Pride of Baltimore 2 by Bill Hime - Model Shipways - 1:64 scale

[ASAT]

Bill, as to the bulkheads - get some basswood or equivalent ply at your local hobby store and make some new ones... much easier than fighting the wood. The Wenge does  have some pretty large grain - I prefer walnut, bubinga, or many of the rosewoods depending on the color scheme I am trying to achieve  for Keel, stem, top rail, etc. but in the end it's your ship so go for what you like...

 

Lou

[Bill Hime]

Casey,

 

I've posted more pics than text thus far, lol. I'm only using Wenge for the keel, plankshears and rails. Perhaps some other small details. Wenge is a great wood, and as long as you select pieces with a tighter grain and cut your pieces to run with the grain it should look quite nice

 

Sudomekh,

 

You should start a build log and reference it when wanting to give an example..

 

 

Bill.

[Bill Hime]

Hey Lou,

 

Thanks for stopping by! I might be incline to replace the bulkheads, we'll see. As far as Wenge, I've picked my pieces carefully, we'ii see how they turn out

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

[sudomekh]

 

 

 

Sudomekh,

 

You should start a build log and reference it when wanting to give an example..

 

 

Bill.

 

... I have articles on Russian forums ... model began to build over three years ago .... now I'm working on a ship at sea for 8 months ... I am in Pusan ​​Port now

 

... if you can not do that as I do .... you tell me ... and I'll just read sometimes

[sudomekh]

I think Google does not always translate correctly

 

 

... if I can not write in the forum .... you tell me .... and I will not do so

 

Sorry!

[egkb]

Bill can I back-track you a bit.. you mentioned 'Scoring and Gluing' earlier to straighten the false keel (sorry to bring you so far back, but a lot of posts happened in the middle there whilst I was away from the computer:) )

Could you describe this technique to me as I haven't heard of it before.

 

Thanks in Advance

 

Eamonn

[Bill Hime]

Eamonn,

 

Definitely! Scoring is basically etching a line in wood. Often used in mortise and tenon work to create a stopping point when trimming out with a chisel so the cut does not peel out past the intended area.

Scoring can also be repeated cuts across grain to relieve stress in the wood and relax a bow in a board. My center keel had a significant bow in it's length. After scoring the keel in several spots along it's length, I then applied glue brushed deep into the scoring lines followed by clamping/pressing. The glue was to protect the joints from chipping out.

I cut approx. 1/2 the thickness of the center keel lumber. I'm delighted to say my center keel came out flat  See example below:

 

 

Thanks for asking, Bill

 

[Bill Hime]

Keel is successfully flattened! So moving on to establishing bearding line and beveling bulkheads. I laid them all out on the 1:1 plans and see what appears to me, as a significant variance, pieces not quite lining up with drawings..consistently undersized.

 

In the below pictures, the Center Keel concerns me most. What would be the best way to establish the bearding line since the Center Keel is short on the plan across the bottom and length by as much as 3/32"?

I would like some good input on this since fairing the keel line is a one time chance to get it right !

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the bulkheads go, is this variance expected and/or expected?

 

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

[ASAT]

Bill, thatmuch varience is to be expected, plans will shrink / expand depending on humidity. The bearding line can be set with reference to the bottom of the bulkheads and corresponding to the plan, just fudge them a bit to cover the discrepency and you will be OK...

 

Lou

[Bill Hime]

Lou,

 

Thank you for the response !

 

 

Bill

[ASAT]

You bet, I forgot to add that your bulkheads look symmetrical but you can check them by tracing their outline and then fold the tracings on the centerlines. That would give you a reference to shim or trim depeding on the shape on the plans. I pretty much forego that step anymore as I usually do all of my shimming and trimmingduring the fairing process before planking, but it does reveal any gross disparity. Is the bearding line depicted on the plans? If not, just flow a nice curve where the rabbit and bulkheads start deviating at the last few bulkheads. The sternpost joining area is the critical dimension so you have enough clearance to run the planking fair into the sternpost.

 

Lou

Edited December 2, 2013 by ASAT

[egkb]

Brilliant little tutorial there Bill re Scoring & Gluing to remove a 'Bow' ... thanks again for taking the time out to explain! had never heard of that method

 

Best of Luck with the build, am watching and learning over here!

 

Eamonn

[aliluke]

Hi Bill

I agree with Lou in all respects. The plans are just plans. You can be very intuitive about the build around the planking. Get the planking flow right with respect to the frames you have and go for it. If the hull shape doesn't exactly match the plans; no one will know.The biggest lesson, that I still forget, is getting the relationship between the deck, wale and gun port sills right...but that is later. Good work on the keel flattening - you are underway and your woodworking skills make this one to watch.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[augie]

Lou has you in the right place....again!  Your wood is probably a little dry and the variance is in the ballpark.  You'll be fine tuning everything when you fair the hull.

 

Plans are also affected by ambient conditions to some extent.  I tend to treat them like the Bible.

 

I have a feeling I'll be learning more from you then I can ever return!

[jcoby]

I had the same issues with the bulkheads. I simply soaked some of the included 1/4" basswood in water for 30s and thin CA glued it to the bulkheads as needed. Seems like I had 4-6 that needed this treatment after fairing including a couple at the top. One set of bulkheads needed no sanding at the top.

 

I had no issues with the false keel matching the plans. There are no references on the plans to make sure they are to scale so it is possible that the printer was out of whack that day or your plans have swollen. The important thing is that the keel matches the false keel and that the bearding line is true.

 

My plans were accurate enough that I used the planking diagram to mark the hull and ended up within a few thou of what the plans called for.

 

I also had some warpage to my false keel but not nearly as extreme. When you go to install the first set of planks be sure to true the false keel as you go. It is very very easy to warp it as you glue and it's impossible to fix after you start planking and it will haunt you for the rest of the build.

 

Having never built a ship before I find that the plans can be a bit vague in places and the instructions are good for the first few pages and then they give up when it comes to the hard details.

[jcoby]

Oh, and you might want to add a bit of support behind the forward 5 (or so) bulkheads. A 1/2" block of balsa would be sufficient.

 

The #3 bulkhead on both sides warped aft about 1/16" from the planking process. It caused no visible problems but it does make the planking spacing a bit off. It won't be visible on mine since I will be painting but if you are going to leave it natural it will be visible.

[Bill Hime]

Thanks everyone for the input !

 

Alistair, 

Thank you keeping track of me and keep the input coming

 

Augie,

It gives me a sense of confidence knowing you're watching over my shoulder, thank you :)

 

jcoby,

I can't tell you how much I appreciate having another Pride build going on here, (and a little further along ). Your input is invaluable, Thank you!

 

And now to all of you, I'm The Apprentice Here, LOL! If anything amazing happens here is because of your guidance. 

 

Today, I'm fairing bulkheads, establishing a good dry fit and hopefully fairing the bearding line as well. Going to spend the rest of the day in the shipyard, thanks to the graciousness of my Admiral

 

 

Bill

[rlb]

Bill,

 

I hope you will enjoy this small scale work--how different is it from your cabinetry experience?

 

Your enthusiasm is great.  I'm following along. 

 

Ron

[Bill Hime]

Ron,

 

What a pleasure to have you stop in. I've nothing but admiration for your skills. The detail on your Oneida build is first rate to say the least. This scale and cabinetry/furniture making is worlds apart!Not to mention, the learning curve of knowing nothing about the subject matter except my love for tall ships.

This is truly where I belong and I'm loving every step of the journey

You know, a good carpenter is confident and comfortable with his tools and his trade...A great carpenter never lets himself get comfortable but continues to challenge himself.

I have a great deal to learn...Forever the apprentice

 

 

Bill

[Bill Hime]

Faired the bulkheads today. Took quite a bit of tweaking to get them to settle into the center keel slots. Below is my first initial dry fit. I took some close ups, you can see there is little space for the bearding line across the mid keel length. My first thought is to buildup the top of the center keel and raise the bulkheads up to meet it flush. I'm thinking 3/32". This seems easier than altering the shape of the bulkheads and thus the shape of the hull is preserved..

 

Your thoughts are welcomed as always !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, thanks to all of you!

 

Bill

[aliluke]

Hi Bill

I'd be inclined to do the opposite of your approach. I'd lower the bulkheads by deepening the slot until their top edge is flush with the centre keel. If, on their lower edge, they are still too high above the bearding line I'd add shims to those edges until they all lined up. Test the shimming and fairing with a random plank and see how it flows. I think messing with the false keel is dangerous and getting the bulkheads to settle flush with it is as much about the outer planking as it is about the deck sitting properly. I had all of these issues on my AVS and never altered anything other than the bulkheads (and I had to alter them severely - shims and fairing).

 

That's my opinion - it is an interesting dilemma and I wonder what others think?

 

By the way, very nice lines on this ship - looking good.

 

Cheers

Alistair

 

P.S. I also add the keel and stem post before fixing the bulkheads in place. This allows this addition to be done on a flat surface and too be made very strong. Leave off the stern post until later. Others disagree with this, others agree with it...a coin toss and personal preference.

Edited December 3, 2013 by aliluke

[Bill Hime]

Alistair,

 

Thanks for the input. the tops are all reasonably flush. Issue is that several bulkheads hang low into the bearding line. After drawing the bearding line on my center keel, I now realize that I only have 3 offending bulkheads. So my initial thought was not particularly a good one, oops!

 

I'll shape the tails enough to bring them in line with the bearding line.

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

[augie]

Yes, if it's just a few 'offenders', you are much better off bringing them in line with everyone else.  I'm with Alistair on getting the stem and keel on while you can keep everything flat.  But remember, we're not looking at your plans to see if that might cause any problems down the road....always keep that in mind.

 

Looks great so far.  Get those bulkheads in squarely.  As a carpenter you know how important this is.  You'll be doing the final fairing once everything is in place and solid.

 

Do they call for any filler blocks or supports between the bulkheads?

[jcoby]

That looks exactly like what I had at that step. The bulkheads are hand drawn and the laser cuts are an exact copy of the drawings. Some are off. You will need to add material to several of them. Use strips of planking to get an idea of how the hull is flowing and sand as you go.

 

Just wait until you try to put together the life boat! 

 

The important thing here is that the reference line you made on the bulkheads matches the line on the false keel and that you fair the bulkheads in the correct direction. The fairing lines on the plans are pretty darn accurate once you get the bulkheads sized so you can be pretty aggressive about removing material. It's far easier to remove it before the bulkheads are installed.

 

I would also recommend taking the planksheer and placing it on top of the bulkheads for reference. You cannot adjust it and the hull must match the planksheer for everything to look sweet. The planksheer needs to sit outboard of the bulkheads by one wale plank width. (IIRC the wale is made of 1/8" square stock).

 

The plans also call for the blocks that the mast goes into be rounded. I thought this was insane. I could not figure out a good way to put an accurate round pocket into a square hole without using a mill so I just left it square and am careful when shaping the masts to get a good fit. You can see the hole for the fore mast and the main mast fitted in the picture below.

 

[Bill Hime]

I discovered pretty quick last night after drawing the bearding line on the center keel that I just need to re-size the 3 offenders.  So today I will do just that. My next step will be to lay out the keel, stem and rudder on the Wenge wood replacement.

I think I will fasten the Wenge wood keel and stem before cutting in the bearding line with a sharp chisel. It will actually give me more control cutting up to the Wenge, especially with it being a substantially harder wood. I will use a plank to check the depth as I progress.

 

Alistair,

Thanks for the quick feedback last night. You are definitely spot on !

 

Augie,

Yes it does call for some blocking. I plan to start with the middle two bulkheads, square them with blocking then work out from center. I'm sure I'll have a few more " not so good ideas" in this journey, lol. I just go back to what I was told by a wise Admiral, "Take your time",

 

jcoby,

Thanks for the feedback, and peak into the future ! I think I just had an answer to the mast receiving blocks. join two blocks together, drill a hole for the mast. Then cut the block in half, removing enough material from each to account for the thickness of the center keel. Align on each side and glue.

Lol, but that's a way's away. Thank you again, your insight is invaluable to me :)

[jcoby]

 

Thanks for the feedback, and peak into the future ! I think I just had an answer to the mast receiving blocks. join two blocks together, drill a hole for the mast. Then cut the block in half, removing enough material from each to account for the thickness of the center keel. Align on each side and glue.

Lol, but that's a way's away. Thank you again, your insight is invaluable to me :)

 

You might be able to use some newspaper and some thinned wood glue to bond the blocks to a spacer and then drill the hole using a drill press and vice. Apply some isopropyl alcohol to remove the glue and newspaper afterwords.

 

Getting the hole drilled is half the battle. The other half is getting it lined up with the slot in the false keel at the proper angle. With the slot method you can simply trim or shim side to side to get the mast true. Fore-aft comes for free since the slot in the false keel is already at the right angle.

 

I guess you could insert the mast into the hole to make sure everything is lined up and then true the top of the block to the deck. Or you could just glue those blocks on however you want and put a tenon on the mast like I did! 

 

Also FWIW I used wood glue on the mast and bow blocks and CA everywhere else. I wanted to get max strength into those blocks since there is absolutely no way to fix them if one comes loose. I also coated each joint of the bulkheads with a fillet of glue.

 

And I coated the inside of the decked hull with wood glue thinned ~30% to keep the planks from moving around during final sanding. The distance between the bulkheads is a bit far IMO–I would add one or two more bulkheads if I were to revise the plans.

[Bill Hime]

Bulkheads all fit as they should now. Today I started laying out the keel pieces on the Wenge wood replacement. After trying to mark out the patterns with assorted white pencils, I decided to cut typing paper to board size, coated the paper using a Elmer's glue stick. I then surface sanded the board barely wiping it clean. Finally, I applied the paper to the wood and ready to trace kit supplied pieces on to it.

Below are pictures of the steps.

I work the next couple of days so I'll probably cut these out on my new scroll saw, (Thank to my Admiral!) Friday night

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[ASAT]

Looking good Bill - that wenge looks nice, will be a awesome contrast with the boxwood planking....  BTW - what kind of scroll saw did you get?

 

Lou

[capnharv2]

Bill,

 

One word of caution-when I built my POB2, I found the 2 piece planksheers, when assembled on the deck, were about 1/4" too short. You might want to test fit the basswood ones before cutting into the Wenge.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[Bill Hime]

Hey Lou,

 

Thank you! Another thing I learned working with the Wenge is that with sanding, the open pores quickly fill with saw dust. Add a little linseed oil to the sanding and that should help cover any of those defects.

Heck, on the saw, I'm not sure off the top of my head. It was a cheap off-brand. I picked it up at the local home store at cost on black Friday, lol. I'm hoping my skills will make up for the quality of the tool . I just needed something to start using now. I will definitely upgrade in the future.

 

Harvey,

 

Thank you! I actually saw that in a sample practicum by Robert Hunt. He said it was a defect in the kit design. After hearing it from two sources, I'll definately make a card stock template with the two bow points together. Then if necessary, I'll cut both ends off and use the new piece to complete it

 

 

Thanks Guys!

 

Bill