Panart San Felipe 1:75 Updated Version Review

[Salty Dog]

Where to start? I've had this kit patiently waiting for me and I decided to get started. I have always wanted to build this kit and have had to restrain myself because I had other projects that I needed to finish.

This is the newer edition. It includes laser etched decking and several other changes that are supposed to make it much easier to construct. The hull came together very nicely. It feels nice and sturdy. Before you even start planking, it's already heavy. And then the fun starts...

due to the laser etched decks, the planking of the upper section of the ship has to be done in stages. If you were to manually plank the decks things would be much easier. But because of the size of each laser etched part, it becomes a tricky job. I have found myself having to rework several sections because the instructions are so bad....and that is why I'm writing this review now. I have yet to start planking the entire hull with the first layer, but I am so angry and discouraged by these lousy instructions that I thought I'd take a break to warn others that might be interested in building this kit.

Mantua/Panart in their haste to rewrite the directions to match the changes they made to the kit did a VERY bad job! I've seen the older kit and the drawings were beautiful. The directions were pretty bad, all text, but this is a very advanced kit and the builder should be able to interpret the drawings with little explanation. For this newer version they decided to create an manual full of photos, with very little text. That would be fine if the manual would have been made with care, but instead they made a mess out of everything. Pictures are often out of order and omit MANY steps and fail to mention many parts.

So I thought I would revert to going by the drawings. No problem...except for the fact that the drawings were not updated to match the changes made in the kit!

This makes it seem like one is building two different kits! Things get VERY confusing and if I didn't have experience in model ship building, I would probabbly give up. But even with experience, it is not a lot of fun. And I'm just getting started!

So beware if you are planning on buying this kit.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Salty Dog

[wq3296]

Greetings Salty,

 

Brian C. is absolutely correct. Step by step instructions are not usually required by an experienced builder. I think the folks who make higher end kits expect this and provide only basic instructions because they know experienced folks don't need step by step instructions. Euromodel kits I am familiar with take the same approach. How are the actual construction materials?

 

wq3296

[Salty Dog]

I agree with what you guys said, and I pretty much indicated that in my review.  What is unacceptable is that if the manufacturer makes changes to something, the they make no note of it.  They don't update the drawings, nor add an addendum to their instructions.  In some cases they replaced a part with a newer version and didn't upgrade the drawings.  In other cases a part on the drawing either no longer exists or they changed the part number and didn't indicate that.  I don't care how much of a pro you are, that's just no the way things work.

The pictures being completely out of order is also very misleading.  For instance, you have 3 parts.  In one picture they show parts 1 and 2 assembled, glued together.  Several pictures later, you're instructed to install part 3, except that part 3 goes "under" part 2 and now you have to unglue part 2 to get part 3 in.  And in the picture, part 2 isn't even installed yet!  In photographs parts just appear and disappear magically all out of order.  No excuse for that.

For the most part the materials are good, but again, some of the new laser etched parts are of the wrong dimensions.  Since these are made in a way to be installed "as is" with little to no modification, they won't fit that way.  You must alter then and in the process you destroy some of the nice etching.  The strip wood is pretty good, although some of the walnut strips are cut a little rough and seem dry.

I'm not a newbie by far.  I have constructed several of the BIG mantua ships, and several of the smaller kits.  My avatar is of the last ship I made which is The Cutty Sark by Mantua, and I encountered very few problems.  I have other BIG Mantua and Corel ships waiting in the wings.  I've pored over the drawings and instructions and so far they seem fine.  We'll see!

[NMBROOK]

Hi Salty Dog

 

I agree with your comments completely.I did not buy the kit,but I have bought the plans which include the new instructions and also the laser etched pack for the stern.You are correct,the instructions are darn right misleading.You can't simply ignore them and use the plans though,because these haven't been revised in the kit revamp!!It was the same but to a much lesser extent on my Royal Caroline build.Very little has been 'upgraded' in this kit,but the plans are still for the old style kit!I would rather have decent plans and no instructions,but when both are incorrect,what do you do??Frankly not good enough when you spend this sort of money!

 

Kind regards

 

Nigel

[Salty Dog]

EXACTLY Nigel,

For that kind of money and level of kit, much more attention should be paid to by the manufacturer. I recently got into plastic ships because there are several manufacturers making photo-etched brass parts for many of those kits. The PE kits are unbelievable. The details are beautiful. But the kits are very expensive. Some go for at least a couple of hundred dollars. For that kind of money, you should be provided with a quality item, and though the brass itself for the mosr part is fantastic, the documentation is often abysmal. And the documentation is critical in this case. Yet they put out sets with awful documentation. Wrong part numbers, bad illustrations, and most of all you are left with tons of parts still attached to the sprue when you're done that you have NO idea what to do with them.

Then you get the excuses such as "It's a small company. They don't have the money to make better documentation. " or "You're not supposed to use ALL of the parts, many are optional...." What the hell?! You mean I'm paying for stuff that I really don't need? And why go into the business if you can't afford a quality product yet charge through the nose? I'd gladly pay more for something well made.

I must be a very picky person.

[Ponto]

I hear the frustration and can empathize......with my my current Corel WVH build I often tire of the constant cross referencing between  the various sheets especially now that rigging is underway.  I'm often stymied as to how I should proceed for accuracy and blame the plans when things get complicated....however, I usually make sense of the plans' directions after having an "a hah!" moment and all the misdirection actually falls into place. I think It is just a matter of figuring out the method of madness used by each manufacturer. I also just felt the sting of what I consider a major purchase recently..... these kits are expensive  but when you break them down into the hundreds of components found in the boxes.... the price seems to be more reasonable (?) compared to the initial "sticker shock" associated with the kit as a whole........just my take at the moment.

 

JP

[marktiedens]

I feel for you Salty - having built the old version of this kit a number of years ago it seems as though they have cheapened it up somewhat.Mine had no laser etched decking or balsa & although the instructions were sketchy the plans & materials were pretty good.It was a pleasure to build & made into a nice looking model right out of the box.The first planking was lime & the second planking was a honey colored "walnut".

 

/Mark

Edited April 1, 2014 by marktiedens

[Salty Dog]

Ponto,

Funny you are responding to my post! The last PE set I purchased was from PONTOS! It cost me over $200 and it's chock full of errors. There are constant updates being released that one can download from their website. I remember when anything you purchased...worked! Obviously there were lemons, but the majority of the time the item functioned as advertised. Nowadays just about anything you buy is sold half baked. Its become a part of life that the first thing you have to do before you can enjoy your new purchase, you must first upgrade the firmware, apply a patch, etc. I am criticized sometimes for being so picky, but I feel that the complacency of consumers is what has created this trend. I for one want to take something home WORKING, and COMPLETE.

[Salty Dog]

I'll survive Mark,

I had actually purchased the plans long ago, and it was of the old kit. They looked great. I figured something UPgraded would be better. No such luck.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Salty Dog

[Ponto]

Ponto,

Funny you are responding to my post! The last PE set I purchased was from PONTOS! It cost me over $200 and it's chock full of errors. There are constant updates being released that one can download from their website. I remember when anything you purchased...worked! Obviously there were lemons, but the majority of the time the item functioned as advertised. Nowadays just about anything you buy is sold half baked. Its become a part of life that the first thing you have to do before you can enjoy your new purchase, you must first upgrade the firmware, apply a patch, etc. I am criticized sometimes for being so picky, but I feel that the complacency of consumers is what has created this trend. I for one want to take something home WORKING, and COMPLETE.

LOL... trust me,...I had nothing to do with the photoetch set you received... and again, I feel your pain. 

 

JP

[mtdoramike]

Any updates on your build and review Salty?

[maggsl_01]

Hi Salty,

 

just found your review as I am thinking about the San Felipe as one of my further projects. What you say about the expections one may have when you buy a quite expensive kit is absolutely right. Of course no one expects a step-by-stp-instruction like i n a plastic kit. If I would, I would build Tamiya or Revell... But I want to combine artwork, craftsmanship and relaxing. Therefore one can expect at least a correct set of plans and/or a booklet with pic and/or words. No need for both - but in every case it should be up to date.

 

Now I am unsure if I can dare to take the San Felipe some day. Perhaps they will improve the plans or the instructions (best would be both). Do you know if anyone has ever written to the company and told them about the lack of information within the plans? 

 

Have you continued the build?

 

Thank you for this thread - its very informative

 

Cheerio

 

Max

[testazyk]

That's a shame that they messed up such an interesting and quality ship model.  Way too much of that going on across the board.

[maggsl_01]

Yes  I agree... it's a pity that a renowned Company like Mantua acts like this. I am also quite dissapointed that the Quality of the brass decorations Mantua/Panart offers (I only know the Royal Caroline so far) is not always teh best. The decorations themselves are ok, some are really good. But especially the figures provided with the kit a not first Quality. Nowadays with all the CAD and the digital stuff it should be possible to create exact moulds and to cast real good figures. When I look at the huge plastic market there is a enormous offer of after-sales. I do not want to compare building wooden models with plastic models. I am so pleased that I reached the "Wood Level" and I will never return to plastic. And of course it is jhoy and fun to create parts of your ship with your own Hands and probably improve and/or scratch up your build. But there are parts like all that brass decorations that could be manufactured with more Attention. That could give us the Chance to make a good model a better model.

 

Or you scratch completely, even the figures (like Mr Mondfeld recommends ) But I admit: I havent reached this Level and I am not sure if I ever will or want... We all pay a good Price for the kits (eg the Royal Caroline costs about 300 Euros, additional about 100 euros for some other timber, Color, glue Tools...), a kit like SoS or San Felipe is about 700 to 900 Euros. I think you can expect the BEST Fittings possible.

 

But all this does not Limit the fun and joy of ship modelling at least

 

Thank you for your attention

 

Best wishes

 

Max

[mtaylor]

Max,

 

Part of the problem with castings is the same as with plastic models.  The age of the molds and how many parts have been cast.  Companies just don't like making new molds because of the cost.

[maggsl_01]

Yes Mark, I know, but they do not hesitate to take more money year by year

 

No - to be serious again... It is ok to get back the costs of an investment. This is clear and understood. But the molds are really old as the kits are available for many many years. So it would be nice and appropriate (better: fair) to re-invest some money into new molds. The customers would not only be delighted - they also would talk about this eg. in forums like this. So the reputation of the companies ... well ... would increase? But this is within the world of modellers, model-kits and manufacturers like it is in the real world outside our hobby: It all about money and profit.

 

So I close the door to my shipyard, take a partof wood and start to build a ship. And I will use the castings and be happy with my small but peaceful world where not profit is the most omprtant thing but the joy of creating such beautiful things as we do...

 

Opps - sounds like a epigram

 

Cheerio my friend

 

Max