Deperdussin1910

"Almost every person using these steps would have had some practice at sea, including running up the rigging and negotiating the overhung ratlines underneath mast-tops. "  Well said!  I learned to climb the futtock shrouds into the fight tops.

I have added the flags - bought at http://www.schiffsmodellflaggen.de. I'm quite happy with the quality, waterproof (this being a remote controlled model), and a thin fabric, which flows even with light winds.
Instructions came with the flags how to cut them out, and glue them - had been quite a while, since I had a pressing iron in my hand 😄
 
The flags come in different sizes, not for all flagpoles was I able to get the precise historic size to scale - this is due to our unusual scale of 1:26.67, I assume. Still, I'm happy with the results!
 

 

Hi all,
 
after the original forum, where I started posting our build log, has become very silent, I hope to find a more interested audience here!
 
I have been persuaded by my son, then 8, to build a wooden model ship (he had been inspired by seeing a wooden model of a Minoan galley, shown in a excavation museum found on the Greek island of Paros - a reconstruction based on murals 3800 years old).
As we were reading a book on Francis Drake at the time, it had to be a sailing ship of roughly that area, of course remote controlled, of course with functioning cannons, and reefing sails was also a desired feature.
 
A good friend of ours builds cardboard models, he gave me a cardbord model kit for the Papegojan from 1624, scale 1:98 - the plans of which I stretched by 320% (such it will just fit into the trunk of our car - and the bigger, the better for real sailing).
Our model measures ~1200mm from stern to tip of the bowsprit, and displaces 9.6 kg.

 
Also, we changed the name to "Zeta", and made some minor modifications to the original, as preferred by my son.
Apart from that, we have tried to stick as much as possible to historical correctness as possible - with some small compromises to allow radio controlled sailing - I will point these out.
 
For sailing, all sails will be contolled as in the original, with the help of bracing winches (I hope this it the correct English term).
Sails also allow reefing, not fully historically acurate, for reasons of mechanical implementation, but more or less close to it.
Cannons can be fired remotely, and are also planned to allow running in and out of the ship, gun ports opening and closing respectively.
 
At this time, the hull and all details are complete, so is the rigging - what is missing are the bracing/reefing reels to complete the sail steering unit; the mechanical and software part for cannon control, and the lead ballast.
 
Here are some teaser pictures:

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

 
if you are interested in a detailed build log (we learned a lot on our journey), let me know, and I will translate the original log (in German) and continue posting here!
(As this is our first model, and there were many things we did not initially know about model making as well as about historical sailing ships, we have created a comprehensive log with a lot of explanations, as I felt the relevant information did not exist in a single place elsewhere.)
 
Greetings from Vienna, Austria,
 
-Roman

The spar deck is done on the New York.

Good Day to all
 
Back on the air after all the Covid shenanigans.
 
I manage to build my shed (7m x 5m), installed tables and my equipment.
 
Although it seems complete, the job is still not done, but the most important is there including a coffee machine and music.
 
Regards
 
Andre

At last the weather has changed and the forcast is for a several consecutive dry days. I can finally remove the tarpaulin and polythene sheets, which have often appeared more like sagging water balloons recently, and work on making the roof waterproof.
I reversed my original plan and worked on the more straightforward sections first before attempting the more challenging one adjacent to the garage wall.
A bit of advanced planning to find the optimum way to cut the six 8' x 4' 18mm to minimize waste resulted in less than half a square metre of ofcuts.

Not pretty but it does the job. Now for the fun part....

Relying heavily on the three 'Ls', leverage, lateral thinking and luck, the the final panel was constructed on the roof and dropped into place. I took steps to ensure the whole assembly couldn't fall down the narrow gap between garage and workshop wall. At about 16' long and a couple of feet wide it was quite weighty! After marking the end profiles it was pulled back out and trimmed ready for covering.

First a layer of breathable membrane, then one of bitumen felt underlay. Next the detail trim was tacked into place followed by one course of bitumen shingles. I could have added a second but found that they would be accessible for nailing when the section was in place so dropped the idea as the already weighty panel was even heavier now.

With much care and trepidation the section was eased across to its balance point and then nudged over while being supported by a loop of rope. The plan worked! Next I had the Admiral maning a 4' length of 2" x 4" on the inside to lever the panel up to fine tune the fit while I screwed it to the top of the roof frames. Membrane and underlay sheets that had been left unattached were now fixed down. 
Job done. The plan for tomorrow is to complete these two layers across the whole roof making it watertight. The shingles won't be added until the six roof lights are in place. These will be the next challenge 😉
Cheers,
Graham.

It's been a while!
 
Which doesn't mean I wasn't working on the Zeta - just that I did not find as much time, due to some personal matters, and changing jobs. Also, admittedly, the current work on the ship isn't the most exciting, and quite tedious.
 
In order to complete our sail steering unit, I had to measure the precise sheet rope movement distances for all sail bracing positions. This data is necessary to correctly dimension the bracing winches later.
 
My measurement approach is as follows
all sails were brought into default position (in right angle to keel; except mizzen sail, I'll discuss this later). sheet ropes are (temporarily) led out of the hull, to a reference point (in our case, the edge of the table on which the ship resides - the ship being secured against moving) sheet rope ends attached to weights, to assure ropes are taut ropes are marked at the reference point (sails in default positions; "zero-point") now, yards, outhauls are braced in 10° steps (and eased off respectively on the other side of the ship) made sure the ropes are all taut the difference between reference point and zero-point is measured For measuring the correct angles, I used cardboard half-discs with respective markings.
Now I had to take the needed 286 measurements (22 sheet ropes, 9 sail positions) - and this takes a while! When I was done, it turned out that there were some discrepancies between starboard and portside, which were hard to explain by the slight imprecision of the hand-built rigging. Also, some measurement sequences of single sheet ropes from 0°, 10°, 20°, ..., 60°) were not harmonious for my taste.
 
It took several attempts to eliminate (hopefully!) all measurements errors:
The angle measurement half-discs need to fixed well, horizontally and vertically sheet ropes must not be confused - marking them, as well as their reference points, helps the weights for keeping the sheet ropes taut must not be too heavy - otherwise, they might draw additional rope out of the ship unnoticed before the measurement is taken (ropes with a pulley being especially susceptible) As our parrels mount the yard relatively loosely on the mast (to allow sufficient rotation of the yard, up to 60°, for remote controlled sailing), the correct, right angle between yard and mast must be assured As outhauls are controlled by sheet rope and tack, it must be assured that the sail hangs vertically to the ground, fully stretched, to allow correct measurements. Since the sails warp easily, and normally are not taut, I had to build temporary wooden frames for sails with outhauls (all except topsails), and attach them to the sails to assure the correct shape, and thus, outhaul positioning The above learnings came at a stiff price - I ended up with taking all measurements 2.5 times. Each time, it means adjusting 8 ropes, cheking tautness, angels, re-adjusting until everything fits properly, and then measuring and taking down the numbers. Only after the last pass I'm fairly confident on the numbers 🙂
The topsail yards were especially tricky - the ropes controlling them come from below in a quite steep angle - getting the yard position right, without deforming the relatively thin yard was challenging.
 
I was quite happy that sails, yards can be well rotated from -60° to +60°, and also the friction of the ropes in their piping is pleasantly low.
Here a few pictures from the measurement process:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
The mizzen sail is handled differently. For this, we only control its outhaul - for the mizzen rod, we forgot to lay piping back in the days. But that is not too bad, as the mizzen sail has very limited movement, and is not really relevant for powering the ship. According to the experts, it was used to create rudder pressure, as well as (together with the spritsail) trim the ship.
 
Under wind from abaft, the mizzen sail will be allowed to take one of two positions - the rear end of the mizzen rod may be fully veered to either portside or starboard (depending on the previous maneuver).
When the ship luffs, the mizzen sail outhaul is braced more and more, until it's fully tight. On the lee side, we do not want to further add sheet rope, i.e., veer, as this rope is in fully veered state already.
 

 
This means, the pair of brace winches for the respective side of the ship will pull in rope for the windward side, while adding as little as possible for the leeward side, i.e., that winch will not consist of more than the axle itself.
 
And here the measurements:
 

 

 
 

The forward deadeyes are in.  This was slow work but now that all the pieces are built things should go faster.  

Can't believe this thread is still alive.  For what it's worth, here's a picture of the futtock shrouds on my 1/24 scale RC NIAGARA during the build...

Can't believe this thread is still alive.  For what it's worth, here's a picture of the futtock shrouds on my 1/24 scale RC NIAGARA during the build...

To Maxx...if you are still interested...
 
Re: "The hulls are either much deeper and way out of scale or there is wing below the keel. Either one tends to make a model sort of a pig when viewed on shore?  (A very personal judgement since esthetics is not something that fits a formula.)"
 
Solution:  Make the scale sailing hull you want.  Deeper draft hulls are better because they give you more room below deck and can carry more ballast.  The larger/longer the hull...the better the sailing characteristics...less corking/hobby horsing.  Water proof the hull.  Make hatches to be as large as possible to access the RC gear below deck.  To obtain windward performance and scale hull appearance, make a detachable keel.  Keep your build as light as possible and put all ballast needed for the Load Water Line at the bottom of the keel.
 
Attached picture shows a 25 pound detachable keel for a three masted schooner.   Threaded rods are glued into the keel and pass through the keel of the model in tubes and then are secured with wing nuts.  This model can carry an additional 25 pounds of internal ballast.
 
The limit to the size of you model is in lifting and transportation restrictions.

To Maxx...if you are still interested...
 
Re: "The hulls are either much deeper and way out of scale or there is wing below the keel. Either one tends to make a model sort of a pig when viewed on shore?  (A very personal judgement since esthetics is not something that fits a formula.)"
 
Solution:  Make the scale sailing hull you want.  Deeper draft hulls are better because they give you more room below deck and can carry more ballast.  The larger/longer the hull...the better the sailing characteristics...less corking/hobby horsing.  Water proof the hull.  Make hatches to be as large as possible to access the RC gear below deck.  To obtain windward performance and scale hull appearance, make a detachable keel.  Keep your build as light as possible and put all ballast needed for the Load Water Line at the bottom of the keel.
 
Attached picture shows a 25 pound detachable keel for a three masted schooner.   Threaded rods are glued into the keel and pass through the keel of the model in tubes and then are secured with wing nuts.  This model can carry an additional 25 pounds of internal ballast.
 
The limit to the size of you model is in lifting and transportation restrictions.

Here are the finished mast, boom gaff and bowsprit.  Made of mahogany with 3 coats of poly and the tips painted white.

Hard to say, the sailing control unit with its 24 bracing winches, plus 24 gear transmission winches will take some time - then the cannons have to be fitted, the mechanism to open the gun ports and deploy them, retract them will be another major effort!
 
Smaller things will be creating the lead ballast, and the Arduino cannon firing software.

Next year is likely the earliest manageable 🙂

I crewed on this vessel.  Let me tell you, the first few times going up the rig are breath taking.  I got used to it.  And remember, the rig is moving around even more than the ship.  Doing the same at night with a star filled sky...PRICELESS!

Steven, my research lines up with your thoughts that a North Atlantic galley would be more robust.  I particularly think they would have a higher bow, more sheer, and a single bank of oars...maybe broader beam as well.  My information on operations lines up with what you already know.  I'm still uncertain of the number of masts...one or two.  A single sail on a higher mast would have a higher center-of-effort would create more heel on a narrow beam galley.  Two masts would have sails with lower center-of-efforts for a narrow beam galley.  I'm still waiting for a response from THE historian on Grace O'Malley, Anne Chambers.  Interestingly, a recent promotion of her efforts shows a vessel with two masts with lateen sails which looks like a 17th c. Dalmatia model I found on the web.
 
Roger, you bring up an interesting question.  When did the transition occur from lapstrake to carvel on the west coast of Ireland?  I contend that this clan had early and longer exposure to Mediterranean practices then most clans and certainly those that stayed on the Irish sea.  Could or would they have tried to use lapstrake skin on a Mediterranean design?  This is the clan, fighting to keep the Celtic world alive, that went against tradition by following a female chieftain.
 
 
-Since I have several references to Grace exposure to ‘Barbary Pirates’ , I wanted to learn how they operated their galleys for information on how Grace may have used hers…

-The attacking ship’s captain would aim to ram the victim, so that the fighters could swarm aboard from the raised prow. (this is the main reason for the high prow…faster boarding of enemy vessels.

-The long boarding prow was called a spur…(Irish Galleys) were probably similar but simpler… to (xebecs)

-The Barbary slave galleys were enclosed at the stern to provide shelter for the company of Janissaries who formed the ship’s fighting force. (Here is a clear advantage that Grace had…her free oarsmen were also fighters…a massive increase to her fighting power….this is noted in other sources).

-Galleys relied on speed for their success, and this was impossible without frequent careening. The galley would be beached, and laboriously scraped to remove the coating of barnacles and weed that adhered below the water-line. A coating of wax helped it to slip smoothly through the water. Careening had to be repeated every two months or so.

-Lateen sail(s) propelled the galley when there was enough wind, but it was the oarsmen who provided the power in a chase, when sailing into the wind, or on a calm day. (So as I thought, the sail(s) were used as much as possible to save the strength of the rowers for a chase...especially if your free Irish rowers are also part of your fighting force.)

-The Knight’s (of Malta starting in the 1530s) galleys had a legendary reputation for speed and maneuverability; they could sail very close to the wind, and their 3-foot (1 meter) draught allowed them to pursue their quarry in the shallowest water. (Grace would need a vessel with these qualities as her galleys sailed the bays and inlets of the western coast of Ireland.

-In the era of the galley, there seems to have been a fairly consistent approach to pursuit and capture. As the pirates closed in on their victims, they would fire the canon at the bows(and the crew makes fearsome noises), but more by way of a warning than for the destructive power of the ball.(I've found no records of her galleys using cannon and I think she would not have wanted to row the additional weight for the minimal impact).

At this point, I'm still leaning toward a plain galley with two sails that has a raised prow and a covered stern house. I'm still waiting on an important email response that would be influential to my build.
 
More research to come...

Research on what type of galley:

It is a challenge determining which full size vessel to model. No archeological remains have been found which would enable a detailed reconstruction of the Irish galley in question. So, I need to determine the most logical choice of vessel given my level of research. There will be no absolute correct choice until they un-earth an O’Malley galley.

-There is no shortage of information about galleys used in the Mediterranean during the Greek and Roman empires. These are well before the late 1500s that I’m researching. It is harder to find information outside the Med. However, there were two very important naval battles that can shed some information. The 1571 Battle of Lepanto and the 1588 Armada show galleys with triangular sails. Countering this is a 1588 minted English Armadian medal depicting a single square sail on a Spanish galley. Is this just artistic license?

-The battle of Lepanto was fought in the Med. and the Armada was fought in the English channel. This shows that galleys were used outside of the Med. Importantly, galleys where still used into the early 19th century in the Baltic. This shows that given the right coastal conditions, they could still be an effective fighting force.  

-Which type of sailing rig would have been used: square sail, lug sail, or triangular/ lateen sails? It’s generally considered that fore-and-aft sails are more maneuverable in-shore than square sails. Grace O’Malley used the islands, bays, and coves, of Western Ireland to her advantage. Would she have been sailing these waters or rowing? Importantly, here crews were free clansmen and not chained galley slaves. I think she would have kept the strength of her oarsmen until the last rush towards an enemy and for fighting. So, a more maneuverable fore-and-aft sails is likely.

-For hundreds of years, the O'Malley clan traded with Spain and Portugal. This would have given them an extensive exposure to Mediterranean craft of the leading maritime powers. For clan strength, they probably incorporated any Mediterranean design that would have given them a trading or raiding advantage.

-The Clare Island Abbey where Grace O’Malley is reported to be buried has a carved stone ship image which shows a high sided, single-mast (square-sail yard?) of a 12-oar vessel. All visual evidence must be weighed with written evidence because artists may have never seen the vessel they are depicting. And, this carving may have been created well after the death of Grace.

-The best supporting evidence for the Clare Island carving is the recreation of a Scottish galley. The most surprising thing I found out about these vessels is that "Celtic Berlinn Nyvaigs (Scotish Galley) preceded Viking longboats, not the other way around". The recreation vessel built and sailed in the 1990s is called the galley Aileach which has a single mast and carries a square sail. But, later research stated this design misleading in its short length (40’) and cramped rowing stations. In its favor, it does have a high sided bow to handle the rougher northern European waters. Along with, “Both Celtic & Nordic galleys could have two or three men on each oar so even a small galley could transport 40 to 50 warriors quickly…The larger galley could hold more than 100 warriors" This suggest that one could count crew by the number of oars, then double or triple that and then add a speculative number of transported warriors.

-Some of Grace O’Malley’s struggle against the English is recorded in the written evidence of the English State Papers. For example in 1559, "There are three very good galleys with Tibbot ne Longe, sone to Grany O’Malley, his brother and O’Malley that will carry 300 men apiece…” This suggests a much larger vessel than the typical 8 to 12 oar vessels common at the time. And in July of 1601, the HMS Tramontana captured an O'Malley 30-oar galley with "a hundred good shots"...which suggests more than 100 aboard. The transporting of warriors was part of the O’Malley trading practice.

…more research to come

The mast steps, limber strakes and limber boards are shown in this set of photos.

Glen, your build caught my eye because I have the USS Franklin on my long list of 'too be built' models.  I've always had a hard time keeping straight which ships were launched and where, because 18 of the authorized American ships-of-the-line were not launched due to being: cancelled, abandoned, altered, burnt, or not even built.  So, I made a list.  I hope it's of some esoteric interest.  Cheers!
 
US Ships-of-the line by launch date
 
USS America was launched at Rising Castle Island (Kittery ME), 5 November 1782 (given to France)
USS Independence was launched from the Boston (Charlestown) Navy Yard, 22 June 1814
USS Washington was launched at the Portsmouth Navy Yard, 1 October 1814
USS Franklin was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, August 1815
USS Columbus was launched at the Washington Navy Yard, 1 March 1819
USS Ohio was launched at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, 30 May 1820
USS North Carolina was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, 7 September 1820
USS Delaware was launched at the Norfolk Navy Yard, 21 October 1820
USS Pennsylvania was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, 18 July 1837
USS Vermont was launched from the Boston (Charlestown) Navy Yard, 15 September 1848
 
- On 20 November 1776, the Continental Congress authorized the construction of three 74-gun ships of the line. 
- An Act, 2 January 1813 – for the construction of the U.S. Navy’s first Ships-of-the-line
-"nine ships to rate not less than 74 guns each" authorized by Congress on 29 April 1816

Glen, your build caught my eye because I have the USS Franklin on my long list of 'too be built' models.  I've always had a hard time keeping straight which ships were launched and where, because 18 of the authorized American ships-of-the-line were not launched due to being: cancelled, abandoned, altered, burnt, or not even built.  So, I made a list.  I hope it's of some esoteric interest.  Cheers!
 
US Ships-of-the line by launch date
 
USS America was launched at Rising Castle Island (Kittery ME), 5 November 1782 (given to France)
USS Independence was launched from the Boston (Charlestown) Navy Yard, 22 June 1814
USS Washington was launched at the Portsmouth Navy Yard, 1 October 1814
USS Franklin was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, August 1815
USS Columbus was launched at the Washington Navy Yard, 1 March 1819
USS Ohio was launched at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, 30 May 1820
USS North Carolina was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, 7 September 1820
USS Delaware was launched at the Norfolk Navy Yard, 21 October 1820
USS Pennsylvania was launched at the Philadelphia Navy Yard, 18 July 1837
USS Vermont was launched from the Boston (Charlestown) Navy Yard, 15 September 1848
 
- On 20 November 1776, the Continental Congress authorized the construction of three 74-gun ships of the line. 
- An Act, 2 January 1813 – for the construction of the U.S. Navy’s first Ships-of-the-line
-"nine ships to rate not less than 74 guns each" authorized by Congress on 29 April 1816

Absolutely an incredible project. I too have a big interest in tools and tooling.  Your tooling and jigs are fantastic. 
 
Tony

Fini!  I'll post more photos in the completed project gallery😃

I finalized most of the internal electronics and mechanics, and epoxied on the deck. I used a two part marine epoxy to attach the deck to the ribs, and then a waterproof epoxy putty to fill in the gaps between the deck the and hull.
 
The first three hollow areas, which will be inaccessible once the deck is attached, I filled with expanding foam spray used to insulate windows, to help further guard against any water seepage.
 
My planking of the hull wasn't the best, and some of my boards were a little warped and uneven, even after heavy sanding, so I had to fill in some sections with bondo and wood filler. I wasn't able to get the planking to completely meet the transom either, so I ended up using a lot of bondo to fill in the gaps.
 
All the 3D printed parts were made with carbon fiber PLA. If I could do it again, I would have used ASA instead. PLA is easy to print and work with, but it gets very soft with even light heat. For example, putting a model in your car on a warm summer day will warp a lot of parts, which would make transporting this a bit difficult. ASA is a lot more robust and has better heat tolerance.

Complete the yawl boat
 
 
Sometimes we have to say enough and stop working on something. Today that was the yawl boat.
 
23 I went back to my friends at Bluejacket and bought a bunch of stuff.  Most was to build up supplies for the Aphrodite ship, but I got a few of their smallest propellers.  Here I have ground it down to fit on the yawl boat.
24 here is the stopping point.  I need to transport the schooner to a few sites this summer and there is no way to keep the yawl boat in place.   Moving the schooner, the other day I broke off the strong backs.    Yesterday I needed to remove a davit and broke it. Today I started rigging the blocks but if I do, I cannot remove the yawl boat. You can see the block engine cover and boxed shaft cover. I made up yokes and the little copper wire to hook the blocks to.  
25 here we see where the davit lines and hull lashing will eventually be made off the taft rail pins. 
26 here  it seems obvious that the block and tackle make a difference, so I will rig them and have them at least in place.  Lashing will wait till we are back home.
27  here we have the overview of the after deck and I feel this is better to have than the silly block and fake canvas i used last year. 
28 I end with the view showing her sail away. It reminds me that I don’t have the name on the transom yet.    We never really finish do we
 
Cheers

And if you'd like to see how radio controlled tall ship models do it...