scott larkins Posted January 9, 2015 Share #661 Posted January 9, 2015 Hey JS, The build is looking great. Still making my build look like a kids toy. My biggest advise on the shrouds, do not singe them together until after you have them tied to the dead eyes. My plans show them being tied / singed together right up there under the platform. I first tied one shroud, went up, singed it and back down and the lines tended to lay up on top of each other. If you are going to tie them up there, again, wait until they are tied to the dead eyes. This will help keep the shrouds side by side. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #662 Posted January 20, 2015 At this point I decided it was best if I installed the Mizzen Mast Top’s railing. The parts had been made earlier as documented in this build log. KenW and Martin W 2 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #663 Posted January 20, 2015 Also made long ago was the Quarter Deck Mizzen Mast Wedge which was installed into final position with the Mizzen Mast. The mizzen shrouds were now ready to be installed. CaptainSteve, Salty Sea Dog, Martin W and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #664 Posted January 20, 2015 The first shroud in the group to be installed was the most forward one, the one made with the cut splice. To ensure that the deadeye at each end were on the same and proper height, two identical wires were cut and formed into a shallow U-shape, one for each end of the shroud. First one side had the deadeye attached and the U-shape wire attached. Then pulling the line taught the height of the other side was measured and the deadeye attached. The other U-shape held it in place. If the line remained taught with the wires, I was ready to lash the deadeyes. Martin W 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #665 Posted January 20, 2015 Following Mr. Lennarth Petersson’s Rigging Period Ship Models the deadeyes were lashed in the manner described. The image below is the Port side while the one above is the Starboard. Martin W, Salty Sea Dog and KenW 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share #666 Posted January 20, 2015 The was a little twisting from the lashing but hopefully, that will get straightened out when the ratlines get installed later on. CaptainSteve, KenW, Rao A.L.G. and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott larkins Posted January 22, 2015 Share #667 Posted January 22, 2015 All looking good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sport29652 Posted January 23, 2015 Share #668 Posted January 23, 2015 Keep it up looks good ! Quote Eric Current build(s) ; AL San Francisco II http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/862-san-francisco-2-by-eric-al-190-sport29652/ MS Rattlesnake http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/868-rattlesnake-by-eric-model-shipways-164-sport29652/page-2 Sitting on the shelf : MS Constitution, MS Sultana, Wish List : MS Essex, Confederacy, and Syren, and a Victory kit by someone ? "80% of the time it works every time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rao A.L.G. Posted January 23, 2015 Share #669 Posted January 23, 2015 A great build log. Just dropped in..what an effort and enthusiasm, it is really paying up. The model looks great. Would be following to learn your skills. Rao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share #670 Posted January 23, 2015 Thanks for the praise. It must be like watching paint dry at the pace that I'm going so I really appreciate it. Rigging is totally new to me. I have to understand the whys and hows before I do anything. I can sit and research or contemplate my naval for hours before I do anything; and that just might be tying a knot. 8-) Jon CaptainSteve 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted January 25, 2015 Share #671 Posted January 25, 2015 Hi Jon -- This is a good start, and you're wise to use that wire jig to set the distance between deadeyes. I also struggled with that twisting, and generally resolved it by running my thumbnail over the shroud to get any twist out of it, and then making sur the lashing was as taut as I could get it. Probably some of the more experienced folks on MSW have more reliable techniques, but that mostly worked for me. And now you can start looking forward to the real excitement of tying the ratlines! Woohoo!! Cheers, Martin Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott larkins Posted January 26, 2015 Share #672 Posted January 26, 2015 Was there excitement in tying the rat lines. Funny, no one told me about that. LOL The one thing I did to help take out the twits was to wax and hang the lines with a weight for several days. The lines first spun as they hung but they eventually stopped. At least I found that helped for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickmil Posted January 30, 2015 Share #673 Posted January 30, 2015 Jon, Your Rattlesnake is awesome! On my Niagara I solved the twisting issue when I installed the horizontal bars/planks that go right over top of the deadeyes and lanyards. Great work on your rigging so far. Quote Thanks, Patrick YouTube Channel for fun: Patrick's Scale Studio Finished: Model Shipways US Brig Niagara Current: I Love Kit USS Curtis Wilbur DDG-54 "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday" - John Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #674 Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks for the complements, flattery will get you everything. Yeah, I figure those horizontal bars plus the ratlines will straighten everything out once they are installed later on. It just seems that no matter what I want to do, I have to do something else first (one of Murphy's Laws). CaptainSteve 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted January 30, 2015 Share #675 Posted January 30, 2015 Just enjoyed a read thro' your log Jon, what a fine job you have made of your build, and what a valuable work of reference for those building Rattlesnake - great stuff. B.E. Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #676 Posted January 30, 2015 Blue Ensign - Thank you very much! Coming from you is quite a complement. I've been following your Pegasus build with great interest and have learned a lot stuff from you. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #677 Posted January 30, 2015 It was brought to my attention that the single shroud (cut-splice) should have been placed in the most aft position. This mistake was not corrected. It would have meant dismantling and re-installing all of the rigging for something that was almost impossible to see. If you looked closely you may have noticed that the lashings of the shrouds were made with a dark brown thread. This was done for two reasons. First when I tried using black thread on the black shroud, I couldn’t see what I was doing and therefore was doing a lousy job. My eyes are not the greatest. I’ve been wearing glasses since I was seven and now I need tri-focals and a clip-on eye loupe. The second reason was even if I did a good job, nobody would be able to see it. If that was the case why bother? Hence, a slight lighter thread but still dark enough solved both problems. Also, if you have microscopic vision, you may notice that I painted the bitter ends chocolate brown to simulate leather protective caps. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #678 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Mizzen Stay Working from inside to outside, the Mizzen Stay was next and it required a mouse. I saw a number of ways to construct this item. One was making a wooden cone, a pseudo mouse, and staining it black, another was going a step further and sizing the black cone, another method was building up the line with sizing to create the mouse, and final actually weaving a mouse on a jig. Since the stay had to be sized from the mouse all the way to the end loop, and due to the relatively small diameter of the stay and subsequently its mouse, I chose to build up the sizing to create the mouse. A measurement was taken to determine the location of the mouse and marked on the line with a light piece of thread tied to the appropriate mouse position. Edited January 30, 2015 by JSGerson Salty Sea Dog, Martin W and KenW 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #679 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) The mouse was built up into cone shape on the sizing machine and held in shape with some CA glue. Edited January 30, 2015 by JSGerson KenW, Salty Sea Dog, Martin W and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #680 Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) The Main Mast and its mast wedge were set into position and then another ring assembly made of stropped heart, a small ring, and a larger ring were lashed on. This ring assembly guides the Mizzen Stay where it is lashed to the deck rings. NOTE: Do Not Make This Mistake See Post 727 Edited April 16, 2015 by JSGerson Salty Sea Dog, CaptainSteve, KenW and 3 others 6 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted February 1, 2015 Share #681 Posted February 1, 2015 That's one terrific mouse, Jon. Looking back, I wish I had tried something like your method instead of the wooden version Bob does -- the built-up version really looks great. There's a good chance I could give you a run for the money in the Bad Eyes department. Don't you have an opti-visor? I've become addicted to mine, and have even begun considering getting a 2nd. Cheers, Martin Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott larkins Posted February 4, 2015 Share #682 Posted February 4, 2015 That was a lot of fun trying to tie that series of knots together I bet. I had to use two sets of tweezers and a magnifying glass to get it right. Your knots came out really nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share #683 Posted February 19, 2015 The Main Mast shrouds were next. Getting the deadeyes to line up proved to be troublesome. This may have been the result of my seizing the lines off the model using the sizing machine. Once the deadeye was sized, any adjustments to it were impossible. There was one other hiccup: if you ever drop a tiny part onto the model deck, finding and retrieving it is just a matter of pure luck. If it falls into one of the stairwells, it’s gone. That part will find a nook or cranny to wedge itself in. You will not get it back; period. This happened with a deadeye. I saw it drop onto the deck and then it vanished. That was it, poof! Because the kit had a finite amount of deadeyes, losing one and getting a replacement part wasn't an option with Mamoli who is now out of business. I had to make one. Luckily I had a leftover piece of a dowel that was the same diameter as the deadeye. I slice off a piece the same thickness as the deadeye and then drilled the three holes. The first time I tried it, I drilled the holes with a hand drill. That didn’t go so well as one hole angled into another. On my second attempt I was successful when I used my Dremel drill press rig. The piece was then hand filed to its final shape and then stained with Early American Min-wax. It worked. In the picture of the deadeyes below, the original one is on the right and my replacement on the left side. CaptainSteve, Blue Ensign, KenW and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSteve Posted February 20, 2015 Share #684 Posted February 20, 2015 Lookin' very fine, JS. And I challenge anyone to spot the newly-made deadeye when you are finished !! Quote CaptainSteve Current Build: HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft) My BathTub: Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models) Log: Queen Anne Barge (an build log) Bounty Launch (Model Shipways) Log: Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve Apostol Felipe (OcCre) HMS Victory (Constructo) Check It Out: The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy Website: The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted February 20, 2015 Share #685 Posted February 20, 2015 Jon -- I can't begin to count the little pieces that I dropped down into the hold of my own Rattlesnake. You're absolutely right that you'll never get it back, but you can always enjoy the rattle it gives your Snake!! The only way I managed to get my deadeyes lined up was to bend a piece of stiff wire -- I used a paper clip -- to the distance I wanted, and then hold the 2 deadeyes together while tightening the shroud to the desired tautness, and clamping the loose end up high enough to the taut end; only then would I wind the line through the 2 deadeyes. And I would still often have to make adjustments. But, on the other hand, there was a long discussion back on MSW 1.0 about whether or not the deadeyes should line up at all, since a working ship would always be adjusting the shrouds. Cheers, Martin usedtosail, Rao A.L.G. and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #686 Posted February 20, 2015 The way I have been doing the deadeyes was with a paperclip as you described. I'd wrap the shroud around the deadeye and grab the line tight to the deadeye with a strong clip so the deadeye couldn't move. Then I'd remove the shroud from the model making sure not to disturb the clip and attach shroud line to my seizing machine and seize the line in three places above the deadeye. Then shroud would then be returned to the mast and I do the other end. Trying to seize the line while on the model proved to be messy. I couldn't make a nice clean seizures wrapping the line by hand. I was wondering about how a working ship could keep the deadeyes lined up straight and basically you inferred they can't, so I feel better. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted February 20, 2015 Share #687 Posted February 20, 2015 I think moving the shroud off and back onto the model creates a big margin for error. The only way I found to seize deadeyes -- along with all the other knot-tying that goes into the shrouds and rigging generally -- was to get 2 pairs of fairly fine tweezers, and to become very used to them. Once you get to the numerous lines that pass under the tops, you find that you just have to have something smaller than fingers, and longer. It's easy to undrestand why so many people just skip the rigging altogether!! Cheers, Martin Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSGerson Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share #688 Posted February 20, 2015 I knew that back and forth business was the culprit, but I could make such nice tight seizings with my seizing machine. Yeah, I've got a number of various size needle tweezers, forceps, and what nots, but what I really need is a third or possible forth hand (preferably tiny ones) and my feet and toes just don't cut it! My only excuse (and it's not a good one) is this is my first crack at rigging one of these models where I think I know what I doing (debatable) so I have some slack? Martin W 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution Past Builds: Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted February 20, 2015 Share #689 Posted February 20, 2015 Jon -- Take all the slack you need, but just don't transfer it to the rigging -- ha! My first exposure to Bob Hunt's practicum was the rigging volume for the Ratt -- it got me through my Prince, and I don't know that anything else wouldhave at that point. And now, with 2 under my belt, my memory is that even 5 hands wouldn't be enough! But at the same time, I found that I could get a rhythm going so that the lines & tension made sense at the level of body memory. I don't mind rigging, but when I'm doing it I really miss working with the wood. Keep at it, pal, everything you've done so far looks great. Cheers, Martin Quote Current Build: HMS FLY 1776 Previous Builds: Rattlesnake 1781 Prince de Neufchatel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott larkins Posted February 20, 2015 Share #690 Posted February 20, 2015 Ha, I thought I was the only person with the misfortune of losing something down the stairwell. As for the twisting of the dead eyes, I've hung the waxed strings from my cross beams in the basement and hung weights on them. The strings untwist and stretch out the folds after a day or two. I've hung all of my strings now. I'll do the same thing with the running rigging when I get there. Martin W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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