Constitution by patrickmil - Model Shipways - 1/76th

[Sjors]

I need air !!!!!!!!

 

I was running to your new build   

Just on time!!!!

I will be follow you also and will see how this journey ends.

Good luck with it and a smooth sailing.

 

[patrickmil]

Sjors, glad to have you aboard. I've got plenty of front row seats available. You can bring some popcorn like usual... I'll bring the beer 

[alde]

Ill be hanging out in the peanut gallery trying to learn something. It will be fun seeing an early configuration Constitution come together. The research will be almost as much fun as the build.

 

Al D.

Edited March 18, 2014 by alde

[Sjors]

Here you are Patrick,

 

 

 

You can start now with updates and pictures   

 

 

[patrickmil]

Al, welcome aboard!!! You don't have to hang around in the peanut gallery. Sjors always brings plenty of popcorn for everybody. I truly am hoping to have an update later on tonight. I have to go out and purchase some 1/4" wood for my false keel and then I'm going to glue down copies of the plans I made to try and be as precise as possible.

[lambsbk]

MIchael (md1400cs) posted this link for cannon. I don't know if it will help or not but it is worth a look.

 

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/amati-cannon-barrels.html

[popeye the sailor]

as soon as I heard,  I came running right over.   good to see your not wasting any time getting into another kit.   it'll be interesting to see what you do with this bad girl!

[patrickmil]

Hey Popeye, thanks for dropping in.... the kit? or was it the popcorn that brought you over?         Glad to have you looking on.

[patrickmil]

Dave, thanks for the link. I'm checking it out right now in fact.

[alde]

Patrick, I know that contemporary information for early US Navy ships is pretty thin. Have you found much in the way of early paintings? I am probably 5 years or more out from the time that I tackle Constitution but would like to build it in a Barbery Wars configuration. Yours will probably many times more difficult to find information on. I am always looking for information on her and if I find anything unusual I will pass it on.

 

Al D.

[patrickmil]

I appreciate that Al. I'm going from what information I can find online and in a couple of books. I already had AOTS for the Constitution and have ordered a couple more that should be arriving soon. I'll post pictures of these as soon as I get them, but they are called A Most Fortunate Ship and Ironsides! These look to have some pretty good information in them. I've been looking at some of the paintings online as well.

[alde]

Patrick, you might also look for a book called "Six Frigates" by Ian W. Toll. It's an inexpensive book but a good read. You never know what tidbits you can find.

[patrickmil]

Al, I will have to look for it on Amazon and order it. Thanks for the heads up on it. 

 

Just so you all don't think that I haven't been thinking about ship building, I have a small update. I went to my local Woodcraft store today and found a 1/4" sheet of birch plywood. I have to say that it doesn't have the grain I'd desire to plank with but the quality and rigidity make it perfect for a false keel. I also managed to pick up several blocks of decent boxwood to carve various fittings from. I haven't even cut into this wood yet and already I like it better than basswood. At any rate, I drew a straight line on the plywood and cut out some plan copies of the false keel and adhered them to the ply using rubber cement. Tomorrow I will have to break out the scroll saw and cut this big sucker out. As always, thanks for looking in and I appreciate any and all comments (including the critical ones).

Edited March 19, 2014 by patrickmil

[popeye the sailor]

why are you cutting another frame center {keel}?  is the original one warped?..........or are you creating an armada?

 

dropping in........definitely the kit!   after seeing how well you did the Niagara,  I'm sure you'll do a great job on this one.   what your doing right now is pretty interesting.......although I tend to use the parts panels to trace out the parts.   for whatever reason your doing this,  it's gotta be cool!

[patrickmil]

Popeye, I like the new avatar. I wanted to precisely locate the plan lines onto the false keel. I can use the plans to provide tracing lines to directly inscribe the plan lines to the false keel. The cutout panels won't suffice for inscribing the lines and also because the false keel comes in three pieces. I didn't like how the pieces fit together when I put it together almost a year ago. I had bought another piece of ply but this ended up being warped and the reference lines weren't lining up as neatly as I would have liked. I'm happier with this effort so far as I really plan on pouring my soul into this model.

[popeye the sailor]

always wondered why they did that....cripes,  some of them come in a big enough box!   but,  man.......wouldn't that be a thought!  you could do the Constitution and the President,  all in one go!   pretty much the same rigging and all.   sorry.....I have a problem with my imagination.......always seems to get away from me     you'll do fine.....I know you will!

[texxn5]

Great idea Patrick, should be able to put that scroll saw to good use now. I think that really should be in the kit instead of in 3 pieces. Much better work platform.

[patrickmil]

Fella's I don't know why they break it up in three pieces as all three pieces are cut on the same sheet to begin with. Popeye, you have me thinking about the President or the United States now as a dual build, LOL.

[lambsbk]

Ya. You gotta watch that 'multi-build bug thing' from Denis. 

[patrickmil]

Dave, that bug certainly has me thinking though. The USS United States had some memorable moments in the War of 1812. That would be a great starting scratch build. I think the only problem there would be the research.For the most part though, she looks just like the Connie with a poop deck. I would think the stern ornamentation would be close to Connie's. I don't recall reading about what her original figurehead would have been.

[patrickmil]

Another quick update tonight. Not too much done, but I did get to break in my scroll saw. It cuts greats and the variable speed is invaluable. What did I do? I cut out the overall keel frame piece. I also started transcribing some of the lines from the plan copies to the piece itself. You'll notice a small 1/16" strip of bare wood at the top of the piece. This will be cut off so make up for the 1/16" planking material as the plans had that line marked as the top of the gundeck.

 

Tomorrow I am going to get the bulkhead slots cut and get the rest of my lines marked. Who knows... Maybe I'll get a little more done, but this is competing with other projects now that the weather has turned nice. I still have to cut and veneer two sets of cornhole boards with the block O for Ohio State. Oh, I also included a picture of some reference material that arrived today, It should be a good read.

 

And I have some questions if anyone feels like fielding some answers. Were the gunport lids in two parts in 1797 like they are today? And from what I can tell, the deck planking wasn't nibbed into the waterways... Is this correct? I have also noticed some discrepancies between sources on the shape of the wales planking... Were they most likely straight planks back then? The admiral of this shipyard also thinks I should leave some exposed framing to see the gundeck... Any thoughts on this?

[Force9]

I don't think any references to split lids appear until the Preble era...

[patrickmil]

Evan, thanks for your reply. I was thinking that I would be using full lids but wanted to make sure. It's so confusing because all of the paintings of her are showing full lids but all the modern reference material don't really mention it.

[patrickmil]

So this morning I decided to take some time pouring over images of paintings by Corne of Connie. The earliest known painting done in 1803 can be seen at this link: http://www.history.navy.mil/constitution/images/1803MFC2011Photo-L.jpg. This is helping quite a bit with some other questions I've had about the early years. It looks like she has a yellow stripe, yellow masts, yellow and white trim on the quarter galleries and a white Hercules up front. It also answers my question about gunports as there aren't any present. After looking at the Hull model I can see that his crew didn't include them on that either. I still haven't gotten further with nibbed decking though. The real deal, the model plans and the plans on the Navy's website all show unnibbed deck planking, but as she has gone through refits and repairs, I'm wondering if maybe she followed standard British practice with nibbed planking when she was built and this has vanished over time. If we go that route, then it makes me question her wales planking as well with what is shown in current plans and on the present Constitution. 

 

Please, please please.... some discussion would be awesome. I'm sure the chances are better for me to hit the lottery than to build her exactly like she was in 1797-98, but I'd like to do the best I can.

[CaptainSteve]

Patrick,
Your scholarly research into this matter is impressive and makes for fascinating reading. I really cannot answer your questions for you. However, my suggestion would be to approach one of the best resources I can think of. That would be MSW member Popeye2Sea, who serves as a tour guide on board the USS Constitution to this very day. He proved to be a wealth of information when I asked some questions regarding Connie during her 1812 period.
Hope this helps.

Edited March 20, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[texxn5]

Hi Patrick. I just saw where you live as well as the reference to Ohio State. My Admiral is from there and is a grad of Ohio State as is her son who still lives there. We were there during our travels last year. Cool.

[patrickmil]

CaptainSteve, I just sent a PM to Popeye2sea. The references are so sketchy concerning her early career. Any answers will be so helpful. John, I've lived in Ohio nearly my whole life and bleed scarlet and gray. Next time you're out this way you'll have to give me a shout out. I can direct you to some of the better watering holes here.

[popeye the sailor]

I'm also doing the Revell U.S.S. United States.   in those plans they have the hull stripe as yellow,  which is what I'm going to do.  on my first build,  I did it white.   looked good,  but I think the yellow will add to the build nicely.   the Revell kit doesn't have the split gun port lids....this would be detail....too big for Revell to ignore.  they have them as full lids.   I haven't been in the box recently......but I don't recall a figurehead.   I wanted to get the Connie kit as well,  but the admiral kinda went hay-wire on me.....so I guess that's a bust 

 

the Revell United States kit is a spin-off of the Connie kit........I wanted to see if the United States was larger.  she was a bit bigger than the Connie.....mostly in the stern area....the addition of the poop deck and additional living spaces.

 

oh....oh!  I hope I didn't plant a seed.......but really,  you made that keel......you have the original one......it would be nothing to make up some extra ribs and hull parts.   the President and the Connie mirrored each other close enough.....it can be done.  whatever you choose to do,  I'm sure you'll have a fun time with it.   your amassing some really good info there......your well on your way!

[texxn5]

Hi Patrick, sounds like a plan. We love Bahama Moma's from Schmidt's, we still have some in the freezer, as well as burgers from Thurman's. She lived in Dublin, and her son and daughter both live there. Have fun with the dual build. Leave it to Popeye to edge it on...lol. Henry, (popeye2sea) is a wealth of information and a great guy to boot. He's a retired Navy Chief Signalman and actually served out the rest of this time on the Conny. He's a member of the 1812 Marines. You're in for a real history lesson building these ships.

[patrickmil]

Popeye and John, a dual build was not actually the plan, however, this is an interesting possibility  as I am already remaking many of the kit parts for Connie.  I do have two center keel pieces and cutting and finishing new bulkheads would not be too terribly hard with some new toys. If I officially decide to do so, I would start the other build in the scratch build forum. I don't think the hull sizes are that far off. From what I can tell without any heavy research, the ships have the same length and beam but the United States has a poop deck.

 

On with my progress so far today. I managed to cut out the slots for the bulkheads. The slots need some fine tuning still. I also got the 1/16" sanded from the top of the center keel piece to make up for the planking to go on. Two new toys I have are a belt sander and a spindle sander. I live by the saying "Ask forgiveness rather than permission" so I purchase these today to facilitate efficient sawdust production.         

 

Next up will be the widening of the bulkhead slots and and construction of my building slip. If I get the time, I may post some more progress later.