Golden Hind by JimO - 1/35 scale - based on Airfix 1/72 scale with modifications

[JimO]

Still waiting for delayed delivery of my SR but while waiting and biting at the bit to do something of a build I have been observing other builders doing plastic and wood Golden Hinds. 

      I did an Airtfix 1/72 scale plastic model a number of years ago and the rigging sorta sucked with the info/instructions on hand. Subsequently  I thought why not double the size to about 1/35 scale and build it with wood. Now having seen other builds that I have followed with great interest, and now having two books on rigging, I have a better grip on a build, as ambitious as it is for a first timer.

      Having some artist abilities as well as drafting skills, I have done military model and dioramas since a kid, some for my military museum I established back in 1996 and are willing to give a sailing ship scratch build a try.

   Being a foot soldier (okay an armoured recce soldier) for 37 years, I am not familiar to the nautical terminology more so sailing era, other than knowing from a few holiday ship cruises as to what is Port, (not the drink though I know that well from some rather interesting mess dinners) Starboard, Bow and Stern. The books I acquired are helping in that regard, but please excuse me if I use the well known phrase "the what-you- may-call-it" or that "thing-a-ma-jig".

     I have the time, room, some tools, music and liquid nourishment to help with the build and plan on making my own jigs, rope walk, and serving machine ( thanks Youtube ).

 

My art studio/hobby room/ new shipyard. A room the wife avoids except to get something out of the deepfreeze.

 

           

Edited December 5 by ccoyle
corrected log title

[JimO]

On 12/4/2024 at 5:25 PM, JimO said:

Still waiting for delayed delivery of my SR but while waiting and biting at the bit to do something of a build I have been observing other builders doing plastic and wood Golden Hinds. 

      I did an Airtfix 1/72 scale plastic model a number of years ago and the rigging sorta sucked with the info/instructions on hand. Subsequently  I thought why not double the size to about 1/35 scale and build it with wood. Now having seen other builds that I have followed with great interest, and now having two books on rigging, I have a better grip on a build, as ambitious as it it for a first timer.

      Having some artist abilities as well as drafting skills, I have done military model and dioramas since a kid, some for the military museum I established back in 1996 and are willing to give a sailing ship scratch build a try.

   Being a foot soldier (okay an armoured recce soldier) for 37 years, I am not familiar to the nautical terminology more so sailing era, other than knowing from a few holiday ship cruises as to what is Port, (not the drink though I know that well from some rather interesting mess dinners) Starboard, Bow and Stern. The books I acquired are helping in that regard, but please excuse me if I use the well known phrase "the what-you- may-call-it" or that "thing-a-ma-jig".

     I have the time, room, some tools, music and liquid nourishment to help with the build and plan on making my own jigs, rope walk, and serving machine ( thanks Youtube ).

 

My art studio/hobby room/ new shipyard. A room the wife avoids except to get something out of the deepfreeze.

 

           

 

Before I start and outsource for material and supplies I have some question to those out there in the know about the Golden Hind and how to build as close to the historical accuracy. of the ship.

The Airfix 1/72 scale model that I built years ago and will use to scale a 1/35 scale version differs from other builds here and also other pictures and those full size reproductions. The  questions based on mine are as follows:

 

1.      The upper side planking on the Airfix and some others show a flat application while others show a lap sytle clapboard construction. ?

2.      The Airfix shows the forward mast located forward of the front forecastle while others have it located near the front end but atop the forecastle.                Which is it historically correct?

3.       What is the number of cannon and number of gun ports along lower gun deck? Airfix has 6.

4.       Ladders and their corresponding  gaps in relation to access to each deck.    ?.  None on the Airfix model.

5.        Number/style and location for doors to each deck. Number of variations depicted on builds.

6.        Style of railings on upper decks. Open or closed? Airfix shows open with 4 deck guns sticking out.

              (side note: how would long guns like those on Airfix model fire and be reloaded with such a narrow gap between the gun trucks and the middle hatch gratings?)

7.        Window locations along ship sides and lack of on Airfix except 4 just below poop deck railing..    ?

8.        A type of post (spar?) extending out the stern of the ship by the motif figure. Missing from Airfix model and some builds but show in some images of the GH.

9.        Some type of vertical side beams along upper portion of hull missing in some builds like the Airfix one but shown in others?

10.       Location of some "deck furniture?" and lashing points.   ?

 

Thanks and looking foreword to any and all replies. may have more as things come up.

 

Attached are pictures on my GN and the variations of others plus Full size reproductions in real life.

Edited December 8 by JimO

[JimO]

th.jfifth.jfif

[JimO]

Edited December 8 by JimO

[ccoyle]

You have a well-appointed man cave!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

    I did some research a while back (buried now in my papers somewhere ... and I've commented in another build log in the past, which might be hard for me to find) on the most likely configuration of the Golden Hind (GH), which has long been depicted with great variation as to size, armaments, decoration, etc. - in that the original is long gone and with out a definitive artist's sketch or painting naming it.  The recorded testimony of Nuno Da Silva (the Portuguese navigator capture by Drake on his circumnavigation) to the Spanish authorities and also to the Inquisition provide information on the GH by someone qualified to make those assessments.  Reading a translation of the entire documents was a fascinating account of the voyage from the Caribbean to the West coast of Mexico, where Da Silva was let off.

 

  He stated that the GH was 220 tons (in Old Portuguese tons), and that converts to about 180 modern tons.  The size of the GH was about the size of the modern replica you have posted photos of (102' on deck) ... except ... note the bulging nacelles added at the waterline that were needed to make the replica seaworthy.  The 'as built' replica with a 20' beam proved unseaworthy, and the effective addition of a couple feet on either side at the waterline solved the problem - and point to a proper beam of 24 - 25 feet at the waterline.  This would have added more breadth on deck, as the hull lines would flow smoothly up from the waterline with some tumblehome.

 

  Da Silva stated the broadside was 7 guns per side through gun ports, plus 4 at the bows (2 astern as typical, and 2 forward), and that the ship was not new and of French style.  You note the problems that would exist trying to load cannon on the weather deck, and Da Silva testified that they were all below (thus having enough room to operate fully, protected from the weather and adding stability to the ship by lowering the center of gravity).  So only some anti-personnel rail guns may have been above deck.  Some contemporary depictions are included below:

 

 

    Note that there are no 'Captain's walk' on any of the above (or below) depictions.  In the Elizabethan picture above, there is a broadside of 7 (the hatch below the row of gun ports may be a 'communication' port - much like the one on the Warship Vasa.  There are 2 guns astern, and note the port for a forward firing gun at the bow (there would be another on the port side) - also like the ones on the Vasa.  This is very likely what the GH hull looked like.  The high angle of the bowsprit at that time would keep the bowsprit yard with sail above the line of sight of the near-forward pointing gun ports.

 

 

  Above is a depiction of Drakes 'Caribbean Fleet' (a later venture), and none of the ships have a Captains walk - not even the largest (one anchored and one entering).  The ship entering (firing a salute from the aforementioned forward guns) would be like the GH.

 

 

  The Drake cup, the base of which is from a coconut given to the Queen by Drake, given back to Drake as a gift from the Queen, has a 3D silver miniature GH on the lid, as well as an engraved GH on the bowl from an episode of the circumnavigation.  There is no Captain's walk on either.  Spanish ships of that era (and some other nationalities) did have captains walks, and there are pictures of these extant.  My theory is that they look fancier, and so later artists depicting the GH (then a ship of fame) with such a stern walkway because ... it just looks better.  The condition of the GH, that barely was able to limp home with treasure aboard, was likely poor.  So perhaps in the time between the ship's return and the knighting ceremony for Drake in a new docking place on the Thames, the GH was spruced up a bit up the Deptford creek and had any ornamentation re-painted - or even expanded upon.  The name change from Pelican to GH happened during the voyage, so the idea of a gilded hind as a figurehead (as well as elaborate E.R. and heraldry on the stern) seem either artistic license, or something added after the voyage.

 

 

[JimO]

Thanks for your info post. Sorry for not knowing what a “Captain’s walk” is a not sure if you mean the uppermost  rear deck  or the rear walkway that wraps around the back or stern of the ship as in my airfix model. I thought the poop deck is the top most rear deck. Reason is you show both missing in your example and I have seen other pictures depicted as the GH missing them but also pictures showing both on the ship or the walk way missing but still with the “poop deck”. So confusing. And frustrating with not knowing the nautical terminology.

   See examples. Sorry if any are doubles

[JimO]

Here are two pictures I found showing Drake  next to small deck guns, one I believe is called a “swivel gun”?

Edited December 6 by JimO

[davyboy]

Hi JimO,

 

There is a very good build log of her at 1:45th scale on the forum by a Belgian member who posts under the name Baker. May be of some help to you. Also welcome aboard MSW.

 

Dave 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Ahoy Jim !    By 'Captain's walkway' (a modern term?) I mean the 'wrap-around' gallery, or promenade that goes around the stern ... nothing to do with a quarterdeck or even a poop deck.  The wrap-around walkway was present on many Spanish ship and on larger warships of various nations.  Poking around, there is an entry in the Plymouth Black Book concerning Drake building the Pelican at Plymouth in 1575.  His circumnavigation (after a couple false starts) began from Plymouth in January of 1578 - so the Pelican (to become the Golden Hind later) was about 2 1/2 years old, and 3 years old by the time Da Silva saw it, ergo it was not 'new'.  Since it looked 'French" to Da Silva, it was most likely the latest "race built" type first adopted by the French.  The term 'race' was from the French rase' - meaning shaved - in that the poop deck was removed.

 

  You show a number of artists' depictions of the vessel that are modern, or well beyond the 16th century.  You have to take them as conjectural, all with likely good points - some getting closer to the mark, just as the more darts you throw at a dartboard the better your chances of getting one near the center.  Weighting the period testimony and period drawings more heavily, I think the (half scale) sailing version photo you posted come very near to the mark.  The Baker log has many great details, and should be looked at for tips and techniques.  In the end, no one can say for sure 'exactly' what the GH looked like.  But then most ships go through many modifications, and as experience builder note, one should try and portray a given time in a vessel's life (e.g., Polris before Shackleton bought it, as modified in England before the expedition, as modified in South America before setting out for Antartica, and stuck on the ice shelf prior to sinking.   Each will have a different appearance.)  Ergo, the way GH looked on the big voyage may well have been modified after the return so there could be a big show the next year when the French Ambassador dubbed Drake a Knight in the presence of Queen Elizabeth (my mistake to think she did the dubbing herself, since that might seem to put too much honor on who the Spanish considered a pirate)  aboard a refurbished GH.  So one could imagine a lot of added decoration and pre haps a stern walkway as well ...

 

 

[JimO]

Thanks Dave, Baker’s build looks nice and would be interesting to do. As to Snug’s comments about the Captain’s walk or rear gallery, I sorta lean to not having one but my other side leans for one as well.  The question would be that Baker’s version has an “easement hole” that the captain/officers would use as opposed to the forward head used by the remaining crew.  With no rear toilet would the captain need to have a “chamber pot” to ease himself and then have the cabin boy empty as needed, or would he and the officers use the front head and expose themself  showing what it really takes to be “captain”? Points to ponder and go hmmmm.

       In addition he (Baker) also had some additional guns.

[JimO]

Started my Golden Hind project by first de-rigging and de-masting my 1/72 scale GH ( will replace later) so as to take meassurements and resize for the scratch build GH. First I will work out what I want to do and make a new schematic drawing in 1/72 then in 1/35 scale. 
        Shown is rough draft side profile drawing  without the stern gallery. May add gallery but right now these pictures show  a six gun (12) broadside and a possible seven gun with additional bow gun  (also stern gun as was normal).  
        I may add some small guns on main deck but will have swing guns on there and other decks.

 

On 11/18/2024 at 11:26 PM, JimO said:

 

 

Edited December 8 by JimO

[JimO]

Rough draft of stern with gallery. And Drake.

Edited December 8 by JimO

[JimO]

Bow View rough draft  showing front facing bow ports.  Photo bomb by Drake playing Jack of Titanic.

[JimO]

Leaning to this line drawing version of the GH with slight change with added bow ports, mini guns on main deck and swivil guns on the other decks.  The colour plate  looks good  but minus the extra mast.

Edited December 8 by JimO

[JimO]

Marking out the keel for the framework. Where to cut.

[Baker]

Nice start. I follow.

My first scratch model was an attempt to make a copy of the GH.
good luck with yours

[JimO]

Thanks lol I just posted a question on your Mary Rose log.. Nice work.

[JimO]

Questions to those in the know please and thanks.

 

 1.           As I draw out my GH draftings drawn off measurements of the 1/72 GH and lacking any other source, I found that the main deck level is different than the bottom level of the keel. Are they to be the same or is the keel to be angled to the deck or the deck to the keel?

2.            Same question to the lower gun deck. Are the main deck and the lower gun deck level to each other? And again what would the poop deck, forecastle deck and the bow sprit deck angle be in relation to the main deck?

           Would the lower gun deck be level so that I can work out my gun ports from the bow to the stern.

I do know that the decks would have a side to side bow or curve to aid in the shedding of water off the decks but the angle of the decks from bow to center, and center to stern is as said a question to know.

 

3.        Questions I also have is in regard to the masts, both width (thickness) and length and their yard arms, actual size or in 1/35 scale.

         a. Bow Sprite 

         b. Fore Mast ( from top of forecastle deck), Fore Top Mast, and Flag pole.

         c. Main Mast ( from top of main deck), Main Top Mast, and flag pole.

         d. Mizzen Mast

         e. Yard Arms for each masts.

 

4.       Cannon/Guns and their trucks length and width, actual or in scale.

          a. Type, bore/calibe

 

5.       Rigging

           a. Anchor cable size

           b. Shrouds

           c. Deadeyes and blocks

           d. Basic

Thanks for any info.
 

Edited December 10 by JimO

[Baker]

1 hour ago, JimO said:

Questions to those in the know please and thanks.

During the construction of my GH I downloaded quite a few pdf's.
currently on vacation, just wait until next week then I will send via pm.

in case i forget, remind me

[JimO]

Thanks. Have a good vacation and enjoy the time. I’m retired so on permanent vacation for past 11 years plus.😁👍. Where are you vacationing by the way?

Edited December 11 by JimO

[Old Collingwood]

You should check out  the  Original  replica  in  Brixham  Devon UK   -  lots of  Photos  of it  on the  net.

 

OC.  

[JimO]

Thanks OC

I have seen pictures and writeup on those two,interesting but they utilize old metal boat hulls and have some descrepancy in their designs. The third replica that is also in that area, and also seen on the net is closer to historical view as it is stated that the build was based on a three year study. The problem there is that the hull has that bulge along its waterline  and due to safety issues to sail it has a wheel to stear the ship instead of a whipstaff. The stairs to the various decks I have questions about. It shows the hull and upper sides in black. Some of the features on that ship I intend to add to my build.

            Still undecided on adding a gallery to the back stern.

          

[JimO]

                 At the end of my day I decided to “split the main brace”  with a glass of Xmas Cheer, that being Eggnog with some “adult” liquid nurishment. 
                 Not sure if doing a cutout fitting of the ship ribs to the keel would be concidered a keel laying or when the actual ribs are fitted?
       That said I will of course attach some coin to the keel once I do “lay the keel” as per tradition dictates.

               
        Going to attach three coins. A Canadian penny (1 cent), a dime (10 cent) and a quarter (25 cent) to represent the scale of the ship 1/35.

      —    1 penny that are no longer used (out of ciculation since 2012), which I need to find around house somewhere.

      —    1 dime that has on reverse side the Canadian Bluenose schooner, and on obverse side the now deceased Queen Elizabeth II  second to Elizabeth I who was queen in Drakes time.

      —.   1 quarter for the quarter deck and if I can get one with our new sovereign King Charles III (not sure if in circulation yet) it would symbolize a new build.

 

The coin laying for the keel is tradition  to “ pay the ferryman” to convey the souls of the dead across the seas.

 

Of course once I start the rigging I will do a more ceremonial “splitting of the main brace”.

 

 

 

Edited December 11 by JimO

[Baker]

8 hours ago, JimO said:

Thanks. Have a good vacation and enjoy the time. I’m retired so on permanent vacation for past 11 years plus.😁👍. Where are you vacationing by the way?

Swedish Lapland.

go fishing, snowscooter, husky sled.

 

[Jim Lad]

Looks beautiful, Patrick, but I think I prefer somewhere a little warmer for my fishing!

 

John

[JimO]

We had that much snow last week but we then had what we call in this part of Canada “a chinook”  wind and now snow is all but gone.  The winds are warm blowing east off the Canadian Rocky Mountains, with temperatures some times going from -40C to + 15C in less than 24 hrs.

 

In other news as luck has it I found a Canadian 1 cent penny stamped “1976”  the year I graduated high school and the year of my deployment to Germany for a NATO fall ex.  A “2013” 10 cent dime the year I retired Both as a Reserve soldier (37 yrs) and as a Defence Science Bio/Chem Tech. (34 yrs).  And as luck would have it a “2024” 25 cent quarter with King Charles III on his first Canadian quarter as king. For those who may not know the profile for each monarch changes direction when one becomes king…or queen.

 

Today I laid a temporary keel rib layout using cardboard on the actual keel to work on hull form, plus get a feel of the size. Some of my art work in background.

 

My usual interuption by my little fur buddy “Gary” named by the grand sons. Wife wanted a small lap dog and we ended up with a neck dog LOL.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:08 PM by JimO

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Ahh, the strong wind and snow called Chinook explains the name of a military twin rotor helicopter used for troop insertion and extraction in Viet Nam.  Its powerful down drafts would subject those below to gale force winds driving dust and grit everywhere.  So it was known to Grunts as a 'Shithook'.

[Baker]

Nice find on the coins and nice military models in the background. 

I did a Nato manoeuvre in 1983.

Cardboard frames are looking great.

 

[JimO]

Thanks.  What was the thickness of your hull planks as I would use the same but need to subtract it from the rib width . 
 

           Snug the Chinook winds can occur any time of the year but it is more welcome in the dead of winter after a long and bitter cold spell. To say the winds can be strong is an understatement with  wind warnings sometimes inforced for truckers. Some images indicating a chinook is coming your way with the infamous “Chinook Arch”.

           Some other Canadian Chinooks plus a Griffons and a Kiowa which as an armoured recce patrol commander I was trained to do helo ops in as part of wheeled recce. Was a fun part of my training.

           When I was in Germany Canada was still using the Centurian tank which I think was the last or second last NATO ex they were used.  The first Leopard  ( the rent a tank version) arrived  just before I left.