Caroline N by mbp521 - Scale 1:64 - Mississippi River Towboat

[mbp521]

Thank you Keith. I am definitely happy with the way the underside of the hull turned out. Lots of little details going on there that I am not used to.

I may have to look into installing a mirror under the hull once I’m finished. Right now my plan is to only have her sitting about an inch off the base, so I’m not sure how much would be visible in a mirror, but that plan can change. One never knows. 

 

I still think there were more photos of my progress that I had on my old laptop that I was not able to recover. Fortunately it died before I downloaded all of them off my phone so I managed to hang on to the bulk of them. 
 

- Brian
 

 

[wefalck]

I have a separate hard-drive for backing up everything (as I also use the computer for work) around once a month and I only remove images from the telephone, once I have copies on two independent devices ...

 

I was wondering about these rudders in front of the Kort-nozzles: do they move? If not, the boat would be quite sluggish to turn, I could imagine.

 

And: oh, yes, the project is coming on nicely !

Edited April 17 by wefalck

[Cathead]

Note to self: use a thesaurus to assemble a list of superlatives before Brian's next update. Or switch to a new language; I've always been partial to German's "ausgezeichnet" because just pronouncing it provides a feeling of accomplishment. 

 

I totally agree with Keith that the bottom needs to be visible somehow. You may not go this direction, but a great benefit of the larger display cabinet I had built for my models is that the multi-level glass shelving makes it easy to see the undersides, which is especially good for my  openly framed Bertrand's hull. It's also a lot more space- and material-efficient than a bunch of individual glass cases.

 

Also, as a fellow Mac user, welcome! One thing I particularly appreciate is the seamless coordination of photos (and other documents) between phone and computer, then up to iCloud storage, so I don't have to think about manual backups or worry about the loss of a device.

Edited April 17 by Cathead

[KeithAug]

17 hours ago, mbp521 said:

Well that is it for this update,

Quite an update Brian. Everything is looking really smart, your rails turned out really well. Fascinating rudder arrangement, although I am not quite sure why the designers took that approach. 

[mbp521]

7 hours ago, wefalck said:

I have a separate hard-drive for backing up everything (as I also use the computer for work) around once a month and I only remove images from the telephone, once I have copies on two independent devices ...

Thank you Eberhard, I have the same setup and keep all of my photos on a backup drive and generally back them up monthly. When I take pictures of my builds I put them in a different folder that contains all my research and other documents. I have to scale them down, otherwise the files are too big and MSW website will not upload them. Once my build is completed I save the entire folder on the hard drive as well to free up storage space. This folder is also backed up monthly. Unfortunately, my old laptop died before I could back it up and lost some of the pictures, but I was fortunate enough that most of them were still on my phone. 

 

 

7 hours ago, wefalck said:

I was wondering about these rudders in front of the Kort-nozzles: do they move? If not, the boat would be quite sluggish to turn, I could imagine.

 

36 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

Fascinating rudder arrangement, although I am not quite sure why the designers took that approach. 

Keith, Eberhard, this rudder arrangement is pretty standard on this type of towboat. They are called flanking rudders and are used to add maneuverability to the boats when setting up the tows and to help with navigating the twists and turns of the narrow, shallow rivers. They help the main rudders at times by providing sideways force to help swing the tows around, which can get to more than 1000' long. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Cathead said:

I totally agree with Keith that the bottom needs to be visible somehow.

I am definitely considering it. Since I am building this one for somebody else, I'll need to make sure that there will be enough room where he plans on displaying it. 

 

8 hours ago, Cathead said:

Also, as a fellow Mac user, welcome! One thing I particularly appreciate is the seamless coordination of photos (and other documents) between phone and computer, then up to iCloud storage, so I don't have to think about manual backups or worry about the loss of a device.

Going to a Mac was the best computer move I ever made. I wish I would have converted sooner. I've already filled my complementary iCloud storage and had to purchase more. Still worth it.

 

-Brian

[kurtvd19]

2 hours ago, mbp521 said:

 

Fascinating rudder arrangement, although I am not quite sure why the designers took that approach.

The flanking rudders move to aid maneuvering.  Water flowing over a rudder from the props is very effective in turning the boat (high velocity) while water flowing over the rudder in baking up and not from the props is very ineffective in steering (low velocity).  Thus the flanking rudders being ahead of the props work very well in controlling turning while in reverse.   The boat can move sideways when the flanking rudders are turned one way with the steering rudders (behind the props) are turned in the opposite direction with one prop in reverse and the other going ahead.  I can't remember the combination of port or starboard props in forward and port or starboard in reverse with the direction of the flanking rudders being to port or starboard and steering rudders to being to port or starboard, but both props and rudders must be set in opposite directions to move the boat sideways.

 

Pilots can do this in their sleep before they are entrusted to operate a towboat with barges.  I have spent a lot of time on towboats on the IL River when I was associated with the owner of the business and while I did a lot of steering on mostly straight parts of the river or gentle sweeping turns I would never have thought of asking if I could attempt a sharp turn where operating both sets of rudders and using reverse on one prop to aid turning knowing the pilot would absolutely not allow it.  Back then I was into R/C boats and had a twin screw towboat with steering and flanking rudders with individual motor control.  The towboat company had a real nice shallow pond adjacent to their office building and our Radio Control Model Boat club was able to enjoy operating our boats there.  I used to truly enjoy calling out to a Captain or Pilot and ask them if the wanted to operate my tow.  They all said yes without hesitation - the first time.  After a quick explanation of which control lever on the radio was the steering rudders with the other by default the flanking rudder, the port and starboard motor controls were very obvious which controlled the props.  On a 1:1 towboat the steering controls are horizontal levers that operate on a concentric pair of control rods to the rudders.  The engine controls are side by side levers with duplicate sets of motor controls on each side of the steering levers.

 

Like I said earlier all Pilots and Captains can make their boats move in any direction by combining steering and motor controls as describer earlier.  They don't have to think about forward/reverse/port/starboard.  But the simple fact that there  is a different R/C control layout than in any towboat caused them to screw up the simplest maneuver.  Most would hand me the radio and walk away after just a few minutes.  But most of them came back later because "no toy boat is smarter than me!"  We did have a lot of fun operating at the shipyard.

 

[mbp521]

Thank you Kurt for chiming in with that detailed explanation. Being a complete novice in this era of ships, I was only able to explain what I read about while researching the rudder design. I didn’t delve too much into the science behind it, but it all makes sense. 
 

I can only imagine the enjoyment you got showing up the pilots with the RC boats. I used to be into RC planes and it was a similar situation when actual pilots would show up to the model air fields thinking that if they could fly an actual plane, an RC one would be a piece of cake. I never had the opportunity to show a pilot up myself, but at some of the model air shows I attended I saw it happen more than once. Fortunately I never saw any of the attempts end in disaster. Most of the RC pilots only allowed them to fly with a trainer lead attached to their remotes. 
 

-Brian

Edited April 18 by mbp521

[wefalck]

Thanks, Kurt, these are interesting insights into the operation of such tow-boats. Of course, if these flanking rudders can move, they make perfect sense, when going backward.

 

This would be a classical application for Schottel-props, but I gather they may be too delicate for the shallow rivers full of debris. There is also a limit to the amount of HP they can bring into the water. Turnable pods with Kort-nozzles would obviate the need for all those rudders, but again debris might be a problem and the shallow draught needed.

 

In the early 20th century for working on shallow (central and eastern) European rivers systems, where the props worked in half-tunnels were developed. Some tow-boats also used early forms of water-jet propulsion to aid maneuvering and turning in tight bends.

 

 

[KeithAug]

8 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

Thus the flanking rudders being ahead of the props work very well in controlling turning while in reverse.

Ah! - that makes perfect sense.

[mbp521]

So I thought that I would give into peer pressure a bit and give the mirrors a try. I had bought a package of locker mirrors for my Cairo display and had a couple left over, so I used one here as a test. Since the hull is pretty hefty I didn't want to make it too top heavy, so I made up a base that is the length of the hull and slightly narrower and set the pedestals at 2" high. You have to get at the right angle to see the underside properly, and when viewing from the port side, only the starboard rudders and Korts can be seen and visa versa. However, when viewing from the stern, all the details are visible. With the black hull the lighting also has to be right to reflect upward and highlight the features. Apologies for the blurry mirror images, I could not get my camera to focus on the hull and the mirror at the same time.

 

Looking to get an opinion from everyone, should I go with the mirror or scrap the idea?

 

 

-Brian

[Cathead]

Absolutely. To my way of thinking, not only does it show off your workmanship more effectively, but it gives the viewer a better angle into something we otherwise never see in the real world (details below the waterline). If part of the goal of modeling is education (a core mission of the NRG), then given you've put the work into those normally hidden details, make them as accessible as possible! I'd bet the vast majority of people have no idea that's what towboat propulsion looks like, as opposed to a vague idea of some sort of basic ship's propellor like on the Titanic or something. 

 

As for proper lighting, pretty much everyone has a flashlight in their pockets these days, so it's not hard to get light to where it's needed. This is one of the reasons I haven't bothered running lighting into my steamboat models; it's so much easier just to point my phone light in toward the machinery if anyone wants to see it in detail. That and I don't like working with electronics but that's not the point!

[Keith Black]

 Yes on the mirror for the reasons Eric gave in his post above. IMHO a larger mirror (slightly larger than the width and length of the hull) would look better. Also, get a better quality mirror, one that's not so blurry.  

[gsdpic]

I agree, I like the mirror too.   Perhaps you already plan this, but any chance you can inset the mirror into the base instead of just having it sit on top?  Maybe with the help of the fancy new laser engraver?

 

[Cathead]

If cutting an insert into the base is too hard, Brian could also make a veneer sheet the same thickness as the mirror and cut the mirror shape out of that, which is almost certainly easier to do than routing out the base with a laser or regular router.

[mbp521]

Thanks Eric and Keith for the input, I feel like the decision has been made and adding the mirror it is.

 

Keith, I'll see if I can polish that mirror up a bit.  

 

10 hours ago, gsdpic said:

Perhaps you already plan this, but any chance you can inset the mirror into the base instead of just having it sit on top?  Maybe with the help of the fancy new laser engraver?

Gary, I hadn't thought about using the engraver to recess the mirror, that is a great idea, I appreciate the tip. It would definitely look better being flush with the top of the base rather than sitting on top.

 

-Brian

[FriedClams]

Very nice update on the Caroline, Brian.  As always, your modeling is clean, crisp and beautifully detailed.  Excellent!

 

Gary

[KeithAug]

Brian, I concur with the majority view, yes display the drives and hide the mirror edges.

[KeithAug]

Brian - you seem to have stopped. Has your light sabre blown a gasket?

[mbp521]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:03 AM, KeithAug said:

Brian - you seem to have stopped. Has your light sabre blown a gasket?

Ha ha Keith, the light saber is still functioning, but the laptop is not.  

 

I haven't had a lot of time to devote to the build due to work, life and other projects, but things have not been totally stagnant. My old laptop died on me a couple of months ago so it needed to be replaced. Well after 30 years of being a Windows user I finally had enough and made the change to a MacBook. Needless to say, there is a slight learning curve and it took a bit of retraining my brain, but I think I finally figured it out. My biggest hurdle was trying to figure out how to scale down the file size of the photos so they could be uploaded to MSW. This will be my first attempt, so if things run afoul, please bear with me.

 

I dug through all of my pictures on my phone that I have taken since my last update and I think I'm on track as to where I last left off, so here we go.

 

So starting off, I designed the window and door frames on my "light saber" (sorry Keith, it was too good not to use). These I made from gray card stock. The inner frame is just slightly engraved, to show the separation from the outer frame, but not so much that I had to install two pieces. I'm pretty pleased with the results on this.

Pilot house window frames.

 

 

Next, I drew up the plans for the tow knees. These plans included the stair stringers and risers, sides and bases. I used the engraving feature to allow an easier way to align each step as well as the front panel. It took a couple of tries to get my measurements just right, but I finally got it.

 

Here is the results after they have been cut out.

 

The first tow knee going together.

 

Here I marked the locations of the tow knees on the bow.

 

All of the tow knees constructed and temp installed to get an idea of how they are going to look.

 

While I pondered how to paint the tow knees up (really I just don't like painting that much, so I was looking for an excuse to put it off for as long as possible) I started work on the handrails along the main deck cabin. I struggled to get a good view of these from the pictures and videos that I researched but I think I came pretty close to getting it right. My main hang-up was how they were attached to the walls and how far they were located from the walls. I went with my gut that there was about a two inch gap between the rail and the wall given that on several locations you can see where the railing is bent around the downspouts that run from the deck above. The first picture is drilling the holes for the standoffs for the railing.

Here are the standoffs going in. For these and the railings I used 1mm styrene. I cut these a little long at first to give me enough play to trim them to the correct length and allow for some sanding to mate up to the railing a little better.

The first railing installed.

More of the port side railings.

 

Once all of the railings were installed, it was time to suck it up and start painting the tow knees. I didn't take any pictures of the painting process, because it was just painting. But here are the results.

Port view of the knees.

Starboard view of the knees, You can also see some of the completed railing on the main deck. Notice how the rail curves around the downspouts.

 

Finally, I did a little side project but didn't do a build log on it (it only took a week). This was a birthday present from the Admiral and our offspring. I'm still a kid at heart and I still love playing with Legos, so I thought I would share with the group.

 

Well that is all for now. My "other projects list" is starting to shrink so hopefully I'll be able to devote some more time to the build. I promise it won't be near as long before my next update. Hopefully this will keep everyone's interest for the time being.

 

Thanks for stopping by. 

 

-Brian

 

 

[kurtvd19]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:17 PM, mbp521 said:

Keith, they are 30,000 gallon tanks. So 60,000 gallons of fuel oil on board. At $3.959 per gallon that’s quite pricey.

Towboats do not pay the road use taxes (at least in IL) so the price is less than diesel at the gas station.  I don't remember how much less as the last time I was onboard when being fueled was several years ago and my  memory isn't what it once was.  It is still a heft sum though.

 

[kurtvd19]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:43 PM, Keith Black said:

And if you're facing a barge shortage, you just pile it higher. 

As long as you have adequate free board go for it!

[Keith Black]

 Great to see a project update, Brian. Beautiful work. The Lego Titanic is a kick in the pants, looks like a fun project. 

[Cathead]

Wait, the Lego Titanic doesn't come with an iceberg? Ripoff. Seriously, though, that looks loads of fun.

 

Update looks great. Love the crisp railings and excellent tow knees. Great to have you back. As a Mac user myself, welcome aboard.

 

 

Edited July 30 by Cathead

[mbp521]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Great to see a project update, Brian. Beautiful work. The Lego Titanic is a kick in the pants, looks like a fun project.

Thank you Keith. The Titanic was a fun project, and at 53” long it’s a monster. I had to put that one inside, my little shipyard just didn’t have the room to display it. I do have to say though, this build was a lot less messy.  😁

 

1 hour ago, Cathead said:

Wait, the Lego Titanic doesn't come with an iceberg? Ripoff. Seriously, though, that looks loads of fun.

Now you’ve got me to thinking. 🤔 I May just have to go buy a bunch of white and light blue bricks and build me an iceberg. Caroline N first. 🤣

 

-Brian

[Cathead]

9 hours ago, mbp521 said:

I May just have to go buy a bunch of white and light blue bricks and build me an iceberg

If you do, you're going to have to take a bandsaw to that model at, oh, about 30º...

[KeithAug]

Ah! the shipyard reopens. Welcome back to building Brian. Your lightsabre produces remarkably clean work, the windows in particular look wonderful. 

[mbp521]

Hello again everyone,

 

Finally back with a small update. This summer has been a crazy busy one on projects other than shipbuilding. I managed to steal away for a few hours over the past couple of months to get some work done, but not a whole lot. 

 

First thing that I was able to get completed was the AC unit installed. Not a big step, this part was completed way back when, but I am just now getting around to gluing it in place. I still need to add the support brackets, but it is place for now.

 

Next I was able to get the tow knee bumpers built and installed. It was only until I posted this picture that I realized that you can't really make them out due to the lighting, but they are there.

 

I finally took advantage of a rainy weekend (a rarity here in north Texas during the summer) and did some work on the lift booms. These are used to load and offload equipment, supplies and the Zodiac.

For the main support posts I started out with a dowel and cut the gussets and caps on my laser engraver.

Next it was on to the booms themselves.

I made up a simple jig to get the angles the same on each boom, then glued the pieces together.

Then I cut the gussets from some scrap ABS plastic that I had laying around and glued those in place.

 

The hinges were built and installed next. These were made from styrene tubing.

 

The other half of the hinges were made from aluminum materials I had leftover from my Cairo build and the hinge pins were temporarily made from scrap brass rod, leftover from the railing. I used the brass rod to help line up the hinge pieces while they were glued in place.

 

The brass rod was removed and replaced with styrene rod of the same diameter so that I could heat the ends to create the crown on the top and bottom of the hinge pin.

Both booms partially completed.

Next I stared work on the winches that are attached to the booms. These were made from several different sizes of styrene tubing. The largest tubing was slotted to make the opening for the cable, the smaller two pieces were used to create the winch hub.

I wrapped the hub with some rigging thread to simulate the cable wound up on the winch. I coated the thread with CA to hold it in place and give it a more steel cable like look.

Then I inserted the hub into the winch housing.

 

Then I made the hanging segment of the cable and used brass wire for the hook.

The whole assembly is temp installed on the boom to get an idea of how things will look.

 

It was time to apply a little primer to the boom assembly.

 

And the final product. I made up the wiring harness for the control box from some plastic coated wire and finagled it through all of the attachments on boom.

 

I started working on some of the deck details, such as the bollards and cleats, but I just couldn't get them to look right. While I was having a conversation with my son (while working on one of my other projects around the homestead) he mentioned that wouldn't it be easier to 3D print some of these deck details. Well after mulling it over I decided that he had a good point, that would be much easier. There have been a few build logs where I have read of people using 3D printers to create some of their pieces and I have used 3D printed parts on may past two builds so I looked into websites that sold 3D printed parts. Well, I was able to find a few pieces that I was looking for but I was somewhat worried that the scale wouldn't be just right and after shipping the parts weren't really worth it. So I did the next best thing, we invested in a 3D printer.  Now I can make anything and everything that I need for the deck features. Some truest may think this is cheating, but since most of this build has been created on my laser cutter, why stop cheating now. Besides, these printers and filament have gotten so cheap that we could make good use of it making toys for the grandkids along with model parts.

 

My first attempt at making life rings, barrels, cleats and trash bins.

So that is as far as I was able to get this time around. I still have a lot of work to finish up with on the property before the weather turns cold, but I'm hoping to find a few hours here and there (or another rainy weekend) to get more work completed.

 

I do appreciated everyone sticking with me on my extremely slow progress of this build. Until next time, thanks for stopping by.

 

-Brian

 

 

[Keith Black]

 Exquisite work, Brian. I'm totally blown away by how real the air conditioner and boom look, just amazing. 

 

 I buy fittings, blocks, bollards, cleats, windows, all manner of things. Is that cheating? Is it cheating for a modeler to buy ready made thread and then make their own rope? For a "purest" to make their own rope they would need to pick the cotton or scrunch flax and then tease the fiber off a wheel to make their own thread. Or grow and harvest their own wood or smelt their own metals. We're all dependent on suppliers to get materials and parts for our projects.

 

 I admire you for taking the step to 3D printing and for first efforts those parts look great. Let me know when I can place an order.

 

  Keith

 

 

 

[mbp521]

7 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Exquisite work, Brian. I'm totally blown away by how real the air conditioner and boom look, just amazing. 

 

 I buy fittings, blocks, bollards, cleats, windows, all manner of things. Is that cheating? Is it cheating for a modeler to buy ready made thread and then make their own rope? For a "purest" to make their own rope they would need to pick the cotton or scrunch flax and then tease the fiber off a wheel to make their own thread. Or grow and harvest their own wood or smelt their own metals. We're all dependent on suppliers to get materials and parts for our projects.

 

 I admire you for taking the step to 3D printing and for first efforts those parts look great. Let me know when I can place an order.

Thank you Keith for the kind words. After reading your reply, I realized that I never actually gave it that much thought that many of us are dependent on suppliers for some of the pieces and parts of our builds. I’m just somewhat eliminating the middle man in a way, and the creativity of designing and printing my own pieces is just my own method of building my models. I do appreciate the enlightenment. 
 

After purchasing the printer, I now understand that the cost for the 3D printed parts that I have previously ordered online is not so much in the materials, but in the design process (and equipment costs)that goes into the pieces. The quarter that I used for scale in my photo above covered the cost of material for all the pieces I printed with change leftover and only took about 20 minutes to print. So feel free to send me your order any time! 😁

 

-Brian

[Cathead]

So glad to see you're still dabbling away at this! Life has been keeping me away from modeling, too. Love the look of what you've done lately. I'm still not interested in getting involved in 3D printing but I agree that it's not necessarily any worse than buying detail parts from a supplier, and you're adding more personal creativity doing it yourself.