shiloh

Aboard the Helena CA 75 there was a water tank in each Gun Room of the 8" turrets that would hold the normal 2 bag charge. No tanks in the Magazine or the Upper and Lower Powder handling Rooms. We were using modern Smokeless Powder as a Propelling Charge, there was a Black Powder ignition charge in a packet attached to the rear of the Powder Bag, which was always on the up side when placing the powder bags into any of the Hoists or Scuttles. The Black Powder was one important reason for the water tanks in the Gun Rooms, Smokeless powder is fairly stable and the grains were large enough to quickly clean up in the event of a broken powder bag, If something happened in the gun room that might spark the Black Powder, it went in the tank so the gun room was safe from a self inflicted explosion. Also the powder handling devices were made of aluminum or brass at all points of contact except the chamber of the gun. All the BS because I would expect to see a water tub in the Outer Powder Handling Room for safety reasons, perhaps also in the Magazine, could not see any in the illustration. Might also be water tubs, on deck near the shown powder passing Deck Ports. jud

Rope stretches when tension is applied. The rate of stretch slows over time but it will continue to stretch until it fails. Not much tension put into a model while being rigged so any stretch caused by rigging may remain undetectable for years, if the building environment remains constant over the model's lifetime. Wetting and hanging with a small weight won't hurt a natural fiber rope, nor will hanging under tension, harm a synthetic or composition rope. Some rope may not display stretch quickly, it was mentioned a water-glue mix being applied to the rigged composition line with good results. Pre-stretching will do no harm unless overdone, might be good insurance. jud

Need to get a copy, I rode Helena number 3, CA 75, a Heavy Cruiser and helped put her out of commission at San Diego in 1963. Broke my heart when I found out she had been sold for scrap. The string of Helena's, 1, USS Helena PG 9 'Gun Boat', 2, CL 50 'Light Cruiser', 3, CA 75 'Heavy Cruiser' and 4, SSN 725 'Submarine'. jud

not talking about hardining the bits only tempering. Tempering colors Pieces of through-tempered steel flatbar. The first one, on the left, is normalized steel. The second is quenched, untempered martensite. The remaining pieces have been tempered in an oven to their corresponding temperature, for an hour each. "Tempering standards" like these are sometimes used by blacksmiths for comparison, ensuring that the work is tempered to the proper color. If steel has been freshly ground, sanded, or polished, it will form an oxide layer on its surface when heated. As the temperature of the steel is increased, the thickness of the iron oxide will also increase. Although iron oxide is not normally transparent, such thin layers do allow light to pass through, reflecting off both the upper and lower surfaces of the layer. This causes a phenomenon called thin-film interference, which produces colors on the surface. As the thickness of this layer increases with temperature, it causes the colors to change from a very light yellow, to brown, then purple, then blue. These colors appear at very precise temperatures, and provide the blacksmith with a very accurate gauge for measuring the temperature. The various colors, their corresponding temperatures, and some of their uses are: Faint-yellow – 176 °C (349 °F) – engravers, razors, scrapers Light-straw – 205 °C (401 °F) – rock drills, reamers, metal-cutting saws Dark-straw – 226 °C (439 °F) – scribers, planer blades Brown – 260 °C (500 °F) – taps, dies, drill bits, hammers, cold chisels Purple – 282 °C (540 °F) – surgical tools, punches, stone carving tools Dark blue – 310 °C (590 °F) – screwdrivers, wrenches Light blue – 337 °C (639 °F) – springs, wood-cutting saws Grey-blue – 371 °C (700 °F) and higher – structural steel Beyond the grey-blue color, the iron oxide loses its transparency, and the temperature can no longer be judged in this way. The layer will also increase in thickness as time passes, which is another reason overheating and immediate cooling is used. Steel in a tempering oven, held at 205 °C (401 °F) for a long time, will begin to turn brown, purple or blue, even though the temperature did not exceed that needed to produce a light-straw color. Oxidizing or carburizing heat sources may also affect the final result. The iron oxide layer, unlike rust, also protects the steel from corrosion through passivation.[12] jud

While talking to a machinist several years ago, he mentioned that the Chinese tools seemed to be to hard, especially drill bits. He still uses them, but the new ones go into the kitchen oven at about 400° for 3 or 4 hours, apparently that tempers the bits so they don't break and they stay hard enough to cut. I need to check the temperature and time for tempering of tool steel. Check my numbers before using them. jud

Don't think they are discussing the guidance of a router bit, it is stationary. Moving the stock past the stationary blade, be it a saw blade or router bit, requires a different approach than trimming your Formica. jud

Thanks, enjoyed the turret tour. jud

A simple method, the only trick is to have the swing points high enough so the angles stay below 30° or so, get above that and the forces go way up quick. Have used a similar method to pull the rear end out of a 10 yard dump truck without help. Raised the dump box and blocked it, then hung two come-a-longs, first one lifted until the gearing was clear, then the other was used to swing it over like the sketch shows with the boat, went back and forth tightening one until the forces went way up on that side and then let the other out to complete the swing. Re rigged the rear come-a-long outboard to get gear cage over and down to the pickup, where I could slide it.. Slow but got the job done without help. For a while I was doing a lot of hopping around, would have put Bugs to shame. jud

How about a plank sub deck, course sanded and sealed with a flexable sealer. Then deck over using wood planks. That would simplify working with the two curves and provide additional stringth for Standing and Running Rigging anchor points. Another benefit is that would get yout elbow limbered up, from the sanding. After reading your last post, it might allow for the use of screws in the subdeck for clamping, removed and sealed well befor being covered. jud

Looks good, now all you need is a dividing plate or two for that rotory table. Probably already have that planned. jud

Kind of intresting where that old flat paper plotting is evolving into. Used to watch them run at Trade Shows, then, here came the drum plotters, steps in diagonal lines and all. Think that flat technology has been used to guide torches used to cut steel, probably is what controls the laser cutters of today. Wait and see what comes down the pike, right now the manufactures are pushing comerical use. They will reach a point when they see that they can have a larger market by making a home shop edition, that is when the price will come down and the product quality will be high. jud

Acetone is good for cleaning crud but in a confined space will kill you. We lost an electrician when he was behind a fan motor in a corner. Legs were sticking out but wasn’t found till to late. Believe the fumes like gasoline fumes collect on the floor. USS Helena CA 75 1962. jud

Have read that trunions set below the C/L of the bore were found to be very hard on the carrage and was not standard practice for long. Trunnions at C/L would allow the forces to start the carrage movement without the downward thrust of the breach and lifting force at the trunion.that trunions below C/L would cause. Believe that Carronades with trunions were called Cannonades. jud

Could live with steading and swing lines not used as lift lines just fine. Thanks popeye2sea. jud

Mark, They are in similar positions and also in similar configurations to other rudders shown. I give the seamen of the day enough credit and enough knowledge to be able to rig an un-shipped rudder without needing to bore holes in it. I am just guessing about what those holes were used for, apparently they were not unique to the Constitution. I have yet seen any practical reason for them to be there, handling wise, nor is there any use marks that copper and a lead inside lining would display. It looks like the holes were not in place when the rudder was coopered or the hole would have looked like it was done professionally, it would not be the messy work shown. The way it was repaired using lead, makes me wonder if there was the thought of using those holes for another look someday. Like I said, at this point I would not wager much on my opinion being the correct one. Hope some historical evidence is found explaining the holes, there not for little fishy's to hide in. Jud

Worked for a Civil Engineer who was asked to do a structural evaluation on a very old steel and concrete hotel. Wasn’t part of that crew, I was busy surveying but I was privy to the fallout. To ealuate the condition of the structure and its soundness, the beams, columns, rivets all needed to be exposed, this was done randomly and left areas that needed repair, which the owners didn't like. Although they didn't like it, they did pay for the report. Anyway, as I suggested, perhaps those holes were part of an inspection of the condition for the hidden, but prone to rot rudder interior wood. If so, like the access to the supporting structure of that building it would not be shown in plans or building records, might be found in the records of a Ship Surveyor or part of a report of a hull inspection. Like I said, suspect those are inspection holes, sealed by lead lining, tared felt with existing copper reattached. Hope this mystery is solved, one or none of our guesses might be right, sure wouldn't bet much of value that my guess is better than others other than I question that lifting or control of the rudder, ashore or afloat adds up, because of sizing and lack of markings remaining from such use. jud

They also make a swivel knife that looks much like this one. Smaller blade and swivels, looks good to me but I use swivel knives with my leather tooling. The Fiscar swivel knife probably won't work well with tooling leather but it should make some nice sprial cuts in wood. Can see a place in carving and detailing with that knife. Google 'Fiscar Swivel Knife' and take a look. Price is low enough to justify occaisional use. jud

Those holes are too undersized to lift from, don't believe there were many grade 8 bolts in those days, even if there were, there would be danger of pulling through if the rudder was tilted during lifting. There is no visable evidence of any plates having ever been secured to the rudder using those holes, so the lifting sorces could be spread out. I suspect those holes are nothing more than what remains of the attempt to repair holes cut for core samples. Samples needed to deturming the condition of the rudder itself during a rebuild. Must have been found sound, so not replaced at the time of drilling but the poor patch probably has allowed the rudder to reach to point of needing replacement today. Maybe part of the Keel Hauling Rig? jud

Like the idea, if you could include the spar deck beams under that plastic, it would add to the effect you are attempting to obtain. The plastic over the spar deck beams could be used to support partial sections of the deck beams. Start them all, but cut most back at random intervels leaving only a few full width. Can you soften the lighting in the forward area? Sorry if I sound critical, not my intent, I think you are doing a fanstac job. The intent of my coments is intended to be constructive only. You have demonstraited that my sugestions are well within your abilities, should you find them worthy of consideration. jud

If the forces acting on both iron and brass cannons are the same, why would you need different rigging to control those forces. Different carrage types would require rigging adjustments as would changes is size of the piece. Iron or Brass, the rigging doesn't notice. Mark has provided a good source for you to follow up. jud

He has a good start, 'even has left a handle to hang on to'. Like every other carver, all he needs to do now, is remove everything that doesn't look like a ladder. jud

Suspect that you will get it all together and be content with what you have done. This model will be one talked about and used as a reference for a long time, along with this build log. Second guessing and hindsight will happen as new data sources are discovered, but applying common sense and keeping in mind the room needed to operate the various fittings, as you have done, will keep conflicts with future data discovery at a minimum. jud

( and the movement of the table in relation to the stationary hinge pin.) Yes, it looks like the mounting bolts can take over the clearance adjustment. Nothing lost if that is how you have been adjusting clearance all along. jud

Now your table edge will run in an arc with the new pin lock as the radius point and preventing the pins from sliding in the slot. Those slots were what allowed the table to use the thumb nuts as pivot points. Using the thumb nut bolts to pivot and the slots allowing movement is you keep the table edge close to the wheel when adjusting larger angles. The guard modification should do as intended and looks like a good Idea. jud

Not proof but an opinion. Bells, except for an emergency such as fire are used to manage the watches, 8 bells for an 4 hour Watch and 8 bells also covers 2 Dog Watches. It is word of mouth, a pipe or bugle that directs the crew. The early ships probably had not set up a watch system and didn't need a way to manage them. Short cruises being the norm, probably all hands were on duty at all times, managing what they were doing was important, not keeping time with a bell and half hour glass. High frequency bells used aboard ships make poor fog warnings, horns or drums carry better because of their low frequency. Suspect bells came into use when long periods at sea requiring part of the crew to rest and that made 4 hour Watches the norm. jud