Frigate Confederacy by ir3 - Model Shipways

[ir3]

The build has started and has met it's 1st question of many. It appears that the completed stem is 1/8" taller than shown on the plans. This causes a serious misfit on the bulkhead former. I can fix this by adding some 1/8 filler in the stem but I am curious as to how this might have happened. Any thoughts?

 

IR3

 

 

[Trussben]

Hi, nice to see another Confederacy build, I had the exact same issue when I started her, did you buy the kit when it first came out 18 months ago?

I have seen some of the recent ones and they don't have this issue.

I just covered the gap with the beakhead deck planking and it hasn't caused me any issues so far.

 

Or you can contact MS and get new stem pieces to see if they are any better.

 

I look forward to following along with your build.

 

Ben

[ir3]

Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for the information. Yes, I believe this is an early kit since the parts list is early 2012, although the list matches the 2013 list. I will proceed as you did and hopefully there are no show stoppers for a while. Since there are some great build threads, I will not be doing step by step updates but just where there might be a difference in the other builds or I run into a problem. I will, however do some summary updates after completeing a major section of the instruction manual.

 

Happy New year to all,

 

Iran Ausley

[augie]

I'm going to say Ben is right.  I got my kit in mid 2013 and did not encounter this.  As long as the fit along the curve of the bulkhead is good and tight, the beakhead planking should cover the gap.

[ir3]

Thanks for the input on the kit differences for the stem. I have the stem thinned and stained. I am starting with the 30 - 70 percent mix and I find it quite nice. I am a bit confused as to why the stain is darker on one side of the stem than the other but attribute to perhaps differences in the wood grain or I just went a bit heavier on one side.

 

I will be doing the planking and decks in boxwood. I have never worked with boxwood before but I understand it easy to work with and takes stain evenly. It will be a while until Jeff can get the boxwood order filled so I will get the hull ready for planking and do some other items that can be worked while off the hull such as the cannons.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

[Trussben]

Hi ir3,

 

If you are going to use boxwood you shouldn't have to stain it at all, I used boxwood for some parts and the color matched the stained 30/70 golden oak basswood very well, but do some testing before you commit it to your model.

As for staining basswood you have to be very careful not to go too dark as it causes a blotchy effect, that's what I have found anyway and believe me I've done quite a few experiments with different stains, I even tried a ebony stain for the wales but it just didn't take it well and I ended up painting them.

Please think of doing updates as you go, it's great for us people watching and will help somebody else doing the build in the future - I just love to see progress like that and how different people tackle the problems that arise.

 

Ben

[augie]

Are you using a pre-stain on your basswood?  I've found that helps to even out the color.

[Chuck]

My guess is that when you glued the pieces together the lower parts of the stem were not assembled at the correct angles.   The scrph joints are tricky and the pieces should be assembled over the plan to get the proper curve in the stem.   It also depend on how much of the laser char you sanded off.  If not enough char was removed to get a nice tight fit...the creep could have made teh entire assembly slightly larger.  All of these factors will compound to make the piece oversized...in addition,  measure your plans scale bar to see that it is printed at the correct scale.  You plan may also be too small.

 

It could be tons of things actually...the laser parts could be off as well.

 

Great start either way.

 

Chuck

[ir3]

I have never used boxwood before and have no idea of the color. Following Ben's recommendation, the boxwood will be left natural. When I picked up the MinWax stains I did see the pre-stain but did not pick some up. Will do next time I am in the store. Yes Chuck, I did not build above the plan which was a big error.    However, with a bit of sanding the stem fit very nicely and I followed up with the keel and false keel installation.    There is lots to learn and it is great that there is a lot of expertise to draw from.

 

My next attention went to checking fit of the bulkheads. I started with center lines on the bulkheads and they match up perfectly with the center of the bulkhead former. They are dry fitted for now only to check the centering. the pictures are a bit distorted due to the wierd camer angle. As each one is glued in they will be set 90 degrees to the bulkhead former. It almost feels like lining up the fuselage formers on a model airplane.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

[ir3]

All of the bulkheads are now installed. It reminds me of a part of "Inherit The Wind" with Spencer Tracey where he has Bryan on the witness stand and he is talking about progress. I don't remember it exactly but he talks about the telephone but you lose your privacy. He also talks about the airplane but you lose the beauty of a bird in flight.

 

Now in this hi tech day and age we have cameras that can record the finest details and scanners that can accurately scan these fine details. And then there is the very acurate laser cutter. We enjoy the ability to produce very accurate and concise parts for our hobbies but "we spend hours removing the laser burn"

 

I spent a good deal of time removing laser burn on the edges of the frames before it dawned on me that this will resolve itself when the hull is prepared for planking. Live and learn.

 

A few pics showing my high tech keel clamp and the 2" machinists right angle plate.

 

The pics show the start of adding bulkheads and the hi tect equipment associated with the process.

Edited December 31, 2013 by ir3

[ir3]

Filler and bow blocks are in. Next task, the lower gundeck planking. I am now up to Rev.1 on the keel clamp. I saw this on Augie's thread and found one on line. Not an easy item to get.

 

There are 3 sets of bow blocks that are marked Mizzen, Main, and Fore mast. I haven't found these in the instructions as of yet. I assume they are used of one is going to install stump masts or fully rig the model.

 

Have a great new year and "Live long and prosper".

 

IR3

[augie]

Hey, nice clamp

 

Yup those extra fillers go in at, I believe FR 2, 7 and 13.  Check against the plans where the mast holes go.  I put them in myself (couldn't hurt).

 

Happy New Year!

[Trussben]

Hi Ir3,

 

Glad to see that you are using a longer keel clamp, the hull is so long on this kit that she is Very prone to warping, it's happened to a few people so be aware, every now and again take her out and check that your keel is perfectly strait, but whatever you do don't leave her out of the clamp for long until all the port sills/lintels and upper hull planking is complete, this way there is almost no chance of it warping.

 

Ben

[ir3]

Thanks Ben for the advice on keeping her clamped. She is still perfectly straight.

 

Still playing catchup and have the hull ready for fairing. I am employing the high tech hull clamper to get this part of the job done. Quoting Augie, a lot of time has been spent on the hull so far and "...I am only on page 11...". But this is OK since the success of the model depends entirely on taking care of the early stages of hull construction.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

[ir3]

Bingo, made it to the start of Chapter 3 (page 13). The sanding of the hull is nearly complete. The bow and stern sanding will need some fine tuning once I get close to planking. Now it is time to have some fun with more construction. I sure am glad the other builds are a lot further along. A wealth of knowledge and building skills.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

[augie]

Exposed frames look great. 

[ir3]

I have just discovered what could be a major problem. I started working on the stern and something caught my eye. I noticed a slight twist in the hull. The hull is perfectly straight longitudinally but the twist is there. When I assembled the bulkheads I thought I had the bulkhead former perfectly straight and flat but I guess it wasn't. The question is, should I continue putting in all of the of the gun port framing and other framing pieces into the hull or should I make a special jig correct the twist and put a group of planks on both sides of the hull. I figure it shouldn't take more than 8 to 10 planks on both sides to hold the hull straignt once removed from the jig.

 

I would sure like to hear from others who may have run into this problem with this or any other build. Worst case is the slight twist stays and hopefully not too noticable.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Iran

[augie]

I'm stumped on this one.  You really want to get it straight.  Hopefully Chuck will chime in ...... or maybe shoot him a PM?

[ir3]

I think I have found a solution to the problem. I hope the explanation is sufficient. I plan on using a piece of 1/8" music wire. It is very stiff and should make a good torque rod. There will be a 1.5" bend at both ends and be placed into 1/8" holes drilled at either FR1,FR2 and FR6. The wire will be below the deck and will only be visible through one of the deck hatches. This hatch I can keep covered. With the proper amount of reverse twist in the wire I believe I can correct the twist in the hull. The twist seems to start aft of the center bulkhead.

 

More to follow.

 

IR3

 

An afterthought. The wire can be removed once a sufficient number of planks have been installed.

Edited January 5, 2014 by ir3

[ir3]

Bingo,

 

I think I found the source of the problem. Bulkhead G was installed slightly skewed off the center line of the bulkhead former. This gave the illusion that the hull was twisted. The eyes can play funny tricks sometimes. I have bulkhead G removed with all of the fillers. After some sanding I can put it all back to gether and get on with the build and some peace of mind.

 

IR3

[augie]

Glad to hear that.

[Trussben]

Nice to hear it was just one bulkhead!

You really don't want any twist anywhere on the hull because you WILL see it later on, just ask ChrisLBren.

 

Photos would be nice of your progress.

 

Ben

[ir3]

Back to the build after several days of thing to do around the house. The stern assembly is finished and was not an easy thing to accomplish. With my eyesight and lack of ability to read a ruler it was a chore. The next step in the instructions is to add filler strips to aid in the planking and then the false deck. I still need to paint the exposed areas above the lower decks black.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

 

A PICTURE SURE SHOWS LITTLE ERRORS. ONE OF THE OPENINGS NEEDS TO BE SQUARED UP. WILL DO THIS IMMEDIATELY.

Edited January 8, 2014 by ir3

[ir3]

I installed the false deck. There was still some twist in the hull and so before installing the deck I added a jig to take the twist out. With the jig in place the twist was out completely and I thought that installing the deck would fix the problem. It did not. My only hope is that when I get to planking the hull I will put the jig back in place and hopefully after installing all of the upper planks it will be enough to prevent the twist from returning.

 

The actual installation of the deck followed the instructions pretty closely with slight sanding of the slots to get a good fit. I will be planking the aft side of the beakhead bulkhead (that's a mouthfull) with basswood but hold off on the forward side and the small deck until I receive my boxwood order. That is slated to be sometime after March 24th but there is a bit of work to accomplish befor then.

 

I will also be sharing a good part of the time with my "BIG BOAT", an Engel 78" German Type VII static diving submarine. I just received a part that I have needed since April and can now get back on that project. That hull is not twisted! The link to the thread is http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1819581. The thread is to show differences from the standard build to a modified build.

 

Until next time,

 

IR3

[ir3]

I just started reading ahead and if I start on the gun port framing I am just adding to the problem. I will then have to not only take out the twist in the existing hull as it is now but I would be making the problem worse by adding the port framing. If anyone has a suggestion at this point I would sure like to hear it. I could dampen the entire keel bulkhead and try to fix the twist while wet but I did not use waterproof glue so that might not be such a good idea.

 

HELP!!!!!

[augie]

Just dampening, not soaking, the keel bulkhead should only soften the glue (assuming you used a type PVA).  If you could then jury rig an arrangement to overtwist her slightly and let her dry it might help.  I might suggest you try original Windex (the one with ammonia) as it penetrates the wood faster then plain water.  Clamp her straight of course the minute you release the pressure.  If you see any improvement at all you can always repeat.

 

As Chuck once told me 'you don't want to build a banana'.  The sooner you get out the twist the better as the more parts you add, the harder it becomes to resolve.  I really can't see it in your photos but obviously you have.

 

Best of luck IR.

[ir3]

Thanks Augie. I did try over the last 24 hours to do several applications of Windex Ammonia and twisting the hull but to no avail. I think that once the fillers blocks are in and the deck fastened the chances of untwisting the hull are close to zero. I checked with Chuck and we sort of agree that I should build a new hull. I know what my mistakes are so the second one should be close to perfect. I am checking in with Model Expo to see if I can get the laser cut sheets that have all the hull components. We shall see. In the meantime I am back to working on my Engle Type VII submarine. I wonder if this forum could use a Submarine Thread.

 

I will stay up to date as events unfold.

 

Iran

[ChrisLBren]

Hi Iran,

I agree with starting over here - depending on how bad the twist was.  My rear bulkhead former was slightly warped (less than 1/16th of an inch in the rear corner when placed on a piece of glass face down) At the time I couldn't get any perfect plywood as it was winter in Chicago and after so many botched attempts (I was new to the scroll saw at the time) - I settled for using it.   I too thought extra formers would fix it - it never did and i spent the rest of the build compensating for it.  Its not too noticeable on my hull - only from certain angles.  If you look dead on my stern and its fixed perfectly perpendicular in the build board, then look at the beak head bulkhead - it lists slightly to the port and vice versa looking at the stern from the bow. 

 

You can find my log under the scratch build sections if you haven't already seen it.

 

Chris

Edited January 9, 2014 by ChrisLBren

[Trussben]

Hi Iran, sorry to hear the twist/warping has not abated, can you try and get a head on pic so we can see where and how bad it is if possible????

Is it down the long length of the hull or one bulkhead just twisted?

If it's down the long length you may be able to correct it with some stragically placed fillers, but if ME will send you new parts then I would agree with Chuck to restart.

Nothing more important than having that skeleton perfect, even if it takes a month to get it that way!

Good luck man!

 

Ben

[ir3]

Hi Ben,

 

The twist is quite prominent from the mid frame back. I believe the error started when I attached the keel. The keel pieces were not square. My error. I should have made sure of this when I removed them from laser cut sheet. Once the keel was glued in place clamping the keel to put the formers in probably introduced the slight twist. Of course each frame went in dead center and square to the bulkhead former but the twist was surely still there. Then came the filler blocks which also went in just fine. I did mount the beakhead former a bit out of line but corrected that assuming it was an optical illusion when I sighted down the hull at that point. It was after I assembled the transom that the glaring twist showed up. At that point I guess it was too late. Lesson learned. I am sure I can get the pieces I need from ME and start over again.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Iran