HMS Victory 'Orlop Deck'

[tmj]

 Exactly what fittings, furnishings and misc. stuff would typically be found on this lowest deck aboard the HMS Victory? 

[mtaylor]

Basically, anything in casks as it would need to be sealed from water and mold.  The first thing in the bottom would be ballast.

[Keith Black]

21 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Basically, anything in casks as it would need to be sealed from water and mold.  The first thing in the bottom would be ballast.

 And bilge rats. 

[tmj]

13 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 And bilge rats. 

I like that! Where can I purchase some 1:98 scale 'Bilge-Rats"?

[tmj]

39 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Basically, anything in casks as it would need to be sealed from water and mold.  The first thing in the bottom would be ballast.

Would there not be things like rope, lumber, etc. on that deck? 

[mtaylor]

9 minutes ago, tmj said:

Would there not be things like rope, lumber, etc. on that deck? 

You're right.   The ballast and some barrels below it and barrels and some cordage such as the hawses, etc.on the orlop.  I had to go check as the while the orlop on some was at the very bottom of the hold, others it was above it but considered the lowest deck.  

[popeye2sea]

The orlop, by definition, is the lowest deck of a ship. Therefore it lies just above the hold. The hold is where the storage casks would be found. The carpenter, sail maker, cooper, and boatswain, may have supplies and work areas on the orlop deck.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[tmj]

14 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

You're right.   The ballast and some barrels below it and barrels and some cordage such as the hawses, etc.on the orlop.  I had to go check as the while the orlop on some was at the very bottom of the hold, others it was above it but considered the lowest deck.  

Thank you mtaylor. Pictured below is what I am calling the 'Orlop'. Please correct me if I am wrong. In addition. What is the proper name for those two 'bench' like shelves/decks that are located down in the bilge, below what I am calling the 'Orlop' deck? I've built them, via Longridge's book and photos of the real ship, and I don't even know what they are called! What would be stowed on 'those' two shelves/decks/benches?

[popeye2sea]

I believe you would call those tween decks because they are partial decks between the other full decks.  Although, usually tween decks would run side to side and not longitudinally along one side.

 

Regards,

Henry

[allanyed]

Have you studied any contemporary plans?   There are some of Victory1765 so the layout may be different than her refit about 1803.  You can also see similar layouts of other first rates at RMG Collections as well.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79914       https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79912

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79949       https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-79948  These are all low resolution but you can buy high res from RMG. 

 

There are  free high resolution drawings of 98 gun ships on the Wiki site, Boyne 1790. Boyne 1810, Glory 1788, Union 1811 and Impregnable 1786.  https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich&fileuntil='Hayling'+(1760)+RMG+J0259.png#mw-category-media

 

Sometimes, on smaller ships,  in lieu of an orlop deck, there were platforms.  In addition there were the magazines and filling rooms below the orlop deck.   The drawings will show these better than words.

 

Allan

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by allanyed

[Lieste]

8 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Basically, anything in casks as it would need to be sealed from water and mold.  The first thing in the bottom would be ballast.

That is the hold, rather than the Orlop - the deck situated just below the waterline, below the lower gun deck, but clear of the hold.

 

[Lieste]

7 hours ago, tmj said:

Thank you mtaylor. Pictured below is what I am calling the 'Orlop'. Please correct me if I am wrong. In addition. What is the proper name for those two 'bench' like shelves/decks that are located down in the bilge, below what I am calling the 'Orlop' deck? I've built them, via Longridge's book and photos of the real ship, and I don't even know what they are called! What would be stowed on 'those' two shelves/decks/benches?

Carpenter's walk. Giving 'human reach' access to the hull so that caulking, plugging or other forms of emergency repair can be done while under way from the interior. Slowing the intake of water reduces the pumping burden, and identifying rot or other problems with durability before collapse reduces the risk of sudden foundering so more or less frequent access for examination was necessary.

[Morgan]

At post #10 Allan has given you a link to the Boyne, this is a half sister ship to the Victory (although rated as a 98 - ships had grown since Victory was launched), and her plans were lifted from the Victory’s refit design in 1801, you can’t get nearer than using them as a basis.

 

Gary

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, Morgan said:

At post #10 Allan has given you a link to the Boyne, this is a half sister ship to the Victory

Thanks Gary, I was unaware that Boyne was sister to the Victory refit.  Do you know which of Boyne plans, 1790 or 1810 is most appropriate?

 

TMJ, both plans on the Wiki site for the orlop deck are high res. but the only high resolution for the  inboard profile of Boyne 1790 that I know of can be purchased from RMG if the low resolution plan is not sufficient.  For Boyne 1810, the inboard profile plan on the Wiki site is high resolution. 

 

Note that orlop deck planks needed to be easily removed so were not usually fastened in place on top of the orlop deck beams.  From various plans and from Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, page 70:  orlop beams were fashioned with a ledge on each side if their upper faces. This was to receive the ends of the short lengths of planking that made up this deck.    

 

The sketch below may be more clear than words.

Allan

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by allanyed

[Morgan]

Hi Allan,

 

It is the 1810 Boyne, they were actually produced in 1801, St. Vincent ordered them as he thought Victory’s size made for an ideal Second Rate with First Rates now being of c.110 guns.

 

Gary

[tmj]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this topic. I now have an idea as to what items I should place on these two different decks/platforms. Thar might even be a bilge rat, or few lurking around! 

[tmj]

One last question, pertaining to the 'flip side' of this cross section. Other than cannon balls in the bins... is there anything else, cannon ball or weapons related, that should also be displayed on 'this' side of my build? 

[allanyed]

Hi TMJ,

The drawings at RMG and Wiki Commons in post 10 above show very important items including chain pumps and cisterns on both the gun deck and middle deck as well as elm tree pumps.  As the photo you have shown already has decks planked, it may not be possible to include these major features, but something to be considered on a future build.  Look at the drawings of the gun deck and middle deck for some good details.  If you cannot find them please feel free to PM me and I can forward them to you.  They are 45MB to 50MB each so cannot be attached here.

 

Allan

Edited August 29, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

Got your note re: PM.   Gun deck and middle deck plans on their way along with orlop, inboard profile, and cross section plans from the Wiki site.

Allan

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by allanyed