Staghound 1850 by rwiederrich - 1/96 - Extreme Clipper

[rwiederrich]

Here we go again.   After doing some re-evaluating, I opted to put aside the clipper Donald McKay for now because the reused CS hull from Revell, just isn’t cutting it and the hull curves are just all wrong.  
Like the Glory of the Seas, I am going for full authenticity, even to the magnitude of correcting previously held and modeled errors, namely the lack of one of Donald McKay’s ingenious contributions to naval architecture….the Naval Hood.  
As before with Glory of the Seas, I will be employing the aid of my friends, Clipperfan, and Vladimir.  Both have aid so much even up to this point.  Behind the scenes,  they and I have hashed out many issue.  Much more is needed, but I’m not waiting to gain full understanding ,   So I’m beginning now with introductions and plans, so our MSW friends can benefit from our journey.

 

We begin with some paintings and line drawings. 

Edited July 15 by rwiederrich
subject build date incorrect

[rwiederrich]

To begin we need some drawing.   We begin with Cappelle’s and we will correct any issues we discover as we research other material,  such as writings of historical reporter.  Duncan McLean. 
Vlad has already lent his expertise with CAD. 

[rwiederrich]

I know both men will jump in with their contributions.  
 

For me it meant cleaning and preparing the shop for a new build.  

[rwiederrich]

Poor Donald McKay.   She gets to be set aside. 😢

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

At first, I couldn't locate your Stag Hound build log because I looked for it in the section for vessels built between 1801-1850.

With your permission, I'm going to share some of the most beautiful artwork that inspires me to love Donald McKay's premiere inaugural extreme clipper.

Back in the late 50's for Christmas presents, our parents gave us two Revell clipper ship models. I was given the Flying Cloud while my elder brother received the Stag Hound. I remember really loving my model which had a spectacular image of the clipper ship flying dramatically in stormy rough weather. Meanwhile, my brother's had a peaceful painting of his ship by artist John Steel. That was my first exposure to Stag Hound. Time-Life Books Seafarer Series "The Clipper Ships" had an inspiring piece by JE Buttersworth. Since it's a two page spread the fold can't be eliminated. Later I found another image of the same piece courtesy of The South Street Seaport. The majesty and impressive length, not to mention lofty spars of McKay's premiere extreme clipper are all on beautiful display.

At the time of her launch, Stag Hound was the undisputed largest merchant vessel in the world. However. to my knowledge, there's not one accurate version of this marvelous ship that's ever been created. That's primarily due to Donald McKay himself being so successful at guarding his nautical secrets that his unique bow construction has been lost since 1850! Rob, Vladimir, I and a few others like Druxey with unparalleled help of author Michael Mjelde engaged in a remarkable journey to reconstruct McKay's final, longest lived medium clipper Glory of the Seas. Through the ever generous documents and even more rare contemporary images, dating all the way back to her launch and fitting out in 1869, Michael Mjelde has been a priceless contributor in our goal to finally realize the stalwart beauty of this spectacular ship. As we gradually unveiled McKay's secrets, repeatedly the thought occured to me that Glory of the Seas was becoming a maritime "Rosetta Stone" to discovering the true appearance of Donald McKay's other beautiful clipper ships. So, armed with the experience and knowledge we've garnered, we're applying our research abilities to finally realize the historically accurate appearance of Stag Hound the innovative vessel which started it all for McKay and which put Boston on an equal footing with rival New York.

While there exists no known photos of this early clipper, there are some useful resources. Chief among them is a large 1:48th scale, 4 foot, 8 inches half-hull Stag Hound model carved by McKay's own son Cornelius. There's a single, useful broadside picture of the model featured in the 1928 publication "Famous Sailing Ships and Their Builder Donald McKay." This encyclopedic book with many beautiful full color illustrations was written by another relative, Richard McKay. To researchers, besides the spectacular model itself, the first hand account by the son emphasizes how meticulously accurate his model was, since he literally constructed it precisely from lines of the full-sized ship taken right off the moulding loft floor as she was being built. Cornelius further emphasized that all of his father's "builder's models" had been previously destroyed. Another valuable resource comes from Lars Bruzelius's wonderful website which contains dozens of highly accurate, very specific construction details of sailing vessels. Among them, I discovered an article by publicist Duncan McLean, The Boston Daily Atlas written on December 21, 1850. Here's a link to the entire article: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1850-12-21).html

 

Based on that description, I sketched this bow of Stag Hound, for the first time illustrating her authentic, historically accurate appearance including those pesky, misunderstood naval hoods and cutwater overlapping her stem, which everybody before have missed! Since my original drawing was based on the 1881 Hall lines, they differ slightly from the more accurate Cornelius McKay model. Vladimir's using his computer skills to reconcile the two lines. His red line of the half-hull model overlap the gray lines of my original pencil sketch. This promises to be another fascinating collaboration.

 

 

 

Edited July 14 by ClipperFan
Revising image

[rwiederrich]

I’m so sorry for putting this log in the wrong year section. I had a lapse of memory. 
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I’m so sorry for putting this log in the wrong year section. I had a lapse of memory. 
 

Rob

Rob,.

No need to apologize, I just wanted you to know it was misplaced so you could correct it. I apologize if I embarrassed you.

[KeithAug]

Exciting Rob. She is a very handsome vessel but looks like quite a challenge. I'm sure you will make a treasure out of her.

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich since I see you've already laid out the Chappelle lines from his book "The Search for Speed Under Sail" I will endeavour to keep up with your remarkably swift construction pace. Meanwhile I'm going to share another inspiring work of this magnificent McKay first. This one's titled "Stag Hound in the Tea Trades" by Cape Cod artist Frank Vining Smith. He really captures her lean lithe hull and very lofty rig in a beautiful ocean setting.

Edited July 14 by ClipperFan
Book title correction

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich Rob,

To help others avoid pitfalls of incorrectly modeling Stag Hound based on erroneous plans, I'm sharing this evaluation we made of a beautifully crafted but wildly inaccurate model.

Most likely due to a lack of accurate information and misinterpretation of another's description of a half-poop deck, EB Douglas drafted these Stag Hound clipper plans in 1922. Hull form looks very close to Howard Chappelle's lines and sailing rig is very similar to David Macgregor's.

Too bad Mr Douglas apparently had no access to Duncan McLean's far more accurate description, which included the fact that the Stag Hound poop deck was 44' long, "half" the size of others. That, and typical of all McKay models, the bow is plain. Nothing at all like the real ship which had complex naval hoods and cutwaters overlapping her stem, which augmented her sharp prow.    

Edited July 16 by ClipperFan
grammar correction

[druxey]

Well, here you go again, Rob!

[rwiederrich]

Thanks everyone.  Does anyone know how to move this thread to its proper location in vessels built in 1850?  I was premature…… probably because Glory of the seas was so long in the 1851-1900 section.   
 

Rob

Edited July 14 by rwiederrich

[Knocklouder]

Hello @rwiederrich, I think if you go to the first post you can edit.  It to the right date.   Hope this helps            

Bob M.

Edited July 14 by Knocklouder

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich Rob,

I wouldn't worry about the technicality. If someone knows, I'm sure they'll share the "how to." 

Meanwhile, here's more of the images we shared privately before to get your build log up to date. First 5 are lightened up lines from Howard I Chappelle's 1967 publication "The Search For Speed Under Sail", including Vladimir's computer matched plans. Last is a first edition book cover, for anyone unfamiliar with this comprehensive work. Chappelle's works are beautiful but still unfortunately inaccurate (slightly off topic but another bone I have to pick, besides her completely plain bow, is the ridiculously small rear coach house on Sovereign of the Seas. "She has a full topgallant forecastle, a large house amidships and a spacious trunk cabin, in two divisions, built into a half poop deck, with steerage room abaft." The Boston Daily Atlas, June 19, 1852. The line "steerage room abaft" says that this was a large cabin which occupied the entire poop similar to Flying Fish which preceeded this vessel, yet every model I've seen has that tiny small cabin instead! Back to the current topic.) 

So when constructing scratch built replicas, in order to get accurate results, I've learned it's quite essential to compare actual historical descriptions by Duncan McLean in The Boston Daily Atlas to other purported sources. Regardless, we still plan on referring to Chappelle's deck layout but getting it faithful to the December 20, 1850 details.

Edited July 16 by ClipperFan
grammar correction

[ClipperFan]

53 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich Rob,

I wouldn't worry about the technicality. If someone knows, I'm sure they'll share the "how to." 

Meanwhile, here's more of the images we shared privately before to get your build Log up to date. First 5 are lightened up  lines from Howard I Chappelle's 1967 publication, including Vladimir's computer matched plans. Last is a first edition book cover, for anyone unfamiliar with this comprehensive work. Chappelle's works are beautiful but still unfortunately inaccurate (slightly off topic but another bone I have to pick, besides her completely plain bow, is the ridiculously small rear coach house on Sovereign of the Seas. "She has a full topgallant forecastle, a large house amidships and a spacious trunk cabin, in two divisions, built into a half poop deck, with steerage room abaft." The Boston Daily Atlas, June 19, 1852. The line "steerage room abaft" says that this was a large cabin which occupied the entire poop similar to Flying Fish which preceeded this vessel, yet every model I've seen has that tiny small cabin instead! Back to the current topic.) 

So when constructing scratch built replicas, in order to get accurate results, I've learned it's quite essential to compare actual historical descriptions by Duncan McLean in The Boston Daily Atlas to other purported sources. Regardless, we still plan on referring to Chappelle's deck layout but getting it faithful to the December 20, 1850 details.

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich 

While researching bow structure for Glory of the Seas I stumbled on the exact same description of the elusive naval hoods and cutwater overlapping the stem for the bow of Stag Hound! Using plans online from the "Report on the Ship-Building Industry in the United States 1884" by Henry Hall, I sketched this 1:96th scale reconstruction of her surprisingly beautiful yacht like prow. The image is reversed since I traced the lines.

Edited July 14 by ClipperFan
Title correction

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

Afterwords, I found the large, precisely carved "half-hull" model, crafted by McKay's own son Cornelius, taken from moulding lines directly off the lofting floor as Stag Hound was being built! There's no more authoritative source than a direct descendant of Donald testifying as to the historical authenticity of his own creation honoring his father. Even more fascinating is that the image with excerpt of a letter originated in a 1928 publication by another relative, Richard McKay in his encyclopedic book "Some Famous Sailing Ships and Their Builder Donald McKay."

Two profiles are very similar with an exception being the authentic model has a more vertical underwater prow. Next step is to redraw ship and bow accurately using the McKay model.

 

Edited July 16 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

Of course, we all noticed that compared to the Chappelle plans, the Cornelius model looks a little slim. Reading the son's letter he revealed that the 30" keel has to be added below. I know for a fact too, that the uppermost monkey rail is not included on half-hull models. That adds 16-18" on top. Which would then make her appearance more full.

Here's where @Vladimir_Wairoa added in his computer imagery talents. He created profiles of the Chapelle lines and compared them to both Hall and Cornelius. It's clear that the Chappelle hull is a little short vs the Cornelius model. That's most likely due to Chappelle plans being scanned from a book where part in the center bends in. As we proceed, that will be fixed. 

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

The last Stag Hound hull and sail plan I shared comes from David MacGregor's 1973 publication "Fast Sailing Ships 1775 - 1875 Their Design and Constructiom"

[druxey]

While Chapelle's draftsmanship is excellent, unfortunately he is not always reliable. Cum grano salis...

[ClipperFan]

@druxey

Thanks for the Latin course. I had to use a translation app just to find out it simply means "with a grain of salt" or "don't take literally."

Actually, Chappelle's plans are quite close in profile to the Cornelius model. Spacing for masts and deck fittings appear to be slightly off but that could also be due to some distortion from challenges in scanning a thick book. 

The thing that has always baffled me is this. Why have such an apparently cavalier treatment of McKay's clipper ships always been given by a commercial modeling industry? Whenever I saw a McKay clipper it always bugged me how plain the bow was. In addition, it made me uncomfortable to see how awkward figureheads looked, just tacked on below a bowsprit. It makes me wonder, Lars Bruzelius did his copywrite for his website in 1999. Before that, were Boston Daily Atlas articles that hard to locate? 

Now we've learned that my suspicions were right all along. Every McKay model has been wrong. A plain stem was not how he designed his revolutionary clippers. In fact, after looking at dozens of other big American clippers, we've learned that one of Donald McKay's closely guarded secrets, which nobody else copied, was his complex prow structure. Cutwaters extended the stem. They were in turn then thoroughly bolted through on both sides by durable naval hoods, really an extension of the graceful hull. 

As a comparison, Rob shared an image of the prow of the bark Amy Turner. Typical clippers had a simple cutwater to which a figurehead was mounted. This in no way resembles the unique McKay bow. As we develop Stag Hound it will become clear how much of an advantage this rugged prow was. That will just be one of the exciting features as we finally realize McKay's first beauty.

 

 

 

Edited July 14 by ClipperFan
grammar correction

[rwiederrich]

Rich...are my eye playing tricks on me....is that an anchor billboard I see just aft of the cathead and capstan?   I was unaware McKay installed them on his clippers...or is this another error?

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich...are my eye playing tricks on me....is that an anchor billboard I see just aft of the cathead and capstan?   I was unaware McKay installed them on his clippers...or is this another error?

@rwiederrich Rob,

That's not on Glory of the Seas. My conclusion is it's an error. Most likely due to it being installed on Cutty Sark. I would leave it off.

[rwiederrich]

39 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich Rob,

That's not on Glory of the Seas. My conclusion is it's an error. Most likely due to it being installed on Cutty Sark. I would leave it off.

I agree.  It appears to be more of a British thing anyway.

 

Vlad is coming up with some nice drawings....it seams easier to correct others drawings....then to create them from scratch.  I think if it is OK with Vlad....I'll just get my laser cut bulkheads from him....if he approves.

 

Rob

[Bill Morrison]

Rob,

 

I am currently working on an old plastic kit from Revell for my grandson.  It is their Stag Hound that contains many errors.  Most egregious is that the kit has quite a few other problems, including a deck house located by the forecastle.  Your pictures are a great resource!  Thanks!

 

Bill Morrison

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Bill Morrison said:

Rob,

 

I am currently working on an old plastic kit from Revell for my grandson.  It is their Stag Hound that contains many errors.  Most egregious is that the kit has quite a few other problems, including a deck house located by the forecastle.  Your pictures are a great resource!  Thanks!

 

Bill Morrison

Hi Bill. I have that model in my stash….just for memorabilia purposes.  I’m glad the images(painting)help. Sometimes they’re all we have.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I agree.  It appears to be more of a British thing anyway.

 

Vlad is coming up with some nice drawings....it seams easier to correct others drawings....then to create them from scratch.  I think if it is OK with Vlad....I'll just get my laser cut bulkheads from him....if he approves.

 

Rob

@rwiederrich Rob,

Agreed, Vlad is a wonder on the computer. You can let me know if you agree or not. My strong feeling is that the port broadside photo of the Cornelius McKay model is the single best hull realization of any source we've located. I'm going to see if my local printer can blow it up to 2' 4", equivalent to 1:96 scale dividing 225 ft overall by 8, considering 1:96 equals 1" is 8'. To that I would add 18" (3/16th" at 1:96th scale) on top for the monkey rail, counting on the main top rail being 5' from the deck. McLean describes bulkheads as being 6 & 1/2' high. Meanwhile, the keel is described as being 30" (2 & 1/16ths") deep. The stem would extend the same, then add cutwater and naval hoods with the running canine figurehead.

I saw that the Crothers plans include the monkey rail and keel. Vladimir's grid based profile looks very close to the Cornelius model but I can't tell if it matches exactly or not. It's also unclear if Vladimir's grid profile includes monkey rail and keel or if those items still need to be added. So far he hasn't replied to my questions. 

Edited July 16 by ClipperFan
fraction correction

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

Rob,

I thought of something else too. McLean states that the rear sternpost has a 2' rake. Adding that in with a 7' overhang beyond the sternpost would push the front of the poop deck back an additional 2'. Instead of being 37' forward of the sternpost, that makes it 35'. Since the mizzenmast center is 42' from the sternpost, it would now be 7' ahead of the poop deck. Now there's enough space for a small square portico entrance to the stern apartments 3' below. Does this make sense to you? 

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

Rob,

 

I am currently working on an old plastic kit from Revell for my grandson.  It is their Stag Hound that contains many errors.  Most egregious is that the kit has quite a few other problems, including a deck house located by the forecastle.  Your pictures are a great resource!  Thanks!

 

Bill Morrison

Bill,

Depending on how clever you want to be, the Revell Stag Hound can be built into a pretty little model. Since you mention that silly little forecastle house, I'm pretty sure you've ditched it by now. Rob and Vlad learned the hard way that the forecastle deck mounts atop the monkey rail not the main top rail. The only rail surrounding the deck is the splash rail. It's actually possible to created the cutwater and naval hoods by using flash around the sails. There's plenty of that light, white plastic to spare. It all depends on how invoved you want to get.

[rwiederrich]

57 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich Rob,

Agreed, Vlad is a wonder on the computer. You can let me know if you agree or not. My strong feeling is that the port broadside photo of the Cornelius McKay model is the single best hull realization of any source we've located. I'm going to see if my local printer can blow it up to 2' 4", equivalent to 1:96 scale dividing 225 ft overall by 8, considering 1:96 equals 1'  is 8". To that I would add 18" (3/16th" at 1:96th scale) on top for the monkey rail, counting on the main top rail being 5' from the deck. McLean describes bulkheads as being 6 & 1/2' high. Meanwhile, the keel is described as being 30" (5/16ths") deep. The stem would extend the same, then add cutwater and naval hoods with the running canine figurehead.

I saw that the Crothers plans include the monkey rail and keel. Vladimir's grid based profile looks very close to the Cornelius model but I can't tell if it matches exactly or not. It's also unclear if Vladimir's grid profile includes monkey rail and keel or if those items still need to be added. So far he hasn't replied to my questions. 

McKay’s model doesn’t include the monkey rail, nor the 3’ keel. I’m not sure Vlads drawing includes neither.  His drawing should only include the monkey rail. I hope he pipes in.  
 

Rob