Capella,

 

I didn't use the nails provided in the kit but preferred to use the clamp technique using small bulldog clips on the bulkhead and/or removeable noticeboard pins.  Not sure if the supplied nails should be left in or removed.  If they're left in then sanding down the planks once finished is very difficult.  If they are to be removed then they shouldn't be pushed fully home otherwise it will be very difficult to pull them out once finished.

 

Chimp

[Capella]

2 hours ago, The Gimps Chimp said:

Hi Capella,

 

I didn't use the nails provided in the kit but preferred to use the clamp technique using small bulldog clips on the bulkhead and/or removeable noticeboard pins.  Not sure if the supplied nails should be left in or removed.  If they're left in then sanding down the planks once finished is very difficult.  If they are to be removed then they shouldn't be pushed fully home otherwise it will be very difficult to pull them out once finished.

 

Chimp

Makes sense.

 

Thanks, Chimp

[ccoyle]

Here's another vote for ditching the brass nails. Use clamps, or if you need to temporarily pin something, use cheap push pins after drilling an appropriately sized pilot hole. The pins can be tapped in with a tack hammer.

 

[RossR]

I hate trying to sand/file off the nail heads.  I agree with Chris on the push pins, I avoid drilling the hole by placing the pin next to the planks and let the shoulder of the pin hold the plank.  

[ccoyle]

2 hours ago, RossR said:

I avoid drilling the hole by placing the pin next to the planks and let the shoulder of the pin hold the plank.

 

I should clarify -- I only drill pilot holes through first layer planking, i.e. through plank and into bulkhead, then pin as Ross describes. I've always used a combination of heat and CA to apply the second layer veneer -- no pins.

[Patrick B]

20 hours ago, Capella said:

Okay, I got the windows and doors, and the upper fore and aft decks mounted:

Next steps are to sand the false bulkheads near the upper decks in preparation for planking, bend and mount the gunwales (not sure if that's the proper name) and plank the gunwales.

 

A question regarding these steps:

Sorry. I can't seem to rotate the image on my phone.

 

Anyway there are nails provided with the kit. The pictured tool is a "pin pusher", right?

 

I looked for something similar on Amazon, but came up with a LOT of results - most of which weren't anything close to the tool in the image. Can someone suggest a good, cheap tool like that?

 

 

A small hammer?

[Capella]

Just a quick update on my progress:

 

I finished the fore and aft upper decks and got the bulwarks on. Now I'm ready to sand the bulkheads to prep for the first layer of planking.

 

The clamp is cause the bulwarks weren't flush with the upper deck, so I glued those and clamped them to keep them tight against the deck. I'll probably leave that for a day or two just to make sure they stay in place.

[Capella]

Okay, guys. Looking for some advice on how to address this this: So I've laid the first planks just below the bukwarks per the instructions, port and starboard.

Note how the extreme aft of the first plank on the hull is horizontal to the upright position, so as to be flush with the bottom of the stern.

 

The plans indicate to lay the next plank on the bottom of the bulwark, against and above the first plank on the hull, running straight aft -  not bending - along the existing upward curve of the bulwark (sorry the pic came out misoriented - I'm on my phone):

So, clamping a plank in that position on my boat, and bending it up a bit to shows what it would cover:

I mean, the bottom edge of that top plank just isn't going to be flush with the top edge of the plank below it.

 

My question is, should I just continue with it as is and when the planking is finished, plan on filling (with wood filler), spiling, and sanding the heck out of it?

 

Reading other Beagle logs, the thickness of the first layer of planks almost seems to be a good thing, as it leaves a lot of room for shaping the hull to a proper, usable shape for the second, final and layer.

 

It's just that extreme difference in the orientation between the two planks kinda got me wondering...

[RossR]

My Beagle took a lot of wood filler and sanding before the second layer.  I am very happy with the end result, but if you saw a picture of the first layer of planking you would not be impressed.  I wouldn't worry too much about the first layer.  You will need to fill and sand to get the shape right for the second layer.  A little more filler and sanding isn't a big deal.  That is the great thing about the double layer hull.

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  A wooden filler block of basswood (or even balsa) in the space between the last frame (bulkhead) and the keel astern that is faired would go a long way to preventing an 'acute' angle the plank wants to make over the last frame when there is nothing else to support it over the last gap where the curve is considerable.  Some go so far as to put filler blocks in all the gaps - but having them in the last couple of gaps fore and aft can be sufficient.  Wetting and heating the plank more in that area (plus a little 'pre bending') will make it behave better when applying to the hull.  You are not so far along that you can't put in end blocks, even if it means taking off a plank or two before proceeding.

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Capella,

 

When I did my first planking on the Beagle it looked absolutely appalling.  However, by the time I had filled and sanded the hull it didn't look too bad and I was quite happy with it.  My advice would be to allow the planks to follow a natural path without applying too much force to make it fit.

 

Looking at the last photo of your post I would say the top plank looks to be in the correct position. (maybe I've misunderstood your question)

 

Chimp

[Capella]

@Snug Harbor Johnny@RossR @The Gimps Chimp

 

Thanks for your input!

 

I figured as much: this being the first layer and the planks being so thick, I'll have plenty of wood to work with in terms of how much I can shape the hull for the 2nd layer - regardless of how the planks on the first layer lay.

 

Thanks, guys!

[Capella]

Okay, guys. I could use some input on this:

 

See these pics of my bow. The stbd side looks similar,  as you can see in the second picture.

I'm not sure if I did a horrible job of sanding the bulkheads or laying the planks or what, but as it is, I'm not sure what the best way is to address this mess that I created.

 

I'm wondering if I should scrap the whole bow section and redo it (I used PVA glue, so cutting them out carefully would be tedious but doable), or continue on and fix it with copious amounts of spiling, filler, and sanding.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Oh! Bonus points: I'd appreciate suggestions on where I might have gone wrong and how to avoid this in the future!

 

Thanks so much for keeping an eye on my build log!

Edited February 18, 2023 by Capella

[RossR]

You can fix it with woodfiller and sanding.   Sand it to remove wood where you don't want it then start with the wood filler.  I used Durhams rock hard.  I needed to put a couple layers of wood filler in some spots and quite a bit of sanding.  I wouldn't start over.  

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Capella,

 

I see your concern here.  I also had issues with my first planking if you look at my build log.  To me, it looks like some of those planks don't appear to be sitting flat on the first bulkhead.  As you get the planks closer to the bow not only do they bend in towards the bow (vertical plane)  but they also start to roll over in the horizontal plane.  A couple of the planks appear to remain vertical.

 

You could just use plenty of filler and sand it all to shape and that does generally work well for the first planking.  My concern would be that there may be some points where the inside of one plank sticks out further than the outside of an adjacent plank.  This could result in you sanding through an entire plank when trying to get the high-points down.  If you decide to go with the fill and sand method I would glue in thin slithers of wood between the planks where you have gaps to ensure there is plenty of wood there to provide strength to the structure.

 

Alternatively if you cut out the offending planks and reset them flat on the bulkheads that may solve your problem.  Don't worry about running short of the planks as I had enough to make two models.

 

Hope I've managed to explain my thoughts here.  It was clear in my mind what I was trying to say but maybe it didn't come out that well. (feel free to ask me to explain further)

 

Chimp

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Since its too late to have a filler block in that 'deadly' gap between the fist frame and the keel (you have too many first planks in place to go back), there is another approach you might try.  It involves pushing so-called wood putty down into the void and pack it in good with a dowel so that the putty completely fills the void and even 'bloops' or oozes out of the gaps in the planking.  You can also use a common product found in hardware stores known as 'plastic wood'.

 

  To help limit the amount of oozing, you cam apply blue 'painters tape' to the exterior to hold back the product bing packed inside.  Then allow plenty of time for a hard cure.  Removing the painters tape part way during the cure (the outside hardens first) will allow you to scrape away some excess on the outside.  Since there is some gapping in the planks between the first and second bulkhead, you might fill that void too.

 

  Once cured, you can continue planking.  Then when sanding down to fair the hull prior to the second planking - done with thinner wood that will conform more easily to the hull shape - even if you sand completely through one or more planks in places, there will be a substrate in place and not a void.  Just a thought.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[Penfold]

Hi Capella… it’s looking like a nice build so far, but you look to be having the same issue with the bow that I had. Whilst I did overcome it, it took an awful lot of filling and sanding, with more filling and sanding on top, so you will be able to recover it.

Us newbies seem really reluctant to trim our planks at the ends so that they follow a more natural line and lay flat to the bulkheads.

The advise given to me on my build log was to check out Chuck Passaro’s you tube videos, which I will be following on my next build. I’m sure it will save time and effort in the long run and give a better result.

Hang in there!

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Penfold

[RossR]

I sent you a DM with some links related to the Beagle.   Let me know if you have any questions. 

[allanyed]

Ahhhh Capella,

One of the nice things about a first layer is that you can practice proper planking techniques that will help with the second layer efforts.   Sorry to say this but I would remove all the planking and start over after studying various planking articles in the MSW database and watching the four part video on planking by Chuck Passaro.  You cannot get good results using edge set planks without pre-shaping them as shown in the video or spiling the planks from sheets of wood rather than using strip stock as shown in the article in the data base by David Antscherl.   Go to https://modelshipworld.com/topic/22975-chuck-passaros-planking-videos-where-are-they/ and scroll down to the second post to find the videos or find them online.   You will be amazed on how simple planking can be including no need for fillers.  

Allan

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by allanyed

[Capella]

It's been a few weeks since my last post. Partially due to life getting in the way but also largely because the thought of having to re-do a bunch of work was kind of a bummer so I have been putting it off.

 

But it's Saturday and there's a blizzard out here in Central Minnesota. A great day to fix my mess of a hull.

 

First, you guys have been great with your encouragements and suggestions. Thanks so much to everyone!

 

So, in my last post (#73) I posted some images of the bow and asked for suggestions. I decided that I would pull/cut off the offending parts of the bow and re-do them.

 

Here's an image from that post:

And here are a couple of pics of the aftermath of that process:

I made sure I left good surfaces to lay the planks and paid attention to how the curvature of the bulkheads will affect how I need to lay the planks.

 

Wish me luck!

 

P.S.

I've been keeping up with my contemporary Beagle builders, @Patrick B @Penfold and others. Very fun to see what I have to look forward to!

Edited March 11, 2023 by Capella

[Penfold]

Glad to have you along on my build Capella 🙂😉 and good luck with your second attempt at the bow planking

[Patrick B]

Hi Capella, just wanted to check in on you. Do you have any progress so far to show us? If not, maybe we could help you with overcoming a step you're stuck on. 

 

PS: I would glue a big chunk of wood at the fore in front of the first bulkhead, and then sand it. This could replace the need for a first layer in that difficult spot. Anyways, nobody would know what was under that second planking when done.

[Capella]

Hey, @Patrick Bt (I'm posting this on my phone, so, sorry if the "@patrick b" looks weird. It came out weird for me.)

 

Thanks so much for checking in! That's very kind of you.

 

We Minnesotans have a short summer, so we tackle the time with gusto. As such, the "shipyard" gets shut down for the season, and I'm out going to the cabin, going on canoe outings, doing yard work, etc.

 

I'll probably be picking up the project again in another month or so. I did make some progress from my last post back in March, so when I sit down again to work on it, I'll give a full update on my progress and how I plan to tackle my re-do of the mess on the bow.

 

Until then, thanks again!

[Capella]

Okay - I'm back!

In my last post (#80), I had torn off the mess that I made of the bow hull.

Here's what the hull looked like yesterday after redoing that and planking the rest of the hull:

I spent yesterday and this morning filling in all of the gaps in prep for filling (wood filler) and sanding. Here's where I'm at now:

 

So, my next step is to properly shape the planks to meet with the keel on the bottom, the transom, and each other on the bow. As you can see, I'm not adverse to using copious amounts of wood filler to get a nice smooth surface for the second planking!

 

As always, any tips and/or suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

 

That's all for now.

 

Till my next update...

Capella

 

 

 

Edited January 7 by Capella

[Patrick B]

Hi Capella, you asked for tips, so here are the most important things I learned while planking, especially true for second planking.

 

Start at the bottom and make your way to the top.

 

 Make sure that any previous plank are exactly the curve you want them to be.  Don't be afraid to take some more time to send the edges or else the small errors will end up being harder to correct afterwards. Think of it as a butterfly effect.  Here is an analogy to better explain. If you place a small pea on a table and lay several sheets of paper on it after a while the elevated area will cover more space than did the pea initially, causing some more trouble along the way.

 

Count the number of strips needed to cover the belly (the largest part) then measured the front bow section and divide it by the number of strips, to get the width of each strip. Start this process over after every 2 or 3 trips glued, make sure that the width is correct and that you won't end up with too much to lose at the top.

 

 If needed, use stealers although if you did the other steps correctly you shouldn't have to use them too much for example, I didn't have to, but sacrificed a lot of time because I edge sanded every strip to make them fit the previous one.

 

 Like I just mentioned try to make each strip fit exactly the previous one and make them in the process as straight as possible. Here is a drawing I made to illustrate this.

 

Finally, use CA (cyanoacrylate is the working agent examples : krazy glue, gorilla, Bob Smith industries) glue and press firmly a while to maintain pressure on the whole strip.  Unlike the thicker ones, these strips will elevate one side, the one where the bend is made.  To counter this effect you should narrow the end. Here is an example.

Instead, your strip should be tapered, to decrease the bending needed.

 

If you are unhappy with a plank,  correct it now or else later it'll be too late. In fact if you try sanding it afterwards, you risk going trought and revealing the layer underneath.

 

These where my top tips, hope this helped.

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Capella,

 

It's great to see you back working on the Beagle.  Your photos in your last post look very similar to my build.  At this point I was worried that it didn't look very good and was concerned as to how well the second planking would sit and how it would look.  As it turned out I had nothing to worry about, once it's filled and sanded it's all good.  Just be careful when sanding you don't go too far and sand through to the inside .

 

Patrick B has some useful advice above and I too had the intention of doing the second planking 'properly' However, I ended up not following any advice and just did my own thing and it ended up looking okay.

 

This is a link to that stage in my build log: Have a look at posts #55 and #61

 

My intension is that on my next build (HMS Granado) I'll do the second planking 'properly' and follow the technique detailed in this document:

 

plankingprojectbeginners.pdf

 

Looking forward to seeing your build progress

 

Chimp

[Capella]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:04 AM, The Gimps Chimp said:

Hi Capella,

 

It's great to see you back working on the Beagle.  Your photos in your last post look very similar to my build.  At this point I was worried that it didn't look very good and was concerned as to how well the second planking would sit and how it would look.  As it turned out I had nothing to worry about, once it's filled and sanded it's all good.  Just be careful when sanding you don't go too far and sand through to the inside .

 

Patrick B has some useful advice above and I too had the intention of doing the second planking 'properly' However, I ended up not following any advice and just did my own thing and it ended up looking okay.

 

This is a link to that stage in my build log: Have a look at posts #55 and #61

 

My intension is that on my next build (HMS Granado) I'll do the second planking 'properly' and follow the technique detailed in this document:

 

plankingprojectbeginners.pdf 1.9 MB · 1 download

 

Looking forward to seeing your build progress

 

Chimp

Thanks so much for the encouragement and advice, Chimp (and @Patrick Btoo!).

 

I'll take a close look at your posts before I start the 2nd layer. 

[Capella]

Okay - wood filler is done (I think). I included the wood filler I used in the picture, as I know I'm always curious what materials and tools people use.

Next, obviously, is sanding. I just finished the filler, so I'm going to let that sit for a few hours.

 

One thing I'm not clear on is how the planks are supposed to meet the keel at the bow. In the below picture you can see that I placed the bow piece temporarily to illustrate how I planked the hull, such that the planks meet up with the sides of the piece. Hopefully the circled area in my picture clearly illustrates what I did and what I mean. That is how it seems to me to be in the instructions pictures, but looking at a few pictures of that area in various build logs, how people did that area seems to vary slightly from one build to another.

 

My question is, should I sand down the 1st layer planks at the bow to meet with the keel itself - thereby exposing the "base" of that bow piece, then plank the second layer to meet with the sides of that bow piece, or should I leave it as is? Or is that even not really a critical detail?

Till next time!

Capella

[The Gimps Chimp]

Hi Capella,  when I fitted my keel I can remember it was recessed into the planking at the bow.  Looking at where you've circled the photo above you may need to extend the first planking a little (or use filler).

 

Chimp

[Capella]

1 hour ago, The Gimps Chimp said:

Hi Capella,  when I fitted my keel I can remember it was recessed into the planking at the bow.  Looking at where you've circled the photo above you may need to extend the first planking a little (or use filler).

 

Chimp

Thanks, Chimp.

 

Ewww. Extending the planking - however I choose to do it - might be a bit of a challenge

 

Was that how you did the planks along the entire length of the keel, bow to stern (The keel pieces recessed into the 1st layer planks)?