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HMS Pegasus by louis nicholas - Amati - Scale 1:64 (First wooden ship kit build)


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Welcome - you have picked a great kit  but if its your first build you have also picked a challenging one.

 

You will see a number of build logs on here for Pegasus  ( and HMS Fly which is nearly identical)  .

 

Dont get discouragedby the workmanship of some of the builders which is exceptional - mere mortals like us can aspire but it still builds a lovely model without quite the perfection of the masters.

 

I think that the concept of a "summer build" is intriguing unless you have great relevant experience . Mind the last time I queried the expectation of a short build time - the builder built more in six weeks than I had built in two years so you may be one of the lucky quick workers!

 

But enjoy yourself!

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Welcome Louis to the Swan Class build. It is a great kit and I hope you enjoy the process of building it. You've probably already had a look at the many logs for it. I, like Blue Ensign and others, are modifying it to more closely follow the Seawatch book series on the Swan Class - The Fully Framed Model. Volume II and Volume IV being the strongest references. Dan's build of the Vulture in the scratch built forum follows this as well but in much greater detail. However straight out of the box it will still make a fantastic model and adherence to the FFM is a personal choice rather than a necessity.

 

I look forward to seeing your start and progress. With all the Swan builders here you are sure to get lots of advice and answers to any questions.

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Greetings from another Swan class builder. For a first timer, you've surely picked a though one. Not impossible, though. Lot's of reference material here and as the others have said, the TFFM series of books are invaluable (just to help wrap your head around some of the concepts). Don't be afraid to ask questions, we've all hacked our way down this path before. Wood is forgiving, and extra parts can be ordered. You can honestly expect to take at least a year or longer on this build (I'm on my third, but mostly because I didn't manage any work last winter at all, so don't feel bad).

 

Welcome to the Swan club!

 

Andy

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Hi! Thank you all, for your supportive feedbacks. ;) I have read nearly each, and everyone of your pegasus's blogs. Specially  Blue Ensign. I must say that I expect the build to be very challenging, (backed up after seeing builders talking about the slightly inappropriate fittings) and I had heard about the bible, TFFM. I just wonder, is there anything that I should beware about the rib construction with Victory models? Thank you very much, :D

Nicholas

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Hi Nicholas

All the bulkheads fitted well on my kit - no issues to alert you to excepting for the normal need to get them square, true and properly seated on the centre piece. As you'll see in other logs the gun port plywood strips are where the kit gets a little bit more challenging...

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It got slightly frustrated when I slide two of the ribs in the wrong slot, but now its fixed, jolly good! Now, when I looked on the plans, they told me to plank the deck but leave the middle part un-planked, which kind of doesn't make sense to me, as the middle is the bit that is showed under sunlight. Why should I leave the middle not planked? Any brilliant ideas?

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Edited by louis nicholas
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Its an idea the designer had to make planking easier by doing it in sections with totally non historical cross planks.

 

I think he (Chris Watton) now agrees with everyone else that its better and no harder to plank straight along the whole deck.

 

Just a point I notice from your pics - they seem to show the stern supports going out at 90 degrees from the aft bulk head - I personally  run them at an angle following the planking run of the vessel. 

Taking care though not to make the stern too narrow for the  Stern window parts.

If you make a trial fit of the stern window ply part it gives you the right shape - there is a pic on my log relating to gunport strips which gives you an idea

Edited by SpyGlass
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Now thats a REAL QUESTION !!!!  I think the answer is start by being about 2cms tall!

 

I think that at this scale that is a totally impossibility.  You can juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust about make the tackle work at this scale but most of us spend all our time making sure the guns stay where we put them !   And the complexities of making the tackle lines lie correctly even with fixed guns take up tens of topics on the site

 

You could do one side in one position and the other in the alternative maybe ?

 

There was a kit that I built  - cant remember off hand which one ( Snake ??) - which had carronades mounted on sliding carriages which may have done the trick .

 

By the way, I think your pics show you  have already fixed your keel fittings and bulk heads but if by any chance you havent it is easier to do initial shaping of the bulk head edges off model before fixing and again it is easier if the stern post isnt fixed before the first planking at least is on.

Edited by SpyGlass
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Hi nice start shaping the frames before fitting would have made life a bit easier later, I would recommend filling the first few frames and the last two with balsa to help with the bow and stern profile, fully rigging the cannons in place will be hard enough on a first build and I had to go down to 2mm blocks for the tackles so they do not just jam up, working gun tackle at this scale would be a first, plus if the guns are not fixed down gravity would play havoc when the build needed to be on its side for instance.

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First Nicholas - I am honoured that you seek my advice - but there are many other better builders than I on the site and I do urge you to look through the logs of the Pegasus and Fly builders and see the advice and discussions there.

 

if you do and advanced search (little gear wheel top right corner of the page)  for Pegasus in  Title you will see about 18 logs - all have good information. Time spent reading them can save enormous amount of building time .

 

But if you want my input as to the next step.

 

First you MUST do some basic shaping of the bulkheads to get the hull planking to lie flat.  You can do too much damage to other work if you dont get this basic step done now. 

 

When you say planking - I presume you mean the deck planking.  Most builders darken the edges in some fashion  to indicate the caulking to seal the decks - easily over done though.  I suggest you use a little of your plank stock and run some trials on scrap wood. This is very much a matter of personal taste on how prominent you make the marking

I just run a soft pencil along the edge

Most builders also plank the small area on the lower deck which you have already fitted which can be seen through the main deck hatch the hatch.

Thats a good trial area

Edited by SpyGlass
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Hi Louis

I'm with Spyglass here. On my log you can see an area of lower deck planking beneath the fore/ladder hatch. This is just visible when the ladder is in place.

 

I use an HB pencil to simulate caulking. Some do it on only one side of adjoining planks - this makes repairing any gaps easier. I do it on both and hope I don't have gaps! 

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From the pics I would suggest that you need to take LOTS more off the bulkheads before planking.

 

If you look at some of the other Fly/ Pegasus log there are pics where you can see how much you need to take off - and it always much more than you think . These are a couple from my log.

 

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A good rough guide is the shape of the main deck - the upper part of the fore and at bulkhead need to follow that curve

Real working has some pics as well

Edited by SpyGlass
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Thank you all for your advises. It took me 3 hours to sand the bulkheads this morning after seeing your pics, and finally, I planked the gun port decks. I used mainly tape to help the the curve stay, though it was intense, specially the head of the ship, where the wood never obeys the curve, but I am very happy with how pretty little pegasus is shaping herself :P I am currently meeting a huge problem with cannon rigging, can anyone show me details of this?( I need a bit of explanation to the rigging in logs...)thank you very much

Edited by louis nicholas
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After further shaping the bulkheads, started planking the ship, difficult indeed, and made a mess in planking the head, the gunport at the other side is not fixed yet . Although it took 5 hours, it was very enjoyable to see the ship slowly shaping. (when I looked at my ship from a distance, it looked like a hedgehog.)

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Edited by louis nicholas
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Louis - Seems like you've been really busy, the planking can be a challenge!  Its hard to tell from the photos with all the pins, but I'd really recommend trying to get a nice fit of the planks to the stem, I think you'll really appreciate that when you get to the second planking.  If you haven't already, I also suggest you consider putting in 'stealers' in between you planking where you have the gaps, especially the stern and the stem, you'd need to cut these to shape but would probably look like long thin triangles.  That will give you an opportunity to get the hull to the smooth shape you want.  I'm sure the others with experience of this particular kit can probably offer some more specific advice.  Its fun isn't it ?  :)

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Hi Louis. Speedy progress by you.

 

Some comments:

I agree with Jason, getting the turn up of the planks to the lower counter at the stern correct is very important even on the first layer. I think your planking looks a little loose there at the moment.

 

At the bow the planks should all be tapered so that they all meet the stem. That is the lower planks shouldn't turn up to butt into a planking band above them as you have done. This doesn't matter on the first layer but is worth pursuing on the second layer. To do it, only the first plank below the plywood pattern is not tapered. Every other plank is and the taper needs to start quite a long way back on the hull.

 

I think there are some good photos of the bow planking in Blue Ensigns log and there is a photo of my stern planking in my log.

 

Keep enjoying yourself!!

Edited by aliluke
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Hello Louis if I may offer a comment, you seem to be moving very quickly on your build, and you may find it beneficial to step back and familiarise yourself with the basics of hull planking. It is better to treat the first planking as a dress rehearsal for the second layer and time spent getting it right pays dividends in terms of much greater satisfaction.

 

I don't know if you've seen it but here's a link to the main MSW site and pdf downloads including simple hull planking.

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

 

I know I found it of great benefit when I returned to  wooden kits after many years away from the hobby.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

 

 

 

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Hi Louis

I've had a closer look at your photos. To be blunt- you are in trouble. You really need to take a step back. The model is founded on the plywood patterns, bulkheads and first planking. You need fillers between the bulkheads - see my log - and much more fairing of the bulkheads. The plywood pattern must follow the flow of the hull. If it is flat and the planks below it angle down it is wrong. This, by your photos, is what you have made. Sanding and filling will not fix this. You will really struggle from here on if these issues aren't fixed and the kit and your investment in it deserves better. There is joy to be had in making these things but I see pain ahead for you.

 

I do not like saying this and you don't want to hear it, but to continue, with success, you have to undo the plywood gun port pattern and all of the planking to date. This is my opinion. This forum would be pointless if I couldn't express this and I hate to see model makers fall at the first hurdle and then disappear.

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Hi Louis

 

Alistair is telling it like it is - time spent on getting these basics right is not wasted.  Great learning experience.!!!!

And dont think that making mistakes is a failure - Everyone of the best modellers here is constantly repairing and fixing or improving things. 

 

Look at Danny Vulture log - at times it seems he has rebuilt every bit of work he has done on his master work.

 

Undoing what you have already done is not as hard as it seems either - if you can tell us what glues you have used the more experienced here can tell you how best to undo things.

 

You have picked a great kit but it takes time to build. 

 

So I do suggest following Alilukes advice and again urge you to read through all the logs on here to see how others have done it.

 

But everyone is captain of their own ship, you build for your own pleasure so no one will take exception if you choose to continue just as you pleae !

 

Good building

 

Steve

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