HMS Victory by Yabuhebi (Chris) - Caldercraft - 1:72

[Yabuhebi]

Still plugging along. I have the same number of planks on each side. I think that the next run are going to require 2 to 1 or 1 to 2 plank runs. I feel like I am close to the water line in the build so that anything I do to complete the 2nd planking after will be covered by the copper plates.

 

My wife saw my progress tonight and doesn't want me to cover it with copper. I do love the great builds that are all natural. There is a perfect beauty to them. But I just can't wait to take a chance with the copper!!!! Sorry babe....

 

On a double side note, I received the 3rd and last book in my library of reference material today. I have McGowan's HMS Victory 'Her Construction, Career and Restoration', Longridge's 'The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships' and McKay's '100 Gun Ship Victory'. All three are just the best! I received McGowan's today and I can't stop smiling!!!! 

 

Also...I wanted to add a bit of extra detail to the interior walls of the 2 entrances. I have seen a few builds where the builders have added rings and painted the wall. I spent the last few days searching 'HMS Victory entrance pics' to no avail. I have dozens of pics looing INTO the ship, but nothing looking from the middle deck looking out.

 

Then!!!!....as I was working on my laptop, I had the new Napoleon movie playing on the TV for background. I had already watched it at the movies, when I looked up and saw the HMS Victory. I know the movie sub titles said it was the HMS Bellerophon, but it was her! And then there it was! A shot of an English officer walking INTO the ship! I know it will be barely visible, but hey, how much of the middle deck can you see once the rest are in place?

 

Yes, I still have some cutting to do. It is so hard!!!!

 

I was able to even up the strakes with a little tapering and stealing.

 

I know it looks sloppy, but it isn't that bad in my shop!

 

 

 

 

Look!!!! So maybe a little knee from the ceiling, a few rings and some wall planking! That and a little detail work on the side panels in the entrance way.

Might look cool.

 

Also thought about adding the bits that would be mid deck running parallel to the mast as it runs upward....

 

I think as a new modeler, these 3 are all you need to really aid you in your build.

Edited March 5 by Yabuhebi

[Charter33]

Coming along nicely Chris.

Background research and hunting down that extra detail to enhance a model kit is a very satisfying and rewarding aspect of any field of modelling, especially when you are committing so much time and effort to a project like this one. I regularly refer to my copies of Longbridge and McKay, but wasn't aware of Alan McGowan's book. I am now. Just found a copy - I'll have it by the weekend......thanks for bringing it to my attention! 👍😉

Cheers,

Graham

[Yabuhebi]

 

Tried my hand at building out the inside of the entrances. I just cut a few pieces of wood and covered them with deck scraps.

 

I also had some 1mm or so brass wire from my previous model and created some rings, which I blackened. I had never used that stuff before and it was pretty easy and looks pretty good. 

 

 

Like all model pics, close up shots do more harm than good sometimes!

 

But, looking through the doorway is pretty cool. It will be dark once everything is buttoned up, but I'll know!

 

 

Also continuing work on 2nd planking. I went down about 10 strakes and laid a plank and then started going back up. The strakes lay a lot nicer on the hull and I am happy with them.

[Yabuhebi]

 

Going to have splitting my time between the boat in the basement and the boat in the yard. We only have 4 months or so of really nice weather here and have to try and take advantage when we can. Spent all weekend sanding, filling and working on the rudder because it was 70 here....70!!!! That doesn't happen often.

 

All the while I kept thinking....man I would have been done with the 2nd planking if the darn weather had just acted normal....drizzly/snowy and cold!

[Yabuhebi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moving on over the past few days I plodded along with the 2nd planking. 

It is unbelievable just how much time it takes to do each strake.

 

A few days ago, I thought I had 2-3 hours to work on the boat before leaving and I think I did may 4 strakes in that time. Just so much time lining things up, final fitting, sanding and then gluing.

 

After doing those 4, I start looking at the open hull and counting...so I have like 30 more to go on this side, that's EIGHT HOURS!!!! Sigh!

 

I tried to plan ahead with remaining strakes, laying out a schematic of what needs to be installed. That took an easy hour or so.

It at least help me visualize what was ahead. 

 

As I got towards the keel, I had to scrafice just laying planks one after another and start following the hull's lines. This helped reduce any twist or a need to bend or soak whole planks to compensate. However, that tactic then resulted in a need for a lot of stealer planks. Which take time to cut, sand and fit.

 

I opted for that resigning myself to the fact that I couldn't hide from installing stealers based on my low level of experience.

 

You can see that stealers are in my future!!!!!

Angle cuts are my friend! Just keep saying that.

 

 

Once done, I added wood filler to the hull, concentrating on the bow and stern as they showed to worst in spacing and clinkering.

I did try to add some stain, but it didn't take as willingly as last time.

 

 

 

Honestly, when I put the first round of sanding to the hull, I was quite happy with the final shape.

Now doing it this way is NOT going to work if you desire to show the hull in natural wood, but since I plan on painting upper hull above the water line and copper planking the below waterline, this fill is perfect. 

 

Time to move to the port side!

[Yabuhebi]

Alrighty!

I started on the other side and thought just how hard and LOOOOONGGGGG it was going to be.

I started laying down full strakes and about 6 or 7 down, I opted to add a strake midway between the remaining open space. This helped eliminate excessive twisting of the full planks but it then created a situation where I have to taper both ends of the remaining strakes.

 

I had also mentioned that laying down planks and removing the excess CA glue was wreaking havoc on my finger tips. The glue just cakes on and it dries out the skin so bad. Using nail polish remover actually just melts the glue and smooths it out. A solution I have yet to try is to create a salt and water paste and that will dry out and flake the CA glue with the caustic affects of a glue remover.

 

Also, it was suggested I get those micro tips for applying the glue. Now I have hundreds of them, but they never suited my needs when I was building my Titanic model. They didn't give me the control I needed when applying microscopic amounts of glue to hold 1/200 scale pieces together.

 

Well I tried them and I did the remaining open areas in about 2 hours! What a difference.

 

 

Finally it is done! Well not really, I still have to go up a few levels, and then a few more after that and then the wales and then.....and then.....

 

I'll need to add a bit of filler, but I think it will look just fine once done and sanded.

 

 

 

[Yabuhebi]

I added the wood filler and after it dried I gave it the first round of sanding. Once done, I looked for low spots and gaps and added a 2nd round of light fill.

 

I know the pictures show a messy goopy disaster but this filler sands so easily that it'll be ok. Also, while I had some concerns about its stability as a good base for gluing the 2nd planking, it worked very well.

 

[Yabuhebi]

I know it looked bad, but I sanded down the filler and continued to shape the final hull lines.

I attached the stern and I also attached the inner bulwark patterns. As I did this, it appeared that they were lined up pretty good.

There was some fitting issues, but they had to deal with height and getting them under the bulkhead tabs for the next deck.

I used a belt sander to remove about 1-2mm from the bottom of the patterns and they fit in nicely.

 

I also planked the lower stern piece under the gallery. I think that is closer to what the current ship shows.

I'll add the gun ports later.

 

[Yabuhebi]

One of the manuals direction detailed the installation of 'mast sleeves'.

I didn't understand at first, but it appears as if there are 2 rings that are glued together. They help to align and hold the masts to the decks.

There is one set of sleeves on the middle deck. These parts are VERY FRAGILE.

I broke them and had to glue them together. The sprue ticks interfere with their fit around the mast, but removing them is almost impossible due to the delicateness of the pieces. I was forced to glue them together.

 

Once done, I painted them and glued the 2 together (so they are essentially 2 high) and installed them over the main mast hole (I think)

I was able to get my dremmel sanding cone in and thin it out for the mast, but doing so broke the glue bond. I'll have to figure something out.

 

You can see the sleeves and the interior of the other side entrance...with my custom paneling and cast iron rings!!!!

 

I've seen a few builds that modified the entrance panels, trying to created the beveled look of the real panels. 

I tried thinning out some of the 1mm walnut to create that look. There is so little room to work with and when I put the cast iron canopy in place, it actually overshadows everything else.

 

For now, I added some rounded strips to hide the raw joint between the open liners and the 2nd planking. I'll work on that later.

 

Started the upper deck planking. Went pretty smoothly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Yabuhebi]

I went to start adding the gun port liners for the non-lid cannons on the stbd side and there is an alignment issue.

This seems a common concern in the builds I have been watching. Either they are offset left or right or angled too high or low.

 

It seems like in my case, some of the ports were fine while others were canted so that an sills I installed would be slanted downwards.

There was also a bit of misalignment in some too. I did notice when I fit the inner patterns, they seem to have a bit of a curve to them. When I sanded them to make them fit, I didn't eliminate the curve.

 

I used my dremmel tool to remove material from the inner pattern. I took a pencil and drew a line from the outside onto the inner pattern to give me feedback as to how much to sand away.

 

The tip of the dremmel is the cone sander, so it isn't precise. I took an exacto knife after to clean out the corners and finished with a right angle file.

 

I'll finish them up tomorrow and that should resolve the issue.

Not overly concerned as the interior side will be covered by planks and I still have planks to add to the exterior.

 

 

 

You can see the pencil mark before attempting to shave off the excess wood.

Also the downward slant of the lower sill if I opted NOT to do anything.

 

A better view of my guide to sand to.

 

The results once I sanded the back area down.

 

 

While they are just sitting there and haven't been fitted, they do sit much better.

 

 

You can see how messy they start out after hitting them with the dremmel. But they do straighten out a bit in the end.

 

This will also lower the interior side which will help with other builders concerns over the cannons barely fitting out the port because they are too low.

 

We shall see!!!!

[Yabuhebi]

Installed the first round of gun ports. I opted to install the sill first, then the header and the side walls last.

With the side walls, I had to sand them into a trapezoidal shape and then install them from the back towards the outside.

 

I tried to minimize the amount of excess that was showing on the inside bulwarks as it was very hard to trim them back.

In the end I used the dremmel tool with a sanding barrel. I was able to get them sanded down to the template on the exterior and fairly close on the inside. 

 

 

 

You can see the rubbing, sanding marks, but they are flush.

 

I added stained wood filler to the deck. While this filler does sand easily, it is very hard to get into the nooks and crannies of this deck. The little bulwark stubs are killers to your hands and fingers. 

 

 

After finishing the gun port liners, I installed the interior bulwark planking. The instructions require that you provide spacing for the camber beams. Honestly, with the next deck in place, you are never going to see that last level of planking....

[Yabuhebi]

The deck filler does look pretty scary going on, but the end result provides a nice color and fills in the joints very nicely. 

[Yabuhebi]

Once I finished the gun port liners and the interior planking on the side walls I continued to plank the hull. 

I kind of used a dual approach to installing them. For some, I just ran one long plank and then cut out the gun ports.

For others, I just added planks from opening to opening. 

 

Both have their pluses and minuses. In the end, my biggest struggle is getting the openings to look square.

I continue to spend a lot of time picking away at the ports, for that perfect square!

[Yabuhebi]

Started work on the wales. 

 

Taking careful measurements of the schematics, I was able to translate the locations from the plans to the hull. It is still difficult to lay that first plank on the hull. I didn't draw a continuous line, relying on small pencil marks to make sure the plank followed the correct path.

 

Once that first plank is laid, the others are easy to glue into place.

 

My frustration was that I was so careful to make sure the wales from each side lined up. I was POSITIVE that I had done it correctly, only to see after laying the first lower plank on the lower wale that they didn't match side to side. 

 

Overall, I am satisfied at the results. They will need some sanding and maybe a bit of filling. Also looking at the wales from the bottom up, there are some gaps caused by the curvature of the bow. I will have to fill those in to create a solid line

 

[Yabuhebi]

Continued with my wales over the past week or so. Once again, I did notice that on the underside of the bow, some of the wales just didn't fit to the hull.

 

That's my fault for not making sure the planks were glued tightly and perhaps either not tapering or splining them? 

 

I think the port side wales look a bit better than the stbd side. I should love my children equally, but what can I say!!!!

 

 

 

Overall the starboard wales look pretty good. I also started the gun port liners.

At first, I was using CA glue, but it does cause some spill over if you use too much. In addition, my finger tips are still fried from the 2nd planking.

 

I did not take care to be stingy with the glue and my index and thumbs are just raw. I worked for UPS for 20 years and during the winter, all my finger tips would dry out and split. Just so cold and dry, I would wrap them in first aid tape (like Michael Jackson!) to protect them. As I type, both thumbs are taped up!

 

After that, I switched back to wood glue. I found that I could attach the liner, then move on to the next one. Once I was done with that, I would go back and gently tweak the previous liner a bit to straighten it out. 

 

I didn't like the ending fit of the wales into the stern quarters so I took a stab using some wood putty.

It does sand away....

 

 

One of the forward gun ports didn't have a lot of 'meat' to attach to. I had sanded down so much that I didn't have much.

So I took a piece of 1st planking to glue to the inside of the port to provide something to glue to.

 

The problem was getting the piece to come up tight to the back of the gun port template. If only I had a teeny, tiny finger to reach in and pull it tight!

In the end, I looked up and saw my little paint lid opener. That worked! And it gave me enough room to glue the liner to.

 

In all honesty, I think the liners would be a breeze if all the gun port liners had a backing frame on them just for this purpose.

I know that some of them might have issues with the bulkheads, but it would have allowed for a 2mm ledge. If only!!!!!

 

See! The wood putty does sand away!!!!

 

As I was wrapping up, I still have frustrations on the gun ports and the liners. They just aren't perfect or square, something I was really hoping to achieve.

 

 

[Yabuhebi]

 

 

I decided to plank the lower stern section and I will cut away the stern port doors later. I also used filler to smooth out the seams and smooth out the transition from the hull and the stern post....something somebody warned me about earlier!!!!!

 

They were right!

 

[Yabuhebi]

I think mainly because I was getting bored that I wanted to paint the gun liners. Hoping that would make them look better.

Instead it just magnified to poor fitting and bad cutting.

 

 

 

 

So with the failure staring me right in the face, I decided to see if I could fix it. I opted to use the wood filler rather than putter as it dries fast and sands easy.

 

When it was all said and done, I am not sure if I did any good.

I plan of priming the whole hull, so hopefully when I do that, the primer will fill some of the voids and create a smoother finish.

If not, I will take another stab with the filler.

 

[Yabuhebi]

I put two coats of matt finish on the upper deck (I still have to refer to the instructions to remember which deck is which)

 

I did add some filler and stain again. Unfortunately, it was very difficult to get it out of the edges under the bulwark stubs. Chewed up my knuckles something fierce, even using sanding sticks, sand paper around sanding pads....just very tough.

 

The only saving grace is this deck is almost completely hidden.

 

[Yabuhebi]

On to the port side!!!

I took a lot more time on this side. Instead of cutting a bunch of liner strips, I actually cut each one separately. I still glued the sill first.

Then went down and did all the vertical liners on the left side. Then the right. It was hard to do the right ones, I use my right hand for the tweezers and needed to cross over to hold the piece in place....a lot of sailboat twister going on.

 

I actually lost my little liner jig in the boat. I am not kidding, I was doing one of the lower ports and my hand slipped and whoop.....there it went, down in the bilge, never to be seen again. What are the freaking odds!!!!!

 

When I finished, I am actually a little more pleased with the results. I still need to go back using a 1mm chisel and exacto blade and square some areas, but I think these look pretty comparable to many of the other build logs.

 

 

[Yabuhebi]

 

While getting ready to switch from the starboard to port liner task, I decided to try and paint the interior gun ports. I was curious to see how the paint lays and what it would look like.

 

The planking and fit on the interior isn't the best but I struggle worrying about areas that are not going to be seen.

 

Now in retrospect, that seems kind of heretical. I mean, in theory, I don't really have to do any of the cannons hidden from view. But I fully intend to create the cannons as they should be and then rigging them as close to real as possible. So, if I am doing that, why am not doing the same for this interior planking?

 

I mean, I am not laying the very top plank because of the camber beams and they will NEVER be visible and I don't seem to mind that the liners are sticking out a bit on the extreme fore and aft port openings. 

 

Those are the questions that will haunt me for days to come.

 

 

But I do have a question about the paints.

I am using the Admiralty Paints. They are VERY thick in the bottle.

I used an airbrush which was very difficult given the angle needed to get into all the nooks and crannies. I still have to apply a final coat, again, more curious than anything.

 

What do I use to thin these paints? I used Tamiya acrylic thinner and it seemed to work ok, I had to keep the air pressure at it's highest range and the paint did seem to thicken in the pot too quickly.

 

I do have other thinners, AK, Vallejo, isopropyl and a few others I can't remember right now.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Chris

 

 

[allanyed]

Hi Chris

Maybe not too late, and maybe not that  important but there were no port lid stops/linings on the top of the ports, only the bottom and sides.  The ports were made up with the sills top and bottom and frames on the sides.  Linings (only about 1.5" thick) were then nailed to the frames and and bottom sill only.  See photos from Preble Hall below.

 

Don't forget that the thickness of the wales at the rabbet at the stem was reduced to the same thickness of the adjacent planking so it would seat properly in the rabbet.  It looks like you did that on one wale, but hard to tell from the angle of the photos.

 

Allan

 

[chris watton]

This is one of the pics I took when visting Victory, for research when developing Amati 64th scale version.

 

Gun port linings are top and sides, and not lower ledge.

[Yabuhebi]

57 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Hi Chris

Maybe not too late, and maybe not that  important but there were no port lid stops/linings on the top of the ports, only the bottom and sides.  The ports were made up with the sills top and bottom and frames on the sides.  Linings (only about 1.5" thick) were then nailed to the frames and and bottom sill only.  See photos from Preble Hall below.

 

Don't forget that the thickness of the wales at the rabbet at the stem was reduced to the same thickness of the adjacent planking so it would seat properly in the rabbet.  It looks like you did that on one wale, but hard to tell from the angle of the photos.

 

Allan

 

 

Lol....now you tell me!!!! Yeah, I just finished all of the liners and was very diligent to create a stop for the upper liner too! 

I'd like to think that my version of the Victory was from an alternative reality where the designed needed stops on all four sides! Whew.....crisis averted.

 

I do appreciate the info though and hopefully new builders will see this and work accordingly. 

I also just checked the instructions and they don't mention that there is no need to recess the upper sills. 

My feeling though as people will be looking down at the model when finished, they won't see that.

 

Although I am going to have to account for the fact that I may have to place the gun ports up a bit higher now....

 

THANK YOU!!!

Chris

[allanyed]

Chris,  years ago I thought there was a stop on the top as well, but looking at contemporary models, only one of many that I have seen has a top lining.  Personally I would not rely on modern day Victory as a consistently reliable source of information.   It is truly a treasure trove of information, but maybe not perfect after all the rebuilds.  TFFM goes into the linings in detail and the contemporary models verify this.  In the end, doubtless few folks would notice or care.  

Allan

[Yabuhebi]

17 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Chris,  years ago I thought there was a stop on the top as well, but looking at contemporary models, only one of many that I have seen has a top lining.  Personally I would not rely on modern day Victory as a consistently reliable source of information.   It is truly a treasure trove of information, but maybe not perfect after all the rebuilds.  TFFM goes into the linings in detail and the contemporary models verify this.  In the end, doubtless few folks would notice or care.  

Allan

Allan

 

You make a great point about the many refurbishment projects on the boat. Someone just posted this pic from the ship with a completely different point of view!

 

Interesting that there is no recess here. Now this appears to be a lid from the lower wale? Rather than a stop on the lower sill, the lid just fits into the opening smoothly.

 

 

Also, what do you mean by this: "Don't forget that the thickness of the wales at the rabbet at the stem was reduced to the same thickness of the adjacent planking so it would seat properly in the rabbet.  It looks like you did that on one wale, but hard to tell from the angle of the photos."

 

If there is something I need to do, now is going to be the time!

[allanyed]

7 hours ago, Yabuhebi said:

Someone just posted this pic from the ship with a completely different point of view!

I would trust contemporary based information before modern reproductions, even if it is the Victory.  I do wonder if this is part of the current 10 year $5million pound project.   It is great that they are doing this so she will be around for many more years.  I have reached out to Andrew Baines asking about the linings.  I HOPE he will respond.

Allan

[allanyed]

7 hours ago, Yabuhebi said:

Also, what do you mean by this

The main wales on Victory are probably about 10" thick based on the Shipbuilder's Repository.  The strakes below are down to about 6" thick.  The thicker strakes were reduced in thickness to match the thinner strakes so they could fit into the rabbet.  Hope this is a little more clear.  Pic below may also help as you can see the wales get thicker as you move aft from the stem.

Allan

[Yabuhebi]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

The main wales on Victory are probably about 10" thick based on the Shipbuilder's Repository.  The strakes below are down to about 6" thick.  The thicker strakes were reduced in thickness to match the thinner strakes so they could fit into the rabbet.  Hope this is a little more clear.  Pic below may also help as you can see the wales get thicker as you move aft from the stem.

Allan

Ah, I see what you mean. Ironically, they are a bit thinner because of the clinking effect I created when I installed them. Once I sanded them, they are definitely tapered and should unknowingly work to my advantage!

[Yabuhebi]

 

This is the area you mean because these anchor entry points and bow trim work actually go over the top of the wales thus they need to be reduced for fitting?

 

[allanyed]

12 hours ago, Yabuhebi said:

because these anchor entry points and bow trim work actually go over the top of the wales thus they need to be reduced

Chris,

I never really thought of that point and it seems like a valid point to be sure.  I was more concerned that the end of the strakes needed to be of a thickness that was similar in order to seat properly in the rabbet.  What you mention appears to be an additional advantage.🙂

Allan