MEDDO

Hi all,
 
My name is Dirk and recently joined the MSW forum.
 
I have always loved the looks of the old wooden sailing ships. Be it fishing boats, yachts, first rates or anything in between. They all have their own type of appleal.
 
I'm quite sure I 'inherited' the modelling bug through my late dad. Although so far I never started a wooden boat kit.
 
My dad did several times though (although both of us mostly in RC planes). His latest he never got to finish (BB Regina).  I'd love to complete it, as the end result, and process, would truely provide a threasured memory. Sadly, I have zero experience, thus need need to climb the learning curve.
 
I purchased a couple of kits to practice on, prior to completing dad's partial build.  Being 2 BB Marie Jeanne kits and 2 additional BB Regina's.
 
So, looking forward to the interaction with you all.
 
Sincerely
Dirk  (Belgium)

Thanks for the kind comments Ben and Rusty, and for all of the likes. Life seems to have gotten in the way lately, so progress has been slow.
The Whelps (P/N 029)
Five Whelps are required and the particular challenge in making these is that they are tapered both top to bottom and rear to front. The first step was to cut some blanks and then glue them up into a sandwich with the basic profile outline on one face.
 

 
Toni’s advice in the instructions was to make a couple of spares, so initially I glued up a set of seven blanks. Unfortunately, when it came to milling the sandwich, I found that it was too wide for the mill travel, so I had to unglue them and re-glue with just five in the sandwich.
The basic profile was then cut on the mill by angling the milling head as shown by Toni in the instructions. Here is my set-up halfway through the milling process:
 

 
And here is the end result. Note that the blanks were left slightly long to allow for any chip-out during milling.
 

 
The blank was then taken to the Byrnes saw and trimmed to length prior to soaking in an IPA bath to separate the individual pieces.
 
Once separated, holes were drilled for the bolts and the individual pieces carefully marked out for the tapers. The top to bottom taper was tackled first, and is relatively simple to achieve using the Byrnes disc sander to freehand sand to the marked lines. The rear to front taper was a little trickier. After carefully marking out, the angle was measured using a protractor and the tilting table of the Byrnes sander set to this angle. With a little care, the correct taper was achieved. Here are the pieces after all tapers had been cut/sanded.
 

 
The next challenge was to cut the notches for the Chocks. Like many things in woodworking (or metal working for that matter), the hardest part of the process is working out how to hold the work securely for the operation at hand. Having carefully marked out each piece for the notches, I found that my home-made Moxxon style vise was able to cope with the tapers quite well to hold the work.
 

 
I then used a miniature square and a marking knife to score the vertical cut line. This then provided a handy registration for the razor saw to make the vertical cut.
 

 
A freshly sharpened full sized chisel was then used to pare the angled cuts.
 

 
 
Having worked out how to hold the pieces, the actual cutting of the notches went quite quickly. Here are the completed Whelps.
 

 
The Chocks will be next but will probably have to wait a day or two until after the fat man in the red suit has been.
 
 

SeaWatch Books published a book by Justin Camarata called - Waterline Dioramas: A Modelbuilder's Artform  with a review here on MSW -
It might be out of print but if you can borrow one it will be a good read.
Check the model railroad sites as they do a lot of realistic water.

Dang Chuck my next is going to be Cheerful but you are making this project look so attractive.  

I'm working out the dimensions of the benches using bass wood pieces first. once I get it to where I'm satisfied (Certainly not perfect) I'll use the bass wood cut outs as templates to shape the cherry cut outs that are provided in the kit. I'm going to take my time tweaking in each angle until it's close enough to what I feel will work. There's nothing a little filler can't take care of anyhow.

Thank you to all the 'Likes'.
With the critical period finally over at my job, I was able to devote some time to my hobby again and finally finish planking the hull.
A good step passed. 🙂

 

 

 
I decided to proceed to the treenailing of the hull. But I unfortunately broke the only drill bit of size #78. While waiting for a new batch of drills to be delivered, I decided to proceed with the last task producing a large amount of sawdust: to thin down the bulwarks inboard.
 

 
I started by roughing it all up with my Proxxon rotary tool. Then I finished the process using various home-made tools on which sandpaper was glued.
 

 
You will notice that to consolidate the planking of the hull, I coated the inside with a thin layer of woodfiller.
I can now proceed to the installation of the false deck.

Not a special blade but a different one that I am using for wood. When I bought the saw many years ago, I bought a very fine toothed blade; 300+ teeth, assuming that a finer toothed blade would be better for smooth cuts in wood.  It didn’t work well for wood but is perfect for sheet brass.  Cuts are distortion free.
 
Roger

Have you checked out Vanguard models by Chris Waton? https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/
 
They are one of the top tier kit manufacturers out there.

Hi everyone, thank you all for your generous comments and likes.  Took care of a few items this week.  Started off by making two lockers.  They almost hide the fact that I cheated when I didn't thin down the outer stern frames. 
 

 
 
Made the washers for the horse using the technique that Chuck described in Chapter 10.  In a million years I wouldn't have thought of flattening wire to make a washer.  Next was prepping the rudder before mounting the pintles to it.  
 
 

 
 

 
 
When I test fitted the rudder with the pintles and gudgeons mounted there was a small gap between the gudgeon and the stern post.  It's difficult to see here.  Perhaps a thousandth or two.  Probably too much sanding.  So in order not to have a struggle mounting the rudder I added a shim to the gudgeons and sanded them down to maybe a 1/64 of an inch.
 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
Attached the lower gudgeon to the stern post, mounted the rudder, and laid out the other two gudgeons.
 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
It was time to make the ladders.  I didn't feel that I would be able to cut slots in the stringers with any amount of accuracy so it was done "cut & paste". 
 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 
Just needs more sanding and thinning down the outside of the stringers a bit more.  One more ladder to go.
 
See you next time.......Paul
 

Thanks everyone for comments and likes
 
The margin  planks and waterways are now complete so I'll try to document the process. In the above post it shows a piece shaped to the bulwarks which was used to cut the forward margin planks. I used a drafting compass to mark the 1/4" width of the plank. Cut the piece close to the line on the scroll saw.

 
After cutting the inner shape it was sanded to the line a spindle sander.

 
Now I marked the first scarf on the piece after fitting to the stem. Using a #11 blade the scarf was cut, but two problems arose from the cutting. The first was cutting across the grain of the maple required many passes and the result was the cut was too wide with edge angles and the second was the small portion broke off when the blade finished the cut. Many attempts resulted with one or both results so another process needed to be developed. Looking at the traced pattern of the scarf maybe it would be easier to saw the cuts and then finish with the flats.
 
The traced scarf shape
 

 
Next I sanded the flat portion of the scarf
 

 
The tab protruding from the recessed portion is what kept breaking while cutting with the #11 blade. After sanding I put the piece in a small vise so the recessed line was level with the top of the vise jaws and used a razor saw to make the cuts.
 

 
Then it was a simply paring down to the level of vise jaws. A little filing and I had a joint. Made the balance of the margin pieces the same a the fore section. Still had several joints/pieces that had to be remade but a lot easier with this method. Once the margins were glued down I made 1/32" strips for the waterway. In doing this I realized that there had been no mention of scuppers. I see them in the photos and drawings so I guess that's my next step.
 
Margin Planks and Waterways
 

 
On to scuppers
 
Regards
Will
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Keep in mind we did moderate that that topic.   And what you cant see,   is that we did speak to those who treated the OP badly.  There is and will be no tolerance for belittling other members.   We have hundreds of members who may not be experts or they may even be beginners.   To call what they have posted as a tip or suggestion "trash"   is not something we want to condone at MSW.  We have many new builders who are proud of what they have done.  They want to share their methods and work.  It may not be perfect or masterful.  But they dont deserve to be treated badly.  And you wonder why new folks dont stick around.   Its because of people like those members who bashed the guy.  I counted six.  And I must say if those six experts suddenly vanished from the site...it would be less impactful then the scores of new builders alienated and poorly treated by them. 
 
These so called experts who love to pontificate (you know who they are)  will not be allowed to treat other members like dirt.   They have been formally warned.   If they continue...they will be banned.  The OP of that topic was NOT banned.   Nor was the topic removed.  It was being cleaned up and pruned of the nasty remarks other members were making.    Such as the one below.  Who would actually have the balls to to post THIS!!!   ...on another persons topic no less.   They should be ashamed of themselves.  As if they are so perfect.   
 
Pompous posters who love to pontificate on their wealth of knowledge be warned....do not treat folks this way.  There is a way to teach and educate without being a bully.  You guys are certainly NOT mentor material.  You get three strikes.....if the behavior continues...you are out.  The bully below says the member wasted his time.   You know what wasted my time...cleaning up the hate you decided to post all over someone elses topic.   That was a waste of my time.   Sending you a private message and issuing warnings to the folks who think they are "genius" masters who everyone should kiss up to....that was a waste of my time.
 
found the video a total waste of time. So what's to respect in the effort to make it and why do you care whether the poster "is getting pleasure in his task?" I know I may be criticized for being "insensitive," but I don't respect the efforts people put into posting useless, let alone erroneous, "how-to-do-it" videos on the internet and I could care less whether the people who post such drivel are getting pleasure from it. They waste everybody else's time. Who has the bandwidth to waste on junk content?
 
And here is the kicker.....non of the so -called MASTER builders in their INFINITE WISDOM of all things...posted a better method...or the correct historical reference.  They made ZERO attempt to politely state that there may be a better way or a more historically accurate way.   No attempt to teach or mentor.  They just bashed the guy and went on long Rants...like this one I am now forced to write about how so many people dont know as much as they do and yet post on You tube and the internet all this bad wrong information.....making society more stupid.
 
18 posts by expert bullies were pruned from that topic leaving just two replies.   All 18 had no value other than to belittle.   Shameful.   Talk about a waste of time reading those.   The replies of the bullies had no value what so ever.  Except of course maybe to allow the bullies to hear themselves claim omnipotent dominance of all things in the Universe. 

Thank you albert.
Forecastle and quaterdeck breastwork.

I do that sometimes but often just rely on selective focus of the webcam making me look sharp and everything else as a blur.  I have been accused of false advertising when I look sharp though.😎

Only a little update as my workshop is a little indisposed at the moment, plus I'm heavily into a PlayStation game too. 😆
 
I really do like the colour of the timber in this little kit. The fest parts to use are for making the lower capstan. 

 
 
The column sections are first slid onto the 1/16 square strip. Note the thicker one sits at the end. These are then glued to each other, but NOT the strip! Aligning these is easy as you simply align the edges which have the connection tabs present.


 
 
When dry, the narrow edges are cleaned up and evened out. These will be visible between the chocks. 


 
 
Now onto the whelps. This sheet is engraved on both sides to accommodate the chocks.


 
 
As we all know, removing char is important 😉 The char on the outside edges of these is now carefully removed. 
 
 

 
More as soon as I can get back into my workshop!

This will be a more conventional kit. I cannot go as far as did with Sphinx for two reasons. The first being that the sheer size of this would make it way too expensive. The second reason is that this kit will be aimed at more experienced modellers, more used to planking. Decks will be planked with strip and most of the outer hull will also be planked from the quarterdeck bulwarks down. This will be more like my Amati Victory designs. There will still be a silly amount of laser cut and PE parts, though.

A little history (edited from wiki!)
 
HMS Indefatigable was one of the Ardent-class 64-gun third-rate ships-of-the-line designed by Sir Thomas Slade in 1761 for the Royal Navy. She was built as a ship-of-the-line, but most of her active service took place after her conversion to a 44-gun razee frigate. She had a long career under several distinguished commanders, serving throughout the French Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Wars. She took some 27 prizes, alone or in company, and the Admiralty authorised the issue of four clasps to the Naval General Service Medal in 1847 to any surviving members of her crews from the respective actions.
 
Indefatigable was ordered on 3 August 1780 (long after Slade's death), and her keel was laid down in May 1781 at the Bucklers Hard shipyard in Hampshire owned by Henry Adams. She was launched in early July 178,  and completed from 11 July to 13 September of that year at Portsmouth Dockyard as a 64-gun two-decked third rate for the Royal Navy. She had cost £25,210 4s 5d to build; her total initial cost including fitting out and coppering was £36,154 18s 7d (around £6.6m in today's money). By that time, she was already outmoded for the role of a ship of the line as the French only built the more powerful 74-gun ships, and she was never commissioned in that role.
 
She was broken up in 1816.
 
The kit
This is quite literally hot off the press with regards to what you see here. Indefatigable is being represented in this new kit as the razée, and quite rightly so. I do have a lot of affection for the stuff built at Bucklers Hard, having visited there a couple of times myself. It's a beautifully tranquil place in England's New Forest, which really does betray the hive of activity it used to be. It even has the original shipwrights houses and the pub there, as part of the tour. Just to think, Indefatigable was definitely built in one of these two slips, as was Agamemnon etc. I took these photos a couple of years ago.
 



 
This is very stuff for Indefatigable, as all I currently have are the cannon, carronades, and also the cutter. It will also become very obvious that when building these models, I never do anything in chronological order as seen in the manual. I work on whatever Chris has completed and sends over to me, with other work infilling between main tasks. I try to waste as little time as possible in order to keep to fairly tight release schedules. For the first time you'll see me work on stuff like this before the big hitters are sent to me. Even then, I will feed back with my findings and things will possibly be changed to reflect my own build. 
 
Not too much to see at the moment, and work won't start proper for a week or so, so keep checking in to see if things have progressed. Here's the two sheets of 2mm pear which contain the gun carts...




 
I also have three bags of guns. These are:
12-pound long 24-pound long 42-pound carronades  
I do need to wash these guns in some isopropyl, especially the carronades as the initial washing left then with tissue debris on them. Also, the carronade carriages will also have 3d-printed wheels! 





 
Indefatigable will have many of the design traits of Sphinx, but this time incorporate more traditional planking around the upper bulwarks and gun ports etc. Indy will also feature a traditionally planked deck too. 
 
Here are the parts for the cutter:
 


Chris might want to chime in here with other notes on the design too. 
 

While awaiting Chucks cross-section maybe consider a x-section of Echo? The plans and build log are available for free from Admiralty Models
http://www.admiraltymodels.com/Tips.html

If you have not yet read Kurt Van Dahm's article on shop safety in the current Nautical Research Journal (pp.375-381), please take the time to do so. It may save you a lot of grief.

A little more work at the stern gets me closer to finishing it up.
There was a little bit of clean up needed around the lower counter and then the frieze and moldings below it were added.
Also the rest of the cove pieces were installed and outer fish/dolphin figures added.
 

Hello Ian, and a warm welcome to MSW from 'Down Under'.
 
if you're feeling a bit intimidated by the thought of building a model, just keep in mind that none of us had a clue what we were doing when we started! 
 
John

Hello Salts and Bilge Rats,
 
My name is Ian. I reside in the beautiful dust bowl that is the Central Valley of California. I grew up in Santa Cruz, California and spent a formidable amount of time in my youth and early 20's  on the ocean commercial fishing. I started at the age of 12 with my dad and moved on to other boats that traveled further rather quickly. Back then, the further traveled, the better.
 
I've worked on the on the Pacific from San Diego to Alaska, and off shore up to 2600 miles on boats from 37 feet to 70 feet. Fished Salmon, Tuna, Sword Fish, and Herring, on seiners, gill netters, and trollers.  I've worked for unbelievably awesome Norwegian, Italian, and Portuguese fishermen. I have a love for the romance of the sea, but learned that the days, months, and years spent in relative isolation and loneliness was too much for me. When the  fishing was good, the mind was occupied, but if it was slow fishing or we were laid up due to weather for any stretch of time...well it drove me nuts!
 
I have no scale modeling skills or experience. I'm here to learn about it and give it a try. I am going to try the hull planking project for my first attempt. I'm hoping that the build thread for that construction endeavor helps to guide me. My ultimate goal is to learn to build by scratch so that I can build a class Monk Designed West Coast Salmon Troller. I think I saw original plans once while surfing the internet that you can buy from builders that own the plans now. I don't have any idea what I'm doing, so we'll see.  Westward we go, easy by easy!

After some consideration David and I have decided that the topic of next year's workshop will be on clinker style planking. To me there is nothing lovelier than a clinker planked hull but they are a bit more difficult to successfully execute than the traditional carvel planking. For this workshop the participants will be provided with a laser cut hull section (to be assembled prior to the workshop).  The principles of clinker planking will be taught and the participants will be doing their own planking over the course of the 1 1/2 day workshop. The workshop will take place in Baltimore, MD, probably towards the end of May'2022. We will also be taking a trip to Prebble Hall the day before (or after) in order to view the magnificent Rogers collection. Now that Grant Walker is back a guided tour is always awesome.
 
As with everything else in the past two years all depends on the Covid rates at that time but life goes on and we are making plans. If you are interested in attending this workshop please send a PM or e-mail to me at dvm27@comcast.net so that I can add you to our e-mail group list. Also, please indicate whether a mid-week workshop might work for you. Hotels, workshop space and restaurants are generally easier mid-week than weekends and a trip to the Naval Academy could be incorporated on the second afternoon.
 

 
Alert, clinker hull by Roger Cole
 

It seems that time has gotten away from me again! Thanks Bob and Tom for your kind comments and for all of the "likes". On with the show!
 
Hatch (P/N 102)
This is the trickiest part of the build to date. It is made so by the joinery for the hatch, with the Coamings and Head Ledges being joined by “tailed half-lap joints”. This means that the joints are angled in two planes. It took some time to get my head around these joints, and after a few failed attempts I had to walk away for a few days before trying again. Then I got distracted with other tasks around the house and suddenly it was a few weeks before I got back to it.
 
The key to success here is accurate marking out. To make the first half of the joint, measurements were taken from the drawings. I found my set of set-up blocks most useful for this task, along with a marking knife. The pencil was only used to go over the knife lines to improve their visibility. 
 

 

 
The second half of the joint must be marked directly from the first half, and this is the most difficult part. The method I finally succeeded with was to mark a pin prick with the marking knife to correspond with all four extremities of the first half of the joint. Then it was a case of using a ruler and the knife to “join the dots”. Cutting the joints was achieved with a razor saw and a full size, very sharp chisel. By keeping away from the marked lines initially, I was then able to pare to the line with the chisel and make any minor adjustments for a good fit.
 
I got so engrossed in this process that I forgot to take any progress shots. Here is an example though of the joints cut, showing the angles in two planes. This picture is actaully of some “rejects”.
 

 
Once I had satisfactory joints in all four corners, they were glued up and the rabbet pieces cut to size and fitted.
 
The sides of the hatch are vertical for the bottom half, and then taper inwards by one-half inch (actual size). Rather than using a sanding block to achieve this, I used a marking gauge to define the extremities of the taper and then used a block plane to remove the excess material. I used my home-made mini Moxxon vise to hold the piece while I planed the sides, coming in from both ends to avoid breakout on the cross-grain joint.
 

 
Here is the finished Hatch, ready for installation of the grating.
 

 
The grating was then carefully adjusted for a snug fit. I found I needed to sand just the slightest amount off each side of the grating. It was then glued in place and the top surface sanded level with the hatch sides.
 

 
  
I was contemplating how to mark out the positions for the fasteners, when it hit me that the answer was staring me in the face. I simply cut out the scale drawing of the grating and taped it over my grating. I then used my home-made needle point scribing tool to mark the positions.
 

 
Once the pattern was removed, a pencil lead was twirled in the holes and the surface sanded lightly.
 

 
And finally, here is an overview of progress to date:
 

 
That completes all the “easy” part of this build. Next up we commence some lathe work with building of the Capstan body.
 

I know Billings do a sailing Thames barge, that was my first ever wooden kit purchase!
 
I will have another two fishing related kits out after these, and that will be it for this line for a very good while.
 
Here are the new boxes, fully printed box tops for these.

@giampieroricci
Thanks for the recognition.
I admire your work as well.
I would also like to thank everyone else for the many LIKES.
 
Continuation: Mizzen topgallant and mizzen roayl shrouds
The shrouds on the royal mast on my corvette have a model scale of 0.25 mm. The following picture shows a prepared shroud with integrated thimble (ø 0.9 mm) and the counterpart for the lanyard lashing, which is attached to the end of the crosstree of the topgallant mast.
  

In this context I show again the thimbles I used on this model, which are made of blacked brass. The smallest thimble has a diameter of around 0.9 mm.

 
The mast trucks that were stupidly glued in place by me when building the topgallant masts are of course extremely cumbersome when laying the shrouds and stays. It is very problematic when attaching the stay collars with the integrated thimbles. So I tried to carefully remove these mast trucks again. This worked quite well for the fore and main mast. With the mizzen mast, on the other hand, it did not work with the best will in the world without causing damage. As an alternative, I therefore tried to install the collar for the lifts of the mizzen royal yard directly on the model, which ultimately succeeded with the help of a corresponding device.

   
I tried the first variant with a rope ø 0.35 mm for the collar and with thimbles ø 1.2 mm. The dominance of this collar on the royal mast top bothered me and seemed immeasurable to me. So I started another attempt with a rope ø 0.25 mm for the collar and with thimbles ø 0.9 mm, which now suits me much better.

 
So the next picture shows the completed standing good of the mizzen mast, starting with the crosstrees.

  
Which means I can then move on to the main mast to attach the royal stay and shrouds there too. I have already prepared the royal shrouds for the main and foremast with other corresponding rigging components as shown in the last picture.

 
Up soon …