USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[usedtosail]

Very good work so far. I will definitely follow along your build log.

 

I used a combination of lathe and mill to shape the bow sprit. I think you should be able recreate the process with hand tools but it will take longer.

 

As for the bulkhead extensions, I did exactly what you suggest - adding small strips to even them out. You should try to get the widths between the inner and outer planking as even as possible, because you will see that distance in the sides of the gun ports.

[Der Alte Rentner]

I'm doing exactly that.  I've been out of the shop for a while dealing with family issues.  As these are wrapping up, I'm getting back to work...

[Der Alte Rentner]

[Unegawahya]

I’m building the same kit and I painted mine and I can say that I still find places where I’ll look at it and say “how the hell did I mis or mess that up!”

[Der Alte Rentner]

You're working on the pull-out table on your desk?  Holy Mackerel!

 

 

By the way, Welcome back...

Edited August 31, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
added a sentence

[Der Alte Rentner]

Edited September 3, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
added another photo

[Unegawahya]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:59 AM, Der Alte Rentner said:

You're working on the pull-out table on your desk?  Holy Mackerel!

 

 

By the way, Welcome back...

Yes I use my pullouts on both sides at times. My hobby desk is a roll top desk. It keeps the cats and little one from all the tools and paints and it conceals the general mess that my desk turns into when I’m working.

[JSGerson]

I just discovered your build log in the past couple of weeks due to your comments on UsedtoSail's log. As I started to read your log, it seems you found me first, crediting me with pointing you to Mr. Robert Hunt's practicum. You had listed a number of build logs that you were following, but I was surprised you did not list (or maybe you haven't discovered) Ken Forman's (xKen) build log. Ken is a professional model maker and kit designer. He designed the Model Shipway's USS Constitution Cross Section model. His is a worthy log to read.

 

I am curious though, are you posting on two build logs? I ask this because your posts on this site are pdf files from another document. You are the first one I've run into using pdf files. I mirror my ModelShipWorld posts on ModelShipBuilder.

 

Looking forward to your future posts.

 

Jonathan

 

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

I just discovered your build log in the past couple of weeks due to your comments on UsedtoSail's log. As I started to read your log, it seems you found me first, crediting me with pointing you to Mr. Robert Hunt's practicum. You had listed a number of build logs that you were following, but I was surprised you did not list (or maybe you haven't discovered) Ken Forman's (xKen) build log. Ken is a professional model maker and kit designer. He designed the Model Shipway's USS Constitution Cross Section model. His is a worthy log to read.

 

I am curious though, are you posting on two build logs? I ask this because your posts on this site are pdf files from another document. You are the first one I've run into using pdf files. I mirror my ModelShipWorld posts on ModelShipBuilder.

 

Looking forward to your future posts.

 

Jonathan

 

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

I'm new to the site, and relatively new to model ship building in general.  Before starting the USS Constitution, I pored over Model Ship World looking for as much information as possible before committing to the project.  Had I not learned of Bob Hunt's Practicum, I would not have attempted this at all.  So, thanks for steering me to a resource that's helping me work through the build.   

 

I will look for Ken Forman's build to see if I can glean more useful information there.  (Example: I'm hunting down pictures of the main rail today, trying to figure out if my gun port bulwarks are not too fat (plank+bulkhead extension+plank) to accommodate the main rail later.  I just learned that Mr. Hunt had me cut off the tops of those extensions a tad early, opting to use toothpicks and a drill later to deal with the planking ABOVE the main rail. He certainly has some novel approaches to things..)

 

As for the pdf's.  I plan to print the entire build log when this project is finished.  I started in Word, but soon learned that I could only post text and jpg files here at MSW.  So, painful as it is, I maintain the log in Word, export it to PDF, and from there convert to jpg files to accommodate MSW.  Believe me, I'd be happy to find a simpler method of posting the build log here.   I am not familiar with ModelShipBuilder.  If that site offers the possibility to make my life easier, that would be great.  

 

One reason I continue to work in Word is that I crop and edit the photos I use in the log.  I don't want to photoshop every picture before posting, so the crop feature of Word is a time-saver and helps me put together a nicer looking log - again, because at some point I will print the whole thing and give it to my son along with the model.

 

Thanks for your interest, and the great leads.

 

Best

 

Der Alte (aka Peter)

[JSGerson]

Like you. I did a lot of research and as you read my log, you will find that I rely a lot on the US Navy plans which you can still download for free from the US Constitution Museum. The collection of plans is not complete and range in dates from the 1800s to recent times.  The MS kit is based on the 1927 restoration so if you follow the kit faithfully, it won't look exactly like it is today after the 2017 restoration, which what I'm making.  Also I've built up an extensive library of images (approx. 4,000) so if you need a view or a "better" view of something, there is a good chance I may be able to help.

 

I write my log in Word as well, but crop, group, and annotate images in PowerPoint. I group the final picture if there are multiple images, then "save as picture" as a png file. The text is simply copy and paste straight from Word into the online log. 

 

Mr. Hunt is an excellent builder but he has his quirks. I followed him fatefully for my first square rigger, the Rattlesnake and found that as I progressed into the practicum, he started to cut corners or did not address certain details. He stated that he is the first to admit that his way may or may not be the best way to do something. His practicums are like a diary written in real time, so if he makes a mistake, you will make the same mistake until he tells you oops, have to do this over later in his instructions. If something is not clear, check other builds to see how well they handled the problem. I am using him as a suggested guide for my Conny. As you read my log, I inform the reader when I'm deviating from the practicum and why. Two big deviations are I am adding the gun deck interior (scratch built) and have removed the topgallant rail (the one above the top rail) which was added in1927 but found to be not accurate to the ship so it was removed in the 1970s I think. The ship is a chameleon and changes its look over time, so if you haven't decided what era your model is representing, now is the time to choose.

 

Jonathan

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:13 PM, JSGerson said:

His practicums are like a diary written in real time, so if he makes a mistake, you will make the same mistake until he tells you oops, have to do this over later in his instructions. If something is not clear, check other builds to see how well they handled the problem.

Exactly what I noticed.  That's why, like you, I look ahead as much as possible to try to spare myself the agony of the same mistakes, and why I peruse this website constantly in search of tips, techniques, and pitfalls to be avoided.

[Der Alte Rentner]

 

I really would like to know why jpg files generated by Adobe Acrobat from my personal build log render so poorly at this site.  

I'm setting Adobe Acrobat up to export to 600 dpi.  You'd think I'd get better results here.   The first photo below was uploaded directly, and you can zoom in quite a bit for better detail.  I don't want to give up the format I use for my own build log, but the hassle involved in going from Word to PDF to JPG is a PITA!  Going forward, I may skip the conversions and just cut and paste the text from Word to here.  That would be followed up with uploads of uncropped photos.  

 

My regular post follows that first photo.

[targa4403]

42 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

 

Hello.  I am a little confused by this image showing 3/64 with varying heights(page 112).  I thought the drawings were 1:1 scale to the model or am I incorrect?

Edited September 11, 2023 by targa4403

[Der Alte Rentner]

41 minutes ago, targa4403 said:

Hello.  I am a little confused by this image showing 3/64 with varying heights(page 112).  I thought the drawings were 1:1 scale to the model or am I incorrect?

My thoughts exactly!  The plan is 1:1 scale to the model.  That's why I'm confused by the gunport measurements on the plan vs. the text on the plan, that I interpret to mean, use 3/64" planking.  Am I misreading the plan and the 3/64" means something else?

[targa4403]

12 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

My thoughts exactly!  The plan is 1:1 scale to the model.  That's why I'm confused by the gunport measurements on the plan vs. the text on the plan, that I interpret to mean, use 3/64" planking.  Am I misreading the plan and the 3/64" means something else?

oh i see what you are saying.  if you look at that drawing, it could be interpreted to mean 4 planks of 3/64" are required for the width of the ports.  I have the kit  but it's buried inside my closet.  What I was thinking is I would take the two pieces that make up the port lid and take measurement of the total width. 

[Der Alte Rentner]

2 hours ago, targa4403 said:

oh i see what you are saying.  if you look at that drawing, it could be interpreted to mean 4 planks of 3/64" are required for the width of the ports.  I have the kit  but it's buried inside my closet.  What I was thinking is I would take the two pieces that make up the port lid and take measurement of the total width. 

good idea.  a little late for me, but that would be a good way to confirm the height of the gunport.

[Der Alte Rentner]

While I continue to write my personal build log in Word, I think I'll save myself the hassle of the three step process to post here.  I'll be cutting and pasting the text from Word and following that up with pictures like everyone else...

 

2023 Sep 13

Missed a detail in “Finishing the Plank Shear” 

 

I didn’t read carefully enough the instructions on page 6 in chapter 3 of Bob Hunt's Practicum.  It clearly stated, "Finish the filler pieces by adding them from bulkhead F to B..“.  Clearly, as evidenced by the photos below, I did not stop at bulkhead B. So, now I’ll have to do a little surgery on the bulwarks between bulkhead A and B to make room to install the catheads. Oh well.  That doesn’t seem like a biggie.

 

Apart from that, I did finish the spar deck and stern gun port framing and planking.  Also found techniques to assure the heights of the openings were consistent and roughly parallel to the deck.  I cut some plywood strips 3/8” wide and positioned these in the port openings on bridging the width of the hull.  

 

 

 

I also finally added the transom extensions.

 

 

A lot of sanding, and testing with wood strips to make sure the bulwark tops would easily be covered by the main rail.

Time for a photo op to appreciate the work done so far.  Then on to the cathead and lower gun ports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking a break for a few days to catch up on other stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
minor text revisions, and inserted missing photo.

[woodartist]

This looks really good! I am glad you are ahead of me on this build. I almost completed the waterways today will start the planksheers tomorrow. I keep reading your log to make sure i have not missed anything. Keep up tyhe freat work, I am always looking in on your progress.

[Der Alte Rentner]

I'm struggling a little with the catheads.  Would someone who's gotten to that part of the build please show how you went about getting them in?

 

1. Did you shape the catheads to fit the waterway and plank sheer?   or

2. Did you shape the waterway and plank sheer to fit the catheads?

3. Did your version of the kit come with the lion's head cap that is supposed to sit on the outer end of the cathead?  

 

I reacquainted myself with the use of my drafting table and made a scale drawing of the waterway, plank sheer, bulkhead and bulwark planking.  To this I tried to see how the plan's version of the cathead should fit.  Frankly, it doesn't.  

 

The Hunt Practicum and the plans say to make the waterway out of 5/32"  x 5/16"  stock.  Well and good, but missing from the Practicum is a note saying to trim the inner edge (the part to which the deck planking will abut) to a width closer to the plan's drawings. I thought that perhaps the excess material not having been pruned from the waterway may have led to Mr. Hunt's approach in shaping the cathead in Chapter 3.  

 

My scale drawing disproves this theory (slightly).  I need to get the photos off of my phone to post them here, which will happen later today or tomorrow, but I can tell you that it seems that the drawing of the cathead, and therefore the laser-cut components in the kit, are off the mark.  

 

In my case, shaping the cathead to fit the plank sheer and waterway resulted in disaster.  I did however become quite adept at making replacement parts from the same stock but, no matter what I tried, these did not fit properly.  I suppose I could have left gaps between the components and filled them with putty later, but I opted to make a cardboard template that fit the space and fabricate new parts from that template.  The results were much better, though I had to make three parts because the original broke while cutting out slots.  In the end, I ditched all chisel types of tools (Xacto etc.) and used other means - saws and files.

 

 

To scale drawing - left.  Copy of plan drawing - right.

 

I cut out copies of the cathead itself and one of the drawing from the plans showing the installed cathead against the outer bulwark. These were placed on top of the drawing to see how things fit.

 

If the butt end of the cathead sits on the deck, there's still a gap between the waterway and the plank sheer, as well as between the plank sheer and the inner bulwark.

 

To eliminate any gaps, I'd have to reshape the cathead or carve slots into the plank sheer and waterway.  

 

Today's fabrications follow:

 

 

 

 

 

Note the difference in angle of the waterway and how much more vertical the butt end of the cathead appears in the photo below.  This may explain why JSGerson, affixed his to the waterway and not the deck.  

 

 

 

After looking at Jonathon's work, I may be revisiting this 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
add photos

[JSGerson]

I thought I would bring the conversation of the cathead carvings back to your log instead of continuing on Unegawahya's log. I was getting a bit confusing as to who I was commenting to.

 

How to create the cathead sculpture: As I mentioned on Unegawahya's log, there are only two ways. Either carve them yourself, or purchase a similar one online which I did. If you are going to attempt a carving, you might want to look at xKen's (Ken Forman) completed log starting at Post # 756. He's a professional model maker and it worth looking at his complete log. His is a true carving out of wood. An alternative to that method, is to use Scuptey, a clay like substance that is baked once the sculpture is made. I saw this done, but can't remember who did it that way.

 

Jon

[usedtosail]

Jon, that would be me, the same member you bought the cannons from.

[JSGerson]

Those cannons are coming in very handy right now. Thanks again for making them available.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

I'm leaving town in a few minutes and will be off line until late next week.  As for the carving, I'll look again at Tom and Ken's logs for inspiration and tips.  There's no immediate rush on that, since my catheads can slide into and out of the openings in the hull.  

 

But, can anyone recommend a good source for 3/64" x 3/32" and 3/64" x 1/8" stock?  The materials I received in the kit are woefully misshapen.  Their widths can vary by as much as 1/16".  I have to measure every strip at 4 or five locations to see if I can find a piece that has a uniform width.  For the procedure Bob Hunt recommends for installing the lower gun port frames, a consistent 1/8" width would be great.  I do have a work around using his technique in a round about way, by cutting and temporarily fitting four planks at a time to get the correct marks on the bulkheads, installing a gun port then moving forward to do the next section.  But I would prefer to cut one piece of thin wood 17/32" wide to use as a marking tool and have rock solid 1/8" stock to make this process happen more quickly.

 

..and yes, I have contacted Model Expo to ask about this. I have yet to get a reply.

 

see you in a week.

[helmarsowick]

Modelers Saw Mill        https://www.modelerssawmill.com/milled-wood-strips.php                        

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, helmarsowick said:

Modelers Saw Mill        https://www.modelerssawmill.com/milled-wood-strips.php                        

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!  I'll order today

Best

Peter

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:23 AM, JSGerson said:

How to create the cathead sculpture:

Jon, while whiling away some time in a hotel room in Pittsburgh, I did a search at MSW on "lion head", thinking I would find more easily find the references you cited earlier.  That led me to a hit in Rich's (Hipexec) build log of his Constructo kit.  When I return, I'll check to see if my copy of that kit has the lion head sculpture that Rich mounted to his cathead.  If so, I'll see if I can get away using it, the difference being model scale sizes.  Who knows, it might be close enough, and I'll get some value out of the unused kit.

[JSGerson]

I looked at Rich's log and his cathead sculpture looks a little oversized. The sculpture edges should be flush to the cathead. Therefore, the 1:87 Constructo sculpture might be just the right size for the larger scale 1:76.8 MS kit. Luckily, only a knowledgeable viewer would be aware that the Rich's and my sculptures are not the same as the actual ship. When you think about it, I'm really surprise the MS kit does not supply a precast sculpture.

 

Jon

[helmarsowick]

42 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Jon, while whiling away some time in a hotel room in Pittsburgh, I did a search at MSW on "lion head", thinking I would find more easily find the references you cited earlier.  That led me to a hit in Rich's (Hipexec) build log of his Constructo kit.  When I return, I'll check to see if my copy of that kit has the lion head sculpture that Rich mounted to his cathead.  If so, I'll see if I can get away using it, the difference being model scale sizes.  Who knows, it might be close enough, and I'll get some value out of the unused kit.

My name is Helmar. I believe I can help you. Contact me at hsowick@gmail.com

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

2023 Oct 02

Cathead catastrophe resolved, outer plank sheer installed, and starboard lower gun ports framed.  

 

To continue on with the catheads..

 

I broke out my new Proxxon mini milling machine. I practiced setting up for, drilling the three holes, and cutting out the slots for the simulated sheaves at the end of the catheads. I didn’t have a small enough milling bit for the slots to match the holes but have one on order.  Now that I know how to do it, when the cutter arrives, I should get excellent results.\

 

The mill is a pretty cool tool and working with it takes me back to my apprentice tool and die days under the tutelage of my Uncle Karl. This milling machine has the potential to make easy work out of some of the fabrication required later in the build. 

I moved on to adding the outer plank sheer.  This was relatively straight forward. I followed the Practicum’s directions to get this done.

Photos on next page are of the milling machine and the experimental cathead drilling and slot cutting. And one of the hull with the plank sheer almost completed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next up: the lower gun ports…

I spent a lot of time scratching my head over the method outlined by Bob Hunt.  This business of marking the location of the top of the upper sill by using four 1/8” x 3/64” planks, then adding a 1/32” to leave room to glue in the gunport covers seemed silly.  Now, maybe Bob had the same problem I had.  Model Shipways planks in this dimension were woefully misshapen.  The widths varied from as little as 3/32” to as much as 9/64”.  My first thought was that using this method of holding four planks in place to make marks on the bulkheads solved the problem of inconsistently dimensioned planks.  Not so!  One would have to hold in reserve all the plank segments used for marking and glue these in exactly where they were used to make the marks.  Furthermore, how accurately can anyone actually mark that second line 1/32” below the first?  I didn’t see the sense in this.

 

Instead, I ran to Ace Hardware to buy some 1/8” square basswood strips.  Kudo’s to Ace Hardware’s supplier.  The dimensions on every piece was spot on!  I milled this down to 3/64” using my thickness drum sander.  I was concerned that this might be too thin to do successfully on the Jet but was very pleasantly surprised.  I made enough to get me through the planking above, beside and below the gunports. Replacement strips were ordered at Modelers Sawmill, but this wouldn’t have arrived for a couple of weeks, hence the DIY project.

Now that I knew I would have consistent stock, I went to work on making spacers to facilitate the installation of the sills – upper and lower, as well as the vertical frame members. 

 

Bob Hunt’s Practicum instructs installing the upper sill, then planking to that sill.  Why?  I decided to do both sills, side frames and false cannon backs at the same time. 

 

To aid in coming up with the proper dimensions for the spacers, I made a large scale drawing of a gunport frame.  My initial cocktail napkin math conflicted with Bob in the matter of locating the position of the lower sill.  My drawing and subsequent test fitting of the gunport components confirmed my math.  The distance between sills is 7/16” not 13/32”.  See drawing below.

 

 

( This confirms my dimensions.  There’s exactly 1/32” on all four sides of the gun port covers, where the covers will be glued to the sills and frames.)

 

 

 

Given the curved nature of the hull, almost none of the sill ends could be cut at 90 degrees. So, measuring the angles where the sills met the bulkheads was required. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

\

 

 

 

 

 

 

I may have goofed in the way I installed the sills and vertical frames.  Looking at the plans, I realized that the false cannon backs needed to be perpendicular to the wide surfaces of the sills.  To accommodate this, I attached spacers to the forward face of the false cannon backs.  How thick did the spacers need to be?  The same thickness as the overhang of the vertical frames at the upper sill.  Difficult to describe. 

 

 

( Two spacers required for false cannon back to compensate for the overhang in the front that will be trimmed away in the hull fairing process..)

 

 

 

 

 

There was a lot of going back and forth to the plans to find the locations of the vertical frames.  Several of the false cannon backs had to be trimmed because the gunport itself was up against a bulkhead.  After installing sills, frames and cannon backs, the overhangs needed to be trimmed and faired before planking can happen.  How did Bob do this with planks already glued in and finished?

 

Before moving to the port side, I'll plank the starboard side, but that's for another day. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how I chose to deal with the gun port at the bow.  

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
corrected positions of several photos.

[helmarsowick]

I may have a solution for cathead decor. Contact me at hsowick@gmail.com and I'll provide details.