HMS Fly by Martin W - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Martin, I used the kit gratings.

 

Once I had got the round in the head ledges I was happy with I inserted the made up grating and and simply sanded it from the centre each side to match.

 

Here's a link to how the finished one for the Fore hatch looked.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/332-hms-pegasus-by-blue-ensign-victory-models-enhancing-the-kit-a-build-log-of-sorts/page-2

 

It doesn't really matter that it is too thick  because once in place it doesn't show.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Thanks again for the tips, everyone, they're helping me enormously.  The kit's gratings looked better that I had expected, so I decided to use them -- and they look good in everyone else's build as well.  They go together very easily, and they hold up under sanding much better than I'd expected.  Here's what I did.

 

First I just roughed out the frame of the coamings at about 3mm & head frames at about 5 mm.  I wanted to try to do the rounding -- and at this stage I am still thinking very much in terms of prototypes, seeing which procedure works best and looks best on my main deck.

 

I started sanding, and here you can see where I've gotten about a third of the way.  I began with 180 grit paper, laying it flat on the table and moving the head frames over it in a slight rocking motion.  I soon decided 180 was too, too aggressive, so switched to 220, and then 320.

 

Here's pretty much where I ended up (I still have to round off the corners, and sand the sides).  The sides (coamings) presented a bit of a problem here, since geometrically I couldn't get the grating to round down to the coaming, or the head rails to round down without also rounding off the edges of the coamings.  I got a tiny piece of 400 grit paper and lightly sanding the gratings to get them just about where I wanted.

 

Here's the piece in place:  this prototype is the "Lying atop the Planks" version; others will follow.  To get this one to fit the curve of the deck, I laid a piece of 320 grit paper on the deck, then slid the hatch back and forth to conform to the shape I wanted.

 

Tonight, I'll start on Prototype #2:  the "Fitting within the Planks" version.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

 

[Martin W]

Well, I didn't manage to work on Prototype #2 as planned (someone brought home a bushel of basel from the farmer's market, so I made pesto instead).

 

I did manage to put in some trenails.  This time the gods smiled on me (it must have been the pesto), and I got the Swiss pear down to #21 on the drawplate, which enabled me to use a 79 drillbit.

 

Here's how it looks:

 

 

I also want to say thanks for the link, BE.  I haven't looked at the early pages of your log on this site for a while.  These seem to have a few different details, which make me think I should spend some time looking them over.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited June 25, 2014 by Martin W

[aliluke]

Hi Martin

A couple of thoughts...

 

I don't think you want the grate to project above the coaming. This applies to the side of your grates. They should sit fully inside the coaming and the exposed edges of the grating on the sides is awkward.

 

If you can, try and set out and cut the gratings so you form a full frame at their perimeter. I managed this with all my main deck gratings but failed to so on the QD gratings. That was just the way they worked out and I think I had my eye off the ball a bit as well.

 

I'm still not convinced by the heavily curved grating and coaming versus a flatter version. I guess that is just a matter of taste.

[Martin W]

I hear what you're saying, Alistair.  At first -- in the mind's eye stage -- I thought curved lines would look good.  Last night, as I got down to working on the ladder way, the image of curved head rails began to seem out of place, at least for that particular opening & frame (if nothing else, a heightened frame to accommodate a curve would give something for busy sailors to trip over).

 

Your critique of the grating is also appreciated.  I got them to line up as a frame on the athwartships sides, but since I was thinking about curved lines and sanding utterly neglect to think about the for & aft lines (ie along the sides).  You're right that they look awkward, and I think that in a redo it will be an easy detail to correct.  Right now it's still just sitting there without glued permanence, so another version won't hurt me, especially while I still have the muscle memory of making this one.

 

But here's a question that came to me as I was beginning the ladderway.  First off, I notice that neither you nor BE has a ladder way on the main deck -- and I really only noticed that last night.  Next, I looked at the NMM plans, and they do show a ladder going down from the main deck to the lower deck.  BUT the entire series of ladders -- from the QD to the Main Deck and then to the Lower Deck -- is AFT of the Capstan, not fore as in this kit.  Probably all of you have already noticed that, but it surprised and puzzled me.

 

Hmmm.

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

I'm not sure I follow your understanding of the Ladderways Martin.

 

There is a ladderway at the fore end of the Upper deck, and another one behind the Capstan on the Upper deck both leading to the Lower deck. I have fitted the fore hatch ladder, but the aft hatch ladderway is covered by a grating, and I saw little point in fitting a ladder, particularly as the whole set up is covered by the Quarterdeck.

 

The ladderway from the Quarterdeck to the Upper deck is, as on the plans and the kit, forward of the Upper Capstan.

 

Regarding the coamings and head ledges; to finish those off the grating has to be removed, and to get the grating edges flush with the coamings they also have to have careful final shaping  out of the framing.

 

When I made up my hatchways I first  made the gratings to the closest full segments, and then built the framing around them. This avoids having those niggling little stubs sticking out of the edges.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

 

 

[Donny]

Lovely work. I enjoy your attention to detail and can learn a lot from your build techniques. Many thanks.

 

Donny A

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, BE & Donny.  Your kind words are encouraging.

 

BE -- I've pretty much faced up to doing the aft hatch coaming & grating over again.  I think I have plenty of boxwood in this dimension, so a few mistakes and redos won't break the wood bank.

 

As for the relation of the captsan to the ladders, my NMM plans show the capstan pretty far forward, almost to the edge of the QD.  It, along with the ladders, are shown in red ink.  Right now my scanner doesn't seem to work with my new (unexcitingly new) computer, so I can't show you -- and am not even sure I would be legally able.  I only have the lines & profile, so the deck plans might show something different.  Here's a link to the plans in the NMM site, so perhaps you can bring your experience to bear in telling me what I'm not seeing:

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/84458.html

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

I've looked at the plans for Fly Martin, they are essentially the same as Pegasus.

 

As far as I can see the ladder way from the Qd down to the upper deck is forward of the capstan on the QD. The railings just forward of the Capstan can clearly be seen.

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Och! BE -- I've just been staring at my plans (wait a minute, don't I have some work to do?), and here's what I understand:  the ladder from QD to the main deck is forward of the capstan, just as you say.  Then the ladders from the main deck to the lower deck and from there to the orlop (?) are aft of the capstan.  Yes? 

 

I hate to be a pill, but I've started worrying that I was seeing backwards.  In fact, I wasn't seeing the ladder from the QD.

 

Thanks for being patient, BE.

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

That's how I see it Martin, although on my Pegasus the after hatch is battened down and covered by the grating.

 

ps: I have too many senior moments these days not to be patient.

 

Cheers B.E.

[aliluke]

I'm in full agreement with B.E. here Martin. I have also made the ladder at the fore end of the main deck just haven't installed it yet.

[Martin W]

Thanks for the input, Alistair.  When I get to the QD, I'll do my best to put the ladder where it belongs.  And in the meantime, maybe I should take an adult-education course in reading ships' plans. 

 

And thanks to everyone else for the likes.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Thanks for checking in, BE & Donny.  Your kind words are encouraging.

 

BE -- I've pretty much faced up to doing the aft hatch coaming & grating over again.  I think I have plenty of boxwood in this dimension, so a few mistakes and redos won't break the wood bank.

 

As for the relation of the captsan to the ladders, my NMM plans show the capstan pretty far forward, almost to the edge of the QD.  It, along with the ladders, are shown in red ink.  Right now my scanner doesn't seem to work with my new (unexcitingly new) computer, so I can't show you -- and am not even sure I would be legally able.  I only have the lines & profile, so the deck plans might show something different.  Here's a link to the plans in the NMM site, so perhaps you can bring your experience to bear in telling me what I'm not seeing:

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/84458.html

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

Martin,

 

thanks for that very informative link to the Swan Class decks and interior, (here for HMS Fly) I wish I would have had that before I was planing the interior Fitting out of my Pegasus...

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Hi Folks -- Here is my latest effort with the hatches.

 

                   

This shows all of them dry fitted into the openings.

 

                   

And this is a close up of the foreward hatch.  You can see, Alistair, that I've taken your comments to heart, in that there is still a very slight curve to this, but so slight as to be almost imperceptible.

 

There are still some details that I'm not particularly thrilled about, for example I wonder if the corners might need just a little bit more rounding off.

 

Your comments have been most helpful, and so are more than welcome.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

(In previewing this posting, I see that my photos are anything but crisp.  I'll either have to get more light or a better camera!)

[aliluke]

Looks darn good to me Martin. I hardly rounded the corners at all. Just a little snip on the top leg of the box joint.

 

Are you putting a ladder in that fore hatch?

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, Alistair, and thanks for the likes, guys.

 

I hadn't planned on putting a ladder in this lower hatch, Alistair.  I thought I would only do ladders from the foc'sle & QD down to this deck.  After my utter confusion last week involving the aft ladders, I realized the aft hatch/ladderway actually sits atop the keel extension.  But your question is going to make me wonder now.  Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't rush into building the bulkheads just yet.  Everything is dry fitted, so I can always do them over.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Martin

Certainly that fore hatch is a ladder hatch. I've built one for it and that is how I will portray it. That is the only ladder I'll be showing from the main deck downwards. The aft most hatch is also a ladder hatch but I have put a grating in that one.

[scott larkins]

The decking is coming along really well.  I applaud your patience.

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, Scott.  This build isn't that much harder than the Rattlesnake, but it is different.

 

That's good info, Alistair -- I do have a ladder on hand that I built while waiting for my wood, so that would be a good use for it.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[scott larkins]

Martin,

 

What are all of marks on the decking for?  Not the lines, I get those, but the notes.

[Martin W]

Thanks for looking in, guys.

 

Scott -- as Spy points out, I write memos to myself on the build where I can check and recheck quickly.  Most of what you can see are just identifications of which deck opening is for what.  I also tend to write the measurements right next to the object I want the dimensions of, so I won't lose them.  If you saw the clutter that I call my work bench, you'd know why I try to avoid losing anything.

 

Spy, I have in fact written:  pointy and square.  It's when I have to write Middle or Side that I'll begin to worry about myself!

 

 

Martin

[scott larkins]

Thanks Martin, I can see your point.  Since the rattlesnake didn't have a sub deck I guess I wouldn't have done that.  I tend to put my notes on my plans and instructions.

[Martin W]

Scott -- enjoy those Rattlesnake plans while you can.  The Fly/Pegasus plans are not so detailed.  Fortunately there are historical plans, and the great benefit of some experienced and skilled builders keeping detailed logs on this site!

 

cheers,

 

Martin

[scott larkins]

That's what I like about this site.  I can't wait to see what else you come along with on this build.

[Martin W]

Thanks for the encouragement, Scott.  I hope whatever I do manage comes close to your expectations!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Bulkheads:

 

The two bulkheads under the Quarterdeck are straightforward, especially when following the advice in FFM, to use thin plywood on which to apply veneers.  That's what I did, but still found the work surprisingly slow.  Cutting the ply from the template was a snap, as was gluing the veneers.  I had some 1/64" boxwood strips that I outlined with 1/64 cherry.  So far so easy.  For the doors, I used some 11/16 X 1/32 boxwood, that I also happened to have on hand, and they seemed to work quite well as scale representations.  Then I read David Antscherl's suggestion that louvers would be nice, and I looked admiringly at BE's louvered doors.  There was my challenge.

 

I had some very thin boxwood scrap from some trimming I'd done earlier, so I thought I'd use that for the louvers.  But the question was how to get louvers into the door so that they'd stay?  Now, I have a micro mill that I haven't figured out how to use yet, so I thought this might be a golden opportunity to put it to work.  After several hours of trying out different clamping methods and coming up with a small enough cutting bit (I settled on a micro burr that I use for carving with the Dremel), I ended up with this:

 

                                         

             

                        Ouch!  Those are so ugly that any self-respecting crew would mutiny.  Lesson:  more practice, more thinking about how to use the mill, and where to get tiny end mills to cut something at this scale.

 

In the meantime, I cut some narrow strips of the boxwood veneer -- which gave me cleaner edges -- and simply glued them into the opening of the door at a somewhat appropriate angle.  I aimed at getting 4 louvers per door, but they proved so finnicky that I settled for three:

 

                                          

 

Here, then, is the aft-most bulkhead with two of the louvered doors in place -- no knobs yet:

 

                                          

 

The other two doors are not installed yet because they will be shown opening aft, and I didn't want to chance having them break off.  Through the doors you can see the first stages of furnishing the Cabin, with a walnut window seat.

 

You can also see that I've been experimenting with staining the bulkhead with walnut stain in hopes of not having to paint.  I'm far from satisfied with the result here.

 

For the second bulkhead, I decided to free myself from the burden of louvers, and just cut conventional panels on the doors, marking out the distances in pencil and then running an exacto point alongside a ruler, and then deepening the cut with a 1mm v-gouge. 

 

                                             

In these photos my work looks as though I just dashed through the gouging, but in fact each door took around 45 minutes. 

 

Meanwhile, Bounce has been to a birthday party -- it wasn't hers, but she assumed the gift would be something she could eat. 

 

                                             

                                       Oh, the outrage!

[Blue Ensign]

Bulkhead fittings looking good Martin, but Bounce does look a tad disappointed, needs cheering up with a treat I think.

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Thanks for that, BE.  I'm not completly happy with the bulkheads, particularly the doors, but can't think of how to improve them.

 

Not to worry about Bounce and treats.  If a treat exists, she has had it, and now expects it . . . demands it (she's a terrier, after all -- in the 14th century that classification was generally spelled terrour).

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Hi Martin

I did one bulkhead at bulkhead 10 (it can be seen on page 4 in my log). I made it out cardboard which I washed with a pale yellow and then delineated the panels with narrow and thin strips of walnut. This made it quite easy to do. When the QD is on you can just see the bottom of the bulkhead. You can't see the windows that I put in the doors. I think when all the other details go on you won't be able to see it at all! So from that point of view I wouldn't loose too much sleep about it as a detail. I think what you've got will be just fine.

 

I just noticed that your gun port strips aren't on. I'm thought you had put them on or am I mixing up your log with someone else?