druxey Posted January 31 Share #211 Posted January 31 As someone else has suggested, a tarred canvas 'boot' was fitted on the outboard side of the rudderhead between it and the rudder port. It looked rather like a bag hanging down to allow the rudder to turn unimpeded. It was called a rudder coat. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #212 Posted January 31 1 hour ago, druxey said: a rudder coat Thanks druxey @druxey I may have a go at making one and see what it looks like, a bit more research needed druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #213 Posted January 31 (edited) I have added a corner timber and I think it really helps to tidy up the stern area. I need to line them all up and glue in place. Edited January 31 by oakheart Thukydides, davyboy and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 31 Share #214 Posted January 31 8 hours ago, oakheart said: Now I am confused. I do not get the reference? I was thinking barrels of cognac, thus joining the smugglers. 8 hours ago, oakheart said: should I add two more in the corners, it would also hide that ugly gap. There would likely be six, they should disappear through the deck (or appear to). oakheart and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #215 Posted January 31 15 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: joining the smugglers. Ha Ha, I'm a bit slow on the uptake 😇 mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #216 Posted January 31 18 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: There would likely be six Thanks Craig @iMustBeCrazy that is a really good illustration, I have made and fitted just 4, it adds detail without getting too cluttered. Tim CiscoH and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 1 Author Share #217 Posted February 1 Today I did the stern grating, I used Chuck's @Chuck Cheerful version which is flush with the deck rather than Bills original version. I think it looks a lot neater. I am annoyed with myself, I had pencilled in bills original size for the grating, then gave the deck a coat of nonWOP. Of course the pencil now shows, I will have to try and sand it out and re coat I learn something new every day. Tim Gregory, davyboy and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 1 Author Share #218 Posted February 1 45 minutes ago, oakheart said: I will have to try and sand it out Thank goodness, a quick sand down with 400 grit paper a fresh coat of nonWOP and you can't ( well hardly ) see the join davyboy, mtaylor and Gregory 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 1 Share #219 Posted February 1 8 hours ago, oakheart said: Cheerful version which is flush with the deck rather than Bills original A raised grating to access the bread room was the norm with Cheerful being an exception, however she was later modified (ZAZ6472) so it must have been a bad idea. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 1 Author Share #220 Posted February 1 2 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: A raised grating to access the bread room was the norm OK, Ok I will change it to the real thing, how do you find out all this stuff................. Tim 🙂 mtaylor and CiscoH 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 1 Share #221 Posted February 1 1 hour ago, oakheart said: OK, Ok I will change it to the real thing Owner and Master. 1 hour ago, oakheart said: how do you find out all this stuff................. Curious I guess. We have just been discussing water coming up around the rudder so a flush grate sounded like a silly idea, you mentioned Cheerful so I looked at her drawings. The first indeed showed a flush grate but the second showed the alteration. Most drawings don't actually show grates (another of those "we don't show everything" things) however one that does is Tower, a tender for the transport of pressed men, which shows a grating which can be locked. And by the way, your grating does look nice. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 2 Author Share #222 Posted February 2 7 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: your grating does look nice. Thank you Craig. I agree it does seem totally impractical in use, but if I make the 'rudder coat' as @druxey suggested , my bread won't get too soggy. I do love this exploration, it's really incredible that we have realtime access to all of these records so we find find stuff out. Tim iMustBeCrazy 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 2 Author Share #223 Posted February 2 So enough of being cheerful, back to speedy..... Here is the scuttle with a raised grating. I know it should have a half lap joint at the corners, but I found it difficult enough to get this made. How do you all work this small? I know 1:48 is not that small, but getting things square is a problem for me. The hires Danish archive drawing shows some sort of moulding or profile round the top, not sure how to deal with this? Tim Gregory, Thukydides, CiscoH and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintergreen Posted February 2 Share #224 Posted February 2 Looking good Tim! About getting things square or any other intentioned angle, people here utilize jigs for almost everything. Put some time into a jig, make it to desired spec, and then build your piece. Especially if there is more than one item to do, this way is beneficial. Keep it up! mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Happy modelling! Håkan __________________________________________ Current build: Atlantica by Wintergreen Previous builds Kågen by Wintergreen Regina by Wintergreen Sea of Galilee boat, first century, sort of... Billing Boats Wasa Gallery: Kågen (Cog, kaeg) by Wintergreen - 1:30, Billing Boats Regina - 1:30, Billing Boats Dana, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 2 Author Share #225 Posted February 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wintergreen said: people here utilize jigs for almost everything Hi Håkan @Wintergreen thanks for the praise. I can see how jigs are useful, the problem is making them accurately. Thinking about it, I do have a 3D printer, I shall do some research to see if there is anything already done. If there is nothing suitable, I could try and design something in Fusion 360 then print it. A lot of people talk of using LEGO bricks, I shall have to raid my granddaughters collection. Tim Edited February 2 by oakheart CiscoH, Wintergreen and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 8 Author Share #226 Posted February 8 (edited) Working on the companion way, I was not sure which drawing to go with. Bills shows this bills Danish archive this shows doors are not square, I went with this, it looks a bit odd. needs cleaning up and a skirting added round the base the hinges are just black paper but do allow the doors to open ( I just noticed the doors are hinged on the wrong side ) does not look bad in place on deck Having run out of suitable cedar I used some of the maple deck planks, it does not give a good finish, I may just remake it. Tim Edited February 8 by oakheart mtaylor, Gregory and CiscoH 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 8 Share #227 Posted February 8 (edited) 14 hours ago, oakheart said: Working on the companion way Tim, this is a bit of a tough one. I did a bit of experimental archaeology (masking tape outline on floor) and unless the roof opening is at least 18" (and I mean absolute minium) I would have trouble getting in in a reasonably dignified manner (admittedly I'm not a flexible as a young commander). As it is I suspect the normal method of entry would be to sit on the deck with your legs over the coaming and stand on the ladder two or three rungs down. But contemporary models show you're most likely on the right track. I would suggest it was built over a hatchway with a raised coaming just like the bread room one but with no grating, square to the deck not the keel as drawn, it may slope down to port (or may not) to assist draining, tight joints to reduce leaks, it may have a small gutter under the hinge, it may be glazed on at least one side. Alternatively it may have a half sliding roof. Of course I may be completely wrong. This might give you an idea as to how small it is although this one is lower than that on Speedy: Edited February 8 by iMustBeCrazy mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted February 9 Share #228 Posted February 9 Can you say where this painting is from and a date? Looks about 1830 to 40 to my eye. oakheart and mtaylor 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 9 Share #229 Posted February 9 16 minutes ago, druxey said: Can you say where this painting is from and a date? Looks about 1830 to 40 to my eye. Pretty good guess, https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-15591 druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted February 9 Share #230 Posted February 9 Thank you, Craig! iMustBeCrazy, mtaylor and oakheart 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 9 Author Share #231 Posted February 9 (edited) 8 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: This might give you an idea That is a useful image, shows all sorts of things, even with artistic licence they drew what they saw. Love the rug at the companionway entrance. The open grating caught my eye, alway thought they were one piece. with the companion way, as far as I can make out is shown on the plans with a hinged half lid that flaps back. Thinking more about it, placing the doors on the side and having those crazy trapezoid shaped doors makes even less sense. The plans show the steps running fore and aft in line with the ship. I need to look at some more contemporary models. Tim Edited February 9 by oakheart mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 9 Author Share #232 Posted February 9 (edited) Here is another of a cutter yacht "Ganymede" of 1870 by the same artist Nicholas Matthew Condy https://www.mutualart.com/Artwork/The-R-Y-S--cutter-yacht-Ganymede--with-t/0861A8BC3D3D2429 it shows a head popping up the companionway with loads of other good detail. Once I started looking there are other paintings, the next one clearly show the lid hinged sideways and the windows that Craig @iMustBeCrazy mentioned. https://www.meisterdrucke.ie/fine-art-prints/Nicholas-Condy/825579/The-Yacht-The-Guernsey-with-her-Owner-and-his-Family-and-Crew-Aboard.html How she got down the companionway in that dress we will never know. Tim Edited February 9 by oakheart CiscoH and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 9 Share #233 Posted February 9 51 minutes ago, oakheart said: Thinking more about it, placing the doors on the side ZAZ6430 also shows them on the side and covers Fancy, Kite, Racer and Sprightly. Speedy is also mentioned. The Vigilant class opens aft. 26 minutes ago, oakheart said: How she got down the companionway in that dress we will never know. Head first like a shuttlecock? I'll do some enlargements of your paintings. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 9 Author Share #234 Posted February 9 2 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: ZAZ6430 also shows them on the side I agree, they really did do it that way, my dilemma is how did they actually make the doors. should they be trapezoid and hinged oddly as I have done, or ? I need to research 18th and 19th Century wood work now. As used on ship of course. I am going to remake the whole thing in cedar, just building a dedicated thickness sander from scrap parts first. Tim mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 9 Share #235 Posted February 9 14 minutes ago, oakheart said: my dilemma is how did they actually make the doors. should they be trapezoid and hinged oddly as I have done, or ? As I said, I'd just make the whole thing square to the deck. The shuttlecock is sitting against a skylight, the companionway is forward of that and has a sliding roof. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 9 Author Share #236 Posted February 9 3 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: The shuttlecock is sitting against a skylight Ah yes, I see that now. 3 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: make the whole thing square to the deck That makes the most sense, I will do a new version like that. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted February 9 Share #237 Posted February 9 You may have already been there, but in the Gallery under “Contemporary Models “, page 2, there are several cutter models. You might get some different ideas about companion ways. oakheart, iMustBeCrazy and mtaylor 3 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 9 Share #238 Posted February 9 7 hours ago, Gregory said: in the Gallery under “Contemporary Models This Brig (original photos by Larry Van Es) looks close to me. Gregory, mtaylor, oakheart and 1 other 4 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted February 10 Share #239 Posted February 10 A couple of possibilities, the first built on top of the hatch coaming the other surrounding it. I think the latter is more likely based on drawings and models. mtaylor 1 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted February 10 Author Share #240 Posted February 10 (edited) 11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: looks close to me. Thanks Craig @iMustBeCrazy I agree that would be a good example to copy, I will draw it up to scale. edit: - you have already drawn it 🙂 I did look again at all the cutters that tony @tkay11 photographed but none looked similar. Tim Edited February 10 by oakheart add note on crossed messages mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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