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Bleaching your wood


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Ahoy, Mates :D

 

 

I have noticed some dark patches on my basswood planking. I sanded them thinking they might be pencil dust but they are not. I am wondering if they could actually be mold. I noticed that they get much darker when I wet the area telling me that should I decide to go with a natural finish these might not be very attractive.

 

 

Has anybody seen this and if so could I use a solution of bleach and water to remove them. I really don't like the thought of ripping this plank out but am not sure how Basswood will react to bleach. I have used it on other woods with no negative effects.

 

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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I will follow your chemistry experiments!

Augie

 

Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64

 

Previous Builds :

 

US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988

Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976

Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956

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Ahoy, Augie  :D

 

I might be looking for someone to help with some experimentation

I believe you have a ship that is made of Basswood

Interested  :P  “LOL”


 

I really miss those Emoticons  

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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JP.

Are these the spots you point out on your build? or are they different? In the picture I am referring to, Pg 2, planking 11.jpg, they almost look like glue spots in the picture. That is always tricky to remove completely.

Do you recall if anything was pressed/clamped down in those spots?

Can you recreate it on some scrap wood? That I think might be your first step.

If it is something else entirely can you post a picture? If they are grey or bluish black spots, sometimes that is either iron/mineral deposits in the water you used to wipe your glue off reacting with the tannic acid the wood or even a metal clamp or pin coming into contact with the wood. This is fairly common on woods like oak and cherry. I am not sure though if bass wood has much tannic acid. IF that is the what happend, you can try Oxalic Acid in a water solution. 

Sam

Current Build Constructo Enterprise

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Ahoy, Sam :D

 

Thanks for stopping by and your post

 

Please do not use that "G" word. :o

I am so glue paranoid when I put on a plank it is thoroughly washed and then wiped with alcohol after the installation. "LOL" 

 

:pirate41: GLUE

 

The patches in Pg 2, planking 11.jpg on my log sand right off. I actually double checked after reading your post "LOL"

I am curious as to where they come from however. They show up everywhere but because they come off I am not very concerned about them. Might be oil from my hands.

 

In the pic you can see some dark spots. These do not sand off and seem to be inside the wood. This plank was soaked three time and then bathed after being installed so its been swimming alot.

 

Looks like mold to me.

 

 

 

post-108-0-23802400-1361848225.jpg

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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Ahoy Mates :D

 

 

I decided that I would rip the plank out if the bleach did not work

 

It did. I used a Q-tip to apply it, let it sit until dry and then nuked the whole area with water

 

Now I will not know it there will be any adverse effects on the finish until my hull is complete, but for now it looks good

 

I am wondering if I should wash the whole hull with some bleach before I seal it up

 

I used a 25% solution of Clorox concentrated bleach "lavender scented" LOL and water

 

 

post-108-0-25469900-1361855577.jpg

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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We, of the Clorox Brotherhood, salute you!  But did you really need the lavender scented version?

 

Personally, if the problem is resolved, I wouldn't go overboard on ALL the planks.

Augie

 

Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64

 

Previous Builds :

 

US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988

Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976

Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956

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Ah, better modeling through chemistry.  

 

I would bet you stumbled on a nice way to "age" some woods as well.  Stained wood, little bleach would give it that washed out/driftwood look.  Hmmmmmm...

 

I digress.

 

 

Nice job!!

 

-Adam

-Adam

 

Current Builds

Santa Maria - Artesania Latina (1:65) POB

MayFlower - Model Shipways (5/32"=1') POB
Blue Shadow - Mamoli Revolutionary War Brigantine. (Fict) (1:64) POB (Recommissioned as the Kara June)

 

On The Shelf Waiting so Patiently

USRC Ranger - Corel (1:50) POB

18th Century Longboat - Model Shipways (1:4) POF

La Nina - Artesania Latina (1:65) POB

U.S Brig Syren - Model Shipways (1:64) POB

 

Completed Builds

Phantom NY Pilot Boat - Model Shipways (1:96) Solid Hull

 

Decommissioned Builds
(Time and conditions were not good to these. They have been cancelled =( )

Willie L Bennett - Model Shipways (1:32) POF
USRC Harriet Lane - Model Shipways (1:128) Solid Hull

 

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Ahoy Mates :D

 

Augie: I am up on the air on this, or should I say floundering. Look at the pic. That area is all nice, clean and bright. It almost sparkles, not to mention the lovely lavender smell. LOL. A quick wipe with the bleach solution might be not be a bad idea before treating basswood considering how difficult it can be to stain.

 

Adam: Thanks for posting. Very interesting. Don't digress, test and post

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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Interesting topic. It looks good now. Hope it works with your stains.

It would be nice if someone could post something in the way of  "Methods on how to treat different types of stains on various types of wood." or something like that and have it in the database. Just a thought. 

Ron

 

 

Current Build: H.M.S. Triton Cross Section 1:48

 

Why is it that I always find out the best way to do something is after I have already done it the wrong way? - Me

 

 

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When I stain a soft wood - or any wood that I expect to be rather blotchy  - I use a pre-stain wood conditioner and then stain.  When I get to the point in my log reconstruction where I show the masts, you'll be able to see my results.  I'm not sure if this is quite on-topic, but it seems like it might be headed that way.

 

Bob

Current build -- MS Bluenose

Future build - MS Flying Fish

 

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for." - William G. T. Shedd

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I agree with Bob on using the prestain.  It certainly helps eliminate the 'blotchiness' you sometimes get during staining.  But I'm pretty sure JP had something else going on there.

Augie

 

Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64

 

Previous Builds :

 

US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988

Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976

Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956

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Hi J. Pett,

 

The fact that Clorox cleared it up indicates that the problem was most likely caused by mould. Oxalic Acid may have given similar results but I would always look for an alternative.

 

I quote from the Merck Index 9th. edition: "Caustic and corrosive to skin, mucous membranes. Ingestion may cause severe gastroenteritis with vomitiong, diarrhea, melena. Renal damage can occur as a result of formation of excessive Calcium Oxalate. Severe poisoning can end fatally.

 

Richard

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JP,

Sorry, didnt mean to give you a heart attack with the "G" word. I promise I will never use it in that context again. Well I may just whisper it just to watch you twitch from time to time......... ;)

 

It is usually a good idea to neutralize any chemical you apply to a project. In this case a mild vinegar solution would work. Even though you washed it with water there can still be traces of bleach in the wood. 

 

As far as doing the whole ship, you could make a small sample board and do part with bleach and part with out, then stain and see what happens. 

 

I would agree with Richard, bleach worked so no need to try anything stronger. As far as the Oxalic Acid, you absolutely need to take the proper precautions; eye and skin protection for sure, a dust mask when mixing is not a bad idea either since it comes in a crystal form. In the world of chemicals its not as bad as nitric acid or lye, both of which have applications in staining woods btw, but you should always take precautions.

 

Sam

Edited by src

Current Build Constructo Enterprise

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One other thing to watch out for. If you use ammonia on a wood with a high tannic acid content like oak, cherry, mahogany or even walnut, the ammonia will stain the wood. It can be a nice stain, especially on oak, but if your not aware of it, and just dab it in places you could be in for a nasty surprise. It was one of the reasons I brought up the oxalic acid in the first place.

 

A lot of furniture makers, especially those who specialize in Mission or Arts and Crafts style furniture use a process called ammonia fuming to stain the wood. In my experience it is most effective in oak, cherry, and mahogany. I dont imagine to many of us will build a scale model out of oak, but I see a lot of mahogany and some cherry here. Always test on a sample first. JP, I should have warned you about the ammonia first. Sorry.  I have been working 12 plus hour days seven days a week for four weeks and my head is not screwed on right at the moment. Fortunately no harm, this time.

 

Ron, I have some wood finish books here that delve into the bleaching and stian removal on woods. I will try to look them up and post them here. If the Admins feel the information is worth it I would be more than happy to have it posted in the data base

 

Sam

Current Build Constructo Enterprise

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One other thing to watch out for. If you use ammonia on a wood with a high tannic acid content like oak, cherry, mahogany or even walnut, the ammonia will stain the wood. It can be a nice stain, especially on oak, but if your not aware of it, and just dab it in places you could be in for a nasty surprise. It was one of the reasons I brought up the oxalic acid in the first place.

 

A lot of furniture makers, especially those who specialize in Mission or Arts and Crafts style furniture use a process called ammonia fuming to stain the wood. In my experience it is most effective in oak, cherry, and mahogany. I dont imagine to many of us will build a scale model out of oak, but I see a lot of mahogany and some cherry here. Always test on a sample first. JP, I should have warned you about the ammonia first. Sorry.  I have been working 12 plus hour days seven days a week for four weeks and my head is not screwed on right at the moment. Fortunately no harm, this time.

 

Ron, I have some wood finish books here that delve into the bleaching and stian removal on woods. I will try to look them up and post them here. If the Admins feel the information is worth it I would be more than happy to have it posted in the data base

 

Sam

Sam

 

I think that would me a great idea to have that information in the database. But, it's up to the admins. I look forward to seeing your post, but only when you can find time to do it. Information like that is so valuable to have as a reference.  :)

Ron

 

 

Current Build: H.M.S. Triton Cross Section 1:48

 

Why is it that I always find out the best way to do something is after I have already done it the wrong way? - Me

 

 

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By all means Sam. do a writeup.  Worst case is that we just pin it in the Wood Discussion area. 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
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CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Ahoy Mates

 

I ran a test bleaching some wood and then treating it to see if there were any adverse effects. I actually just dipped the wood in my jar of 25% beach solution, let it dry, not even wiping away any excess and then clear coated it with Zinseer Sand Seal

 

If I hold it to the light a slight difference can be seen by turning the wood in the light. I think it might be more water stain then any effect of the bleach. I will do another test using a colored stain before trying on my hull.

 

Please do not try this at home

post-108-0-91559200-1362031544_thumb.jpg

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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'Please do not try this at home'.........you crack me up.  Where is the 'Professional bleacher, closed workshop' caution???

 

You have some eye for color difference.  Give it a few days to cure/dry before you come up with 'Final Answer'.

Augie

 

Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64

 

Previous Builds :

 

US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988

Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976

Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956

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Ahoy Augie

 

Professional ME??? I did that already, its over rated

 

I thought that statement covered it well "LOL"

 On with the Show.... B) 

 

  J.Pett

 

“If you're going through hell, keep going” (Winston Churchill)

 

Current build:  MS Rattlesnake (MS2028)

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-model-shipways-rattlesnake-ms2028-scale-164th/

 

Side Build: HMS Victory: Corel

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3709-hms-victory-by-jpett-corel-198/?p=104762

 

On the back burner:  1949 Chris Craft Racer: Dumas

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/939-1949-chris-craft-racer-by-jpett-dumas-kit-no-1702/

 

Sometime, but not sure when: Frigate Berlin: Corel

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/berlin.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

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