popeye2sea Posted November 3, 2014 Share #31 Posted November 3, 2014 Constitution is scheduled to enter the drydock in March 2015. The Navy is waiting to conclude the war of 1812 bicentennial celebrations with a commemoration of the victory over the HMS Cyane and HMS Levant of Feb. 20, 1815. The ship will be open for visitors until she actually is moved into the drydock and then the Navy is hoping to have parts of the ship open during the drydock period depending on safety concerns. Between now and March the ship will begin un-rigging and sending down her spars and masts. All the carronades have been removed from the spar deck already. I am hoping to get and post a set of pics of the various stages of the refit. Bill Hime, bhermann, Starboard III and 1 other 4 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robnbill Posted November 3, 2014 Share #32 Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks Henry. It would be fascinating to see photos as the progresses through this revolution. Quote Bill Chantilly, VA Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon! Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelpsutton2 Posted November 3, 2014 Share #33 Posted November 3, 2014 Are there going to be any changes in the ship during this rebuild? Quote Drown you may, but go you must and your reward shall be a man's pay or a hero's grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hime Posted November 3, 2014 Share #34 Posted November 3, 2014 Being a naval vessel, I'm guessing the carpenters and shipwrights working on her are contracted civilians and not necessarily Navy personnel. Would that be accurate? Sincere Regards, Bill Quote Passion is Patience...and I am a carpenter in any scale. Current build; Endurance - 1:70 scale, Occre Current build; H.M.S. Surprise - 1796, 1:48 A L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jud Posted November 3, 2014 Share #35 Posted November 3, 2014 Are there going to be any changes in the ship during this rebuild? Heard that the goal was to get her back, or close to, her 1812 appearance. jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted November 3, 2014 Share #36 Posted November 3, 2014 I believe I read somewhere in this forum that she was going to be brought a little closer to her 1812 configuration. Can't say with any certainty for sure though. Sure would be interesting to see where they would get the plans from, since we can't seem to find much info on the subject. Fair Winds Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force9 Posted November 3, 2014 Share #37 Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure that is strictly true... The stated purpose of this refit is to do a complete/extensive replacement of the under body planking and copper plating. Beyond that I don't think there is any "official" word... Certainly we'd all hope that some provision could be made to bring either the bow or stern into better alignment with her glory years. There may be nothing definitive, but following guidance from the Hull model would be a reasonable approach - at least much better than the current configuration that is widely acknowledged to be very wrong for her 1812 appearance! They may change the gun port lids to the half "buckler" type that seems to have been researched and corroborated by Ms. Desy (the official historian of the ship). We can only hope... Regarding research and good sources... I have discussed some sources for my build in my log... I'll copy my entry here: It is amazing how little is certain even with a famous ship like Constitution... Now that I've reached the spar deck, I realize that I will need to cherry pick across the various sources to choose different elements from conflicting information - and from here forward they will be very visible. With that in mind, I think it'd be appropriate to pause a moment and re-evaluate the sources at my disposal. My build still relies primarily on the Michele Felice Cornè series of paintings of the Guerriere battle and the "Hull" model - both in the Peabody Essex museum collection. Where possible I will follow these sources with a few bits of artistic license tossed in the mix (I've already deviated somewhat with the stern gallery windows). The works of Commander Tyrone Martin are a popular resource. I have most in my collection: I've already utilized his "Creating a Legend" to add interlocking deck planks on my gun deck. His "A Most Fortunate Ship" is the premier reference for the biography of the ship. Be warned, however, that his take on the Guerriere fight is controversial. Most "modern" historians have generally dismissed his version - including Margherita Desy, the official historian of the ship attached to the NHHC DET Boston. Here are some great books for model builders: The AOTS USS Constitution by Karl Heinz Marquardt is a common reference. His reconstruction of the ship, however, is questionable... It seems to be a concoction based on some historical influences mixed with the 20th century restoration. Not particularly useful for my attempt to recreate her August 19, 1812 appearance. Chappelle's History of the American Sailing Navy is a standard reference and includes the very useful drawings of the US Frigate President copied from British records made after her capture. I've used this for the layout of the various pumps on the gun deck. I've already referenced the Bluejacket kit manual. That is a terrific resource to have if you can only add one of these to your stash. Great overview of both the hull and rig - and it includes full 1/96 scale rigging plans. The book in the foreground is new and deserves more comment. My forum friend Marcus from Germany finally put me over the edge with his glowing recommendation. It is a very expensive purchase, but well worth it to me. Olof Eriksen built a very large stainless steel model of our ship and he went to extraordinary measures to thoroughly research every aspect - especially the rigging. He initially compared notes with Larry Arnot who then connected him to Commander Martin. Thru Martin's good offices he gained access to the Hull model and conducted a complete survey which even included micro-cameras inserted into the lower deck. Cmdr Martin also provided him with a copy of Midshipman Anderson's journal made when the ship was being restored to her 1812-1815 configuration in the 1830's. Additionally, Mr. Eriksen was able to make copies of the very rare The Naval Apprentice's Kedge Anchor. Young Sailor's assistant. (1st edition 1841) by William Brady. This reference allowed him to not only compare American practices against British, but also allowed him to compare between Brady, Midshipman Anderson's journal, and the Hull model to find consistencies. Practices that Mr. Eriksen matched across all three were likely to be very accurate and were incorporated in his model. Bill did a good job of summarizing the various decisions and friction points in understanding how the great ship was configured during the war. Ultimately however, there comes a point where some of the available information will be contradictory and the modeler will need to make choices based on personal bias and comfort level. Good to see other modelers taking on the 1812 version of Connie! Evan Edited November 4, 2014 by Force9 Starboard III, Bill Hime and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Current Builds: The White Star Liner TITANIC - Trumpeter 1/200 Old Ironsides - Revisiting the classic Revell 1/96 USS Constitution kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted November 4, 2014 Share #38 Posted November 4, 2014 Thanks Force9. Since it will be at least 6 months before I start mine, I will be looking for all the reference material I can get. I'm still undecided which configuration I'd like to go with, but if I was to go with the 1812, it would be nice to have some definitive answers as to how she actually looked. I see 3 books that needs to be on my list, but will add Bluejacket's Manual to it. Thanks again for the info. Cheers Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force9 Posted November 4, 2014 Share #39 Posted November 4, 2014 Here also is my entry regarding the available CD from the Naval History command. Note the links... I thought I should share another source of research material now available... The fine newly updated version of the USS Constitution CD produced by the Naval History & Heritage Command (NHHC). The CD includes many plans compiled by the Boston Detachment of the NHHC. It mostly includes copies of Lt John Lord's drawings used for the 1927 restoration. As such, they are not necessarily pertinent to the 1812 period, but do have some useful drawings of details like whale boats, Anchors, etc. In particular, there are some historical references also included that I have found very interesting. Finally, the drawings often include notes and links to sub-references that clarify the differences between the 1927 and 1812-14 versions. It should also be pointed out that the updated website for the NHHC/USS Constitution includes a very nice virtual tour of the ship: http://www.history.navy.mil/USSCTour/Movie.html The tour includes links as appropriate to many of the documents/plans included in the new CD. Click on the FILE REFERENCE tab: http://www.history.navy.mil/USSCTour/frDrawings.html This link contains good stuff! I highly recommend anyone interested in the great ship to peruse the link and explore the material available... Enjoy! Bill Hime 1 Quote Current Builds: The White Star Liner TITANIC - Trumpeter 1/200 Old Ironsides - Revisiting the classic Revell 1/96 USS Constitution kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hime Posted November 4, 2014 Share #40 Posted November 4, 2014 Force9, Wonderful postings, thank you! I am in the early stages of information gathering. You just saved me about 20 questions hoping for answers. Sincere Regards, Bill Starboard III 1 Quote Passion is Patience...and I am a carpenter in any scale. Current build; Endurance - 1:70 scale, Occre Current build; H.M.S. Surprise - 1796, 1:48 A L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch944t Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #41 Posted November 4, 2014 Great posts guys. Just to let everyone know, I started my build log today. Within my build log, I'm going to try to use a single post to document differences between the Model Shipways kit (essentially the Constitution as she sits today) and the Constitution as she appeared in the 1812 Era. By "as she appeared in the 1812 Era" my intent is to build her as she appeared under the command of Isaac Hull. As I learn of new differences, I will go back and edit that "differences" post so that they will all be captured on one location. I will also edit that post to correct any information that I later learn is incorrect or at least add more information. Fletch Bill Hime, Starboard III and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Clark Fletcher Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hime Posted November 4, 2014 Share #42 Posted November 4, 2014 Fletch, You should put a link to your build log on your signature Sincere Regards, Bill GLakie 1 Quote Passion is Patience...and I am a carpenter in any scale. Current build; Endurance - 1:70 scale, Occre Current build; H.M.S. Surprise - 1796, 1:48 A L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch944t Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share #43 Posted November 4, 2014 Thanks Bill, I will put a link in my build log. However, as of yesterday, I didn't meet the minimum number of posts that allows you to modify your signature. Quite honestly, I didn't know there was a minimum number until I attempted to change my signature yesterday. Should meet it today though. I think I was only one post away. Fletch GLakie, mtaylor, trippwj and 1 other 4 Quote Clark Fletcher Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted November 4, 2014 Share #44 Posted November 4, 2014 Fletch, It's not a publicized limit that was imposed to stop spammers. They would sign up, pop a link into a signature and make a "hi.. great site" post and leave. Anyway, if you'll have a look here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/47-questionsinstructions-on-how-to-use-and-post-to-this-forumsite-problems-or-suggestions/ you'll find some helpful posts on "how-to" around MSW. There's one here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/760-how-to-add-a-build-log-link-to-your-signature/ for adding links to the signature. Bill Hime and GLakie 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch944t Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share #45 Posted November 5, 2014 Hi Mark, I finally got the signature created yesterday. However, I was having problems even after that getting the link created so I emailed Dave Vadas. He quickly identified my problem as IE11. After I got on a computer with IE10 still installed, had no trouble creating the link this morning. Thanks,Fletch mtaylor 1 Quote Clark Fletcher Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted November 5, 2014 Share #46 Posted November 5, 2014 Ah, another Microsoft "feature". I'd try FireFox; used it for several years now. CaptainSteve 1 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted November 5, 2014 Share #47 Posted November 5, 2014 Hi Clark: I had a similar problem, only with attaching links to any posts. IE11 was the culprit, but just converted to Google Chrome and all is well. That was a better solution for me rather than fall back to an older version of IE. Now I have both installed,--with no problems I might add. Fair Winds Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robnbill Posted November 5, 2014 Share #48 Posted November 5, 2014 Wow, what we miss as a Mac household! Landlubber Mike 1 Quote Bill Chantilly, VA Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon! Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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