Mounting a rudder

[Stevinne]

I was wondering if anyone had tips for mounting a rudder. I always find it difficult to get the pintle to slip into the gudgeons - there is usually little clearance between the two. I was thinking about positioning the gudgeons below where they need to be and them sliding them up before making them fast, but that seems more work than necessary. I'm sure someone must have an easier way.

 

[Bob Cleek]

A lot depends upon the scale of the model and the details of the sternpost, gudgeons, pintles, rudder. Those variables are going to determine the best solution for fastening.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "there is usually little clearance between the two." There shouldn't be any clearance between a gudgeon and a pintle when the pintle is slid down into the gudgeon. Maybe a picture would be a big help.

 

If the gudgeons are attached to the sternpost and the pintles to the rudder in the same manner as in full-size construction, the rudder should slide right down with the pintles sliding right into the gudgeons. The pintles should be sized to match the gudgeons. Sometimes it helps to file the tips of the pintles a bit round to get them sliding into the gudgeons easily. Like any hinge mounting, a good fit is going to demand that the positioning of the pintles and gudgeons are accurate.

 

Alternately, you can always attach the gudgeons to the pintles and then mount the rudder to the rudderpost using the pintle tangs glued to the rudderpost (and preferably pinned to the rudder post, if your scale permits.  Another approach is to "fake" the pintles and gudgeons mounted together on the rudder, wrap strips of paper where the gudgeon tangs should go on the rudderpost (or a bit of copper strip, depending on what suits the scale, then drill and glue pegs into the forward side of the gudgeons and drill holes through the tang on the rudder post and glue the rudder to the post with the pins in the holes. That will give you a rudder fixed to the rudder post with invisible pins or pegs which appears like the rudder is hung on the gudgeons. And again, you can dispense with the separate pintle and gudgeon entirely and just take a bit of dowel or rod the length of each pintle and gudgeon and score a line around its circumference at the middle. Attach your faux tangs for the pintles and gudgeons, glue the "pintle + gudgeon" pieces to the rudder, drill a hole through them into the rudder, glue a pin in that through into the rudder and then drill holes for the pins in the rudder post and glue the rudder in place. That should in smaller scales give you a neat appearing rudder attachment that is quite strong. Keep in mind that rudders are one of the more vulnerable parts of a model and are prone to getting whacked when the model is being worked on or moved. The stronger the attachment the better!

[allanyed]

8 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

If the gudgeons are attached to the sternpost and the pintles to the rudder in the same manner as in full-size construction

Totally agree.  If done this way I have never had a problem sliding the rudder in place.  A number of kits provide the hardware but some are way out of scale so may be this is part of the problem.   You may find some useful information from the below example from the original contract  for Elephant (74) 1786 for that particular size vessel.    Picture and a 1000 words, etc. showing the rother of the Elephant below

 

ROTHER                       The Rother-head to be made long enough to receive a Tiller above the Upper Deck, to be strapped and hooped with Iron as usual, to be 2 feet 2 inches Thwartships: Fore and Aft 2 feet 4 inches, and 5 feet 6 inches broad at the lower End, and 4 feet 6 inches at the lower Hance height above the Deck as the Draught shall Direct. To be well made, the Pieces tabled to each other, and all but the Main and Bearding Pieces, to be Fir.   To have 7 Pair of Rother Irons, the upper brace to have long Straps, that may turn and meet round the Post.  The second Brace 4 feet 6 inches long from the Rabbit, the lower one from the Back of the Post 7 feet; to be hung Flemish Fashion, and well secured with Chocks above Water to prevent its unhanging.                                                                                                                 The Pintles to be 3⅜ inches diameter, all of them to be 1 foot 1½   inches long, except the lower one, that to be 1 foot 3½  inches long; the Straps of the Rother Braces and Pintles to be 4½  inches broad, and 2 inches thick in the Shoulder of the Return, and to have an iron strap on the Back of the Rother, and a Ring Bolt with two Rings by 1⅞ inches diameter drove through the Rother; the Rings of sufficient bigness; and to have an Eye bolt on each Side at the Ends of the Wing Transom, with Bolts of 1¼  inches diameter for the Rother Tackles, that all, both Braces and Pintles be carefully let in, that the Irons bear an equal Strain, that every Pintle and Brace have Bolts in the strap as close to the Shoulder as may be, drove through with a Saucer-head, and well clenched on the other side, the hole for the Tiller in the Rotherhead to be cut both that above & below the Upper Deck of equal bigness, square on the foreside 11⅛ inch on the aft side 10 inches that the same Tiller may fit either hole.  The Bearding of the Rother, between the Pintles and Back of the Stern Post, to be covered with Lead turned and nailed on the Sides; also to Lead the Helm Port, as is done in His Majesty’s Yards.

 

[GrandpaPhil]

I pin (with steel pins glued in place) my rudders to the rudder post and fake the iron banding with pieces of card.

 

It prevents them from moving and thus getting broken in the future.

Edited June 27, 2023 by GrandpaPhil

[Keith Black]

 Here's he latest Tally Ho YouTube video, you can view how hanging a rudder is done in a real life situation. 

 

 

[allanyed]

Thanks for posting this video Keith.  VERY nicely done.  Time to go to their earlier segments.😀

Allan

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Time to go to their earlier segments.

 I've been following since day one and I'm in awe of Leo's abilities and dedication to getting the Tally Ho back in the water as good or better than the first day she sailed long ago. There are no half measures to work that's been done on the Tally Ho, what's been done is first class. The planking was/is a great education of how to. 

[dafi]

Thank you Keith for the video. This also nicely demonstrates the use of the 2 holes in Constitutions rudder 🙂

PS: Strange the link ends on Page 1 entry #1. Please refer to Page 38 entry #1140 🙂

All the best, DAniel

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by dafi

[dafi]

And here a scale bigger on Hermione, from their FB site 🙂

 

 

XXXDAn