Strange sail. Literally.

[Martes]

Does anybody have any idea what the sail on the mainmast is?

It looks like an oversized jib.

 

[druxey]

Certainly looks like a headsail, Martes. The ship is being warped along and, to take advantage of the very slight breeze almost abeam, perhaps this is taking advantage of it. The main and fore yards cannot be slewed around far enough to take advantage of this. The mizzen topsail appears to be able to, but the crossjack yard must have been let loose from its parrel and is controlled by the slings. Possibly it is even lashed to the mizzen shrouds as well?

 

Where is this image from?

[Martes]

The original file was at Bonhams, I think, under the title "A frigate under tow down the Avon Gorge". But I can't find it now, not on the fly at least.

 

A very similar image, though, is on ArtUK site:

 

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/the-avon-gorge-at-sunset-188005

 

And is attributed to Nicholas Pocock.

 

However, when I look closely, it may be possible that the sail is not like a jib, but has a vertical cut forward and is additionally fixed to the foremast somewhere under the top.

 

So it begs the question - whether this was a standard sail supplied to ships for such situations, to emulate fore-and-aft rig (and how effective it could have been?) or this is a local captain's initiative and improvisation?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Martes

[Bob Cleek]

It appears to be a main staysail. This sail is a fore-and-aft rigged sail attached to the main-mast. It's the same as a mizzen staysail, but on the mainmast.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Martes]

It's kind of two times larger than regular main staysails, and is fixed not to the mainmast, but to main topmast.

[Martes]

Just now, SpyGlass said:

But not uncommon. 

I understand it's not uncommon now, lots of large yachts seem to use something of a kind.

But was it uncommon then?

[Martes]

Problem is this is about the only depiction I saw of such sail for the period, or I seriously missed something.

[Martes]

11 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

if you look at it its just like a gaff sail with a stay instead of a gaff.

Exactly, it's an enlarged spanker, not an enlarged jib as I thought initially.

[G. Delacroix]

This is the main topmast staysail, quite common at the end of the 18th century.

More visible here:

GD

[Martes]

I looked up that much (L below), but isn't it about 1.5 to 2 times larger than the regular depiction of it? Or should it be written off to artist interpretation?

 

[G. Delacroix]

Your example shows a triangular shape that indeed existed. For the period concerned (end of the 18th century), the size of the sail surprisingly increased until arriving at that which is illustrated in the drawing just above.. Towards the first third of the 19th century, it will return to a more reasonable size.
Here is an extract of the sail plan of a corvette, we can see the large surface of this sail.

 

GD

Edited March 15, 2023 by G. Delacroix

[Martes]

It still looks larger on the first picture, but it is close and could have been possibly enlarged.

 

Which corvette is the plan for, by the way?

[flyer]

It seems to be the topmast staysail. In the book 'Pandora' (by John McKay and Ron Coleman) of the ATOS series you find that plan of all the staysails. The topmast staysail is the largest of them and if you check where its corners are in relation to the masts it fits the sail in the painting - which is by the way showing an extremely interesting manoeuvre.

Thanks for sharing.

 

Cheers

Peter

 

[Martes]

Interesting, that on two versions of the image, the sail is of different size. On the graphical, first image, it's bottom is near where the lower, main staysail should end on the foremast, and it's upper end is closer to the main topmast, and on the painting from artuk it is more or less identical to the maintopmast staysail from the plans.

 

Interesting, how effective it would be - both under the circumstances and in general.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Martes

[druxey]

The first version posted, #1, was a little misleading as it is obviously a modern near-copy (although a nice one) of the original Pocock, post #11. The lower peak of the sail in the original proves that it is, indeed, the staysail.

 

This is a good demonstration of how secondary sources can mislead!

Edited March 15, 2023 by druxey

[Bob Cleek]

22 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

It appears to be a main staysail. This sail is a fore-and-aft rigged sail attached to the main-mast. It's the same as a mizzen staysail, but on the mainmast.

 

 

22 hours ago, Martes said:

It's kind of two times larger than regular main staysails, and is fixed not to the mainmast, but to main topmast.

Correction: "Main topmast staysail." It's a headsail with its head attached to the mast and its luff attached to the stay attached to the head of that mast.

 

The general sail naming convention is to first state the mast the sail is hoisted on and then the type of sail it is. This one, being attached to the stay, is a staysail. Beyond that, they come in all different sizes like any headsail and can be named whatever the captain wants, e.g.: "the big main topmast staysail," or the "main topmast genoa," and so on. In some instances, unusual sails acquire odd-ball names that become so popular that they endure, such as the "gollywobbler," a twin-headed light air reaching sail set flying from the fore and main mastheads of a two-masted schooner.

[Morgan]

Whilst Pocock was an ex-seaman and knew his naval subjects you have to be careful in placing absolute reliance on his works.  He was more than happy to ‘bend’ the details of his compositions to suit his patron’s requirements (see the article by Eleanor Hughes in ‘Spreading Canvas’).  There is nothing to say this happened with his painting above at post #11, but you then have the painting in post #1 which ‘stretches’ what Pocock produced exaggerating the sail size, which in itself stands as a case in point - don’t take as gospel any painting without corroboration.

 

Gary

Edited March 16, 2023 by Morgan

[Dr PR]

This type of sail was (is?) popular on American east coast fishing schooners, and some racing schooners and schooner yachts. But there it is called a "fisherman's staysail." And they come in all sizes, according to the Captain's or owner's wishes, with some having the tack and clew reaching almost all the way down to the deck.