Best Glue?

[Minnesota.Tom]

Back to basics.  It's been many years since I've worked on my ship. MS Constitution. Recommendations for glue on the market these days?

Thanks!

[allanyed]

Assuming you are speaking about wood, there are choices but the two most popular in our hobby are probably PVA carpenter's glue such as TiteBond and there are a lot of fans of cyanoacrylate.  If speed is your need, CA helps as it only takes a few seconds to start the bond, but it is has drawbacks just like anything else.  If you have respiratory issues, CA may be a problem and is not forgiving due to the fast cure time.  Carpenter's glue takes much longer, up to a minute, to hold parts together if they have been properly fitted together.  If parts have tension pulling them apart the parts need to be held to together longer so the PVA needs a lot more time.   For metal to wood epoxy is a good choice but the cure time is very long.   I am sure you will hear more from other members.  Try them all and see what works best for you.

Allan

[RossR]

My rule of thumb for most tasks is use PVA (wood glue) if I can clamp it.  If it is difficult or impossible clamp I use CA (superglue).  Lots of other things can be used for various specific applications, but you can get by with those two glues pretty easily if you have to.   

[Bob Cleek]

Where one requires strength, archival permanence, or both, I think that it is important to mechanically fasten model parts wherever possible. Sometimes such fasteners can be simple wooden pegs in the case of wood-to-wood bonds, and other times a metal peg is called for when a metal-to-wood bond is required. Metal-to-metal bonds generally require soldering. It should also be remembered that a part simply glued to any painted surface is bonded no more strongly than the strength of the paint film between the parts and that a paint film is generally not considered a particularly strong bond, especially when under sheer loading. (In other words, little parts glued to painted surfaces get knocked off very easily.)

[RossR]

I agree that adding some sort of peg is critical for small parts, especially if there will be shear forces.  As the surface area being glued increases the more comfortable I feel with glue only. Especially when using PVA.  

[Dr PR]

I use Duco cement for wood to wood. It (or something like it) has been around for as long as I have. I have wooden models that are 50 years old that were made with it and they are still firmly glued together. I do use PVA occasionally but I prefer Duco.

 

Duco contains acetone so it does have a slight odor. But it isn't as obnoxious as CA (cyanoacrilate) in my opinion. The acetone evaporates rapidly, so parts will bond together in about 20-30 seconds if not under stress.

[Bob Cleek]

I've had similar success with Duco Cement. It's just a very basic nitrocellulose adhesive. The nitrocellulose is dissolved in acetone which evaporates quickly upon exposure to the air. See: 14445 TN.pdf (tedpella.com) and ANSIMSDS.RDL (onboces.org) The dried cement is primarily nitrocellulose, which is also known as "gun cotton." It can be highly flammable when exposed to enough heat. 

 

Duco Cement is sold in one ounce tubes for as much as ten or twelve bucks an ounce. On the other hand, ordinary PVC pipe cement, which is quite similar to Duco Cement, can be purchased in four ounce cans for as little a dollar an ounce, or one tenth the price of Duco Cement, so one may wish to experiment with plastic pipe cement and see how they like it. Another similar option is "sprue goo." Some plastic modelers use "sprue goo" as a plastic adhesive and filler material. "Sprue goo" is simply cut up pieces of plastic model sprues dissolved in acetone or a similar solvent. There are a number of how to make it online. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Minnesota.Tom]

Thanks for the help guys. Duco Cement and PVC Cement are a new one to me. So I may experiment.

[Coyote_6]

If it's not too late to carry on this topic...

 

My model (plank on bulkhead) called for glue and tiny (brass?) nails, with the nail heads ultimately sanded off. 

 

To date I have been simply attaching the planks to the bulkhead and the preceding plank with PVA glue alone.  I am now considering the longevity of solely using the PVA glue (in abundance).  If it has taken me 20 years to build her, I would like her to last at least that long... 

 

I fully agree with the statement above, "where one requires strength, archival permanence, or both, I think that it is important to mechanically fasten model parts wherever possible".

 

But what I want to know is, based on experience, how long/well do PVA only plankings hold up over time?  

 

R,

Steve

[Roger Pellett]

I don’t know how  long PVA glue will last, but I have a POF model made using PVA glue and completed in 1982 that shows no sign of glue failure.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Coyote_6 said:

My model (plank on bulkhead) called for glue and tiny (brass?) nails, with the nail heads ultimately sanded off. 

I'd urge you to test sanding the heads off of brass nails before you go inserting them on your workpiece. Wood, being a lot softer, sands much more easily than brass nails. If you want to secure planking, you can drill holes and glue wood or bamboo "dowels" into the holes or, as some do, insert pieces of nylon fishing line into the holes. These options are more than adequately strong.  

[Coyote_6]

@Bob Cleek - some very interesting alternatives.  Never thought about fishing line!!

 

@Roger Pellett - very reassuring!

[Coyote_6]

I guess the better question is, has anyone seen PVA fail on its own over significant periods of time, or is it pretty well time-tested?

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Coyote_6 said:

I guess the better question is, has anyone seen PVA fail on its own over significant periods of time, or is it pretty well time-tested? 

Not me and I've been using it for going on fifty years or so. Of course, a museum professional will tell you it's not "Class I archival" unless it has a hundred-year life span and we can't know that just yet.  What you want to steer clear of is anything that "out-gasses" acidic fumes, especially if your model will be cased (as it should be if you think it is worth keeping.)  There are some very valuable articles in the "Articles Database" and "More" drop-down menus that every modeler would do well to read. These should answer your questions about materials longevity. Some consider obsessing about the archival qualities of modeling materials is a bit "over the top," and maybe it is. Everybody's mileage may differ, but for my money, I see all aspects of ship modeling as an exercise in striving to "do the common thing uncommonly well," or at least as well as I am able to do it. Especially if one is building from scratch, you never know whether your one-of-a-kind model might be of some interest to someone else after you're gone. It doesn't take any more money or effort to use materials that will outlast us, so why not do so? 

 

Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ephemeral Materials in Ship Models (thenrg.org)

Nautical Research Journal - Vol 43 (thenrg.org)

Nautical Research Guild - Article - Specifications for Construction of Exhibition Models of U.S. Naval Vessels (thenrg.org)

Planking Downloads and Tutorials and Videos - Model Ship World™

 

[Coyote_6]

@Bob Cleek  Thank you so much for the links to those articles.  You have saved me many troubles.

 

I had intended to get some lead shot for cannon balls.  Nope.

 

I was going to paint the inside of my bulwarks with water-based acrylic paint.  Nope.

 

PVA seems well regarded and stable. 

 

It was kind of Mr. Wegner to share his impressive expertise - what an interesting job!!

 

Great links Bob!!