Which kit next

[Riotvan88]

So I'm currently building a Caldercraft Sherborne, so far the Hull is coming together and I'm fairly happy with the result. This is my first period ship model although I have now built three wooden hulls previously. 

 

I'm looking to start the next model at some point in the new year. I'm keen on building the gallion Revenge. 

 

It appears there's two kits available the occre revenge kit and the Amati/victory models kit. Has anyone got any experience with either kit? 

 

The occre is much cheaper and looks to be a more decorative model whereas the Amati looks to be a more realistic representation of the real ship. The Occre kit also comes with sails and although less realistic I very much like its appearance. That said I also like to more scale realistic look of the Amati model too. I just wondered what people's opinions are on the two options. 

 

Additionally I think the occre kit is aimed more at beginners like myself so thats also a plus for that one. 

 

Would the planking be harder for these kits than the Sherbourne?

Interesting to hear people's thoughts 

Cheers 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Riotvan88

[Stevinne]

I'm not familiar with either kit, but another consideration is the quality of instructions provided, which can make or break the experience when working on your first few ships. 

[Jaager]

There is a problem - an unavoidable barrier - with any kit supplied sails.  The numbers are huge against any materiel that a kit manufacturer can afford to supply being anywhere close to the canvas being in scale. 

If this is important to you,  but you wish to display sails - a fabric like paper - SilkSpan for example - will get you much closer to realistic.  This is a scratch project - but one requiring almost no additional expenditure on tools.  Being paper,  you can practice and discard as much as is needed.  Instructions abound here and in a SeaWatch publication.

This means that the presence or absence of sails should be a non-factor in your choice of kit.

A cost is that each sail comes with its own additional set of lines to mount and run.  It makes rigging significantly more in factors of time and complexity.

 

Galleons - race galleons - were a lot more popular in the early days of ship modeling.  The second hand books with these 1920's 30's 40's adventures could be fun to explore for things to do with the kit. 

and this book:    THE GALLEON   PETER KIRSCH  US NAVAL INSTITUTE PRESS  ANNAPOLIS, MD  1990

is excellent - if you can find it.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jaager

[GrandpaPhil]

I am building from the Victory Models kit plans for the Revenge right now.

 

The plans are excellent!  The instructions are excellent!  The level of detail is excellent!  I would strongly recommend the Victory Models kit for a model of the Revenge.

 

[allanyed]

46 minutes ago, Jaager said:

There is a problem - an unavoidable barrier - with any kit supplied sails.  The numbers are huge against any materiel that a kit manufacturer can afford to supply being anywhere close to the canvas being in scale. 

I agree with Dean.  If you are intent on adding sails why not make your own, they are almost guaranteed to be better than the poorly stitched materials found in some kits.  The booklet Dean mentions is by David Antscherl at SeaWatch Books for $5.   https://seawatchbooks.com/products/swan-iv-sail-making-supplement-from-the-revised-and-expanded-edition-by-david-antscherl   Regardless of which kit you choose, research the ship and others like it of that era IF accuracy is a factor for you.   

 

2 hours ago, Riotvan88 said:

Amati looks to be a more realistic representation of the real ship

In the end get what is most comfortable for you and have fun.   That said, by comparison, the one does seem to look more realistic albeit not very accurate in some of the details.   Some examples, all of which you can change on your own,,,,, it has belaying pins which the British did not use until about 200 years later, the planking style is fantasy, the pintles are out of scale, and the cannon look a lot more like Spanish guns of that era than British.  The book mentioned above is available on Amazon at what seems like a decent price when considering availability and will probably help you with a lot of these kinds of details if you are up for some kit bashing.

https://www.amazon.com/Galleon-Great-Ships-Armada-Era/dp/1557503001

 

 

 

Allan

[GrandpaPhil]

I used Peter Kirsch’s book for my guns on my model.

[allanyed]

Phil, Can you post a picture of the gun pattern(s) he shows with approximate dates (or PM me so we do not hijack this subject😀)  Working on a cannon project with others here at MSW and would like to see how the pattern compares to the earliest patterns we have found in detail, that is the Pitt and Brown patterns of about 1600.  THANK YOU

[Riotvan88]

Thanks for all the info guys. Regarding the instructions apparently both kits come with a detailed booklet and online reviews rate both instructions as good. 

 

I think I'll buy those books so I can build a more accurate model either way. 

[OllieS]

I have spent the last 18 months trying to turn the Occre Revenge into something I'm happy with using Amati builds on this site and the Kirsch Galleon book.

With hindsight it would have been a lot simpler and quicker to buy the Amati kit, but that would have been a different occupation. It really depends what you want from your hobby i.e. more or less of an out-of-the-box build. I also agree that if you want sails you really need to make your own.

Another great resource is Baker's Pelican build log on this site by the way.

[thibaultron]

Check out Vanguard Models, his kits are fantastic!

[catopower]

12 minutes ago, thibaultron said:

Check out Vanguard Models, his kits are fantastic!

Vanguard Models doesn't make any galleon kits. However, Chris Watton of Vanguard Models did design the Amati kit. So, Ron's plug for Vanguard Models might be considered a plug for the Amati Revenge(?).

 

Another potential plug for the Amati Revenge. Chris Watton used to be with Caldercraft and also designed that Sherbourne kit, and he's made a lot of design enhancement to his kit designs since then.

[MarcNS]

I have built an Amati Victory model (Revenge) and it was the best kit experience I've had.  All of that series was designed by Chris Watton so you can't go wrong.  

I have built an OcCre ship (Candelaria) and just started the Santísima Trinidad.  Since you have completed a couple of AL models (I've built several including the San Francisco II) you will find the transition to OcCre very easy.  I like that they give you hard copy of the pictures instructions and some plans.  Also in addition to the pre-made sails I think they always include sail plans so you can make your own,  The Victory models give you the plans and some material but also include rigging instructions for sails or no sails - in some cases I personally think that the ships are so beautiful that they look better without but that is very much a personal call.

Lots of good advice from others here, Allan is right on, buy what you are comfortable with and have fun.

[DennisL]

I have the Amati kit The Revenge and will probably never build it.  I've opened the box to inspect the kit but it is complete.  It's a great kit.

I would be willing to offer it to you for "reasonable offer".  Shipping might be a lot due to size of box.  Let me know if you would be interested as I'm 70 and am interested in selling.