tkay11

I second Wayne's comment about nodes. At first I was tempted to use too many as it is so easy just to follow the path and click. But the trick of a smooth outline is to use as few as is possible -- two if possible (one at either end). As for being the first person to make a simpler hull in TC, I've already done that. The only trouble is that it's not quite watertight as it has no planks. Still, Wayne's right -- you only get there by sticking at it. Tony

There is a lot of videos on YouTube for TurboCAD. The ones by Paul Tracey gave me the initial kick-start for the 3D side. His list of free training videos can be found if you click here. They are very easy to follow and they certainly eased the learning curve. In terms of the manual, I agree the web links can be confusing. The pdf version is a little easier to navigate. You can choose to read the pdf version if you go to 'General' in the 'Options' tab and choose 'Use offline help' in the menu. I've also just downloaded the free version of SketchUp. This is a very much simpler programme to get the hang of, more intuitive and has a much cleaner and nicer interface. Although SketchUp clearly does not have quite the range of TurboCAD, you'll see from the modelling done on the site with SketchUp is quite fantastic. The only limitation I have found so far in experimenting with SketchUp is that you can't load pdf files into it. You'd have to convert pdf to jpeg for importing (unless someone more knowledgeable tells us otherwise). So my advice would be that if you feel TurbCAD is too much, switch to SketchUp for an easier ride which may well give the same results. As for me, I'm still undecided -- having invested so much time in learning TurboCAD! Looking forward to anything you produce in any programme, Tony

Wayne, that's still pretty cool. I reckon I can approximate this with a series of 3D polygons, which I guess are prisms. Anyway, I'll have a bash. Your suggestions and your pictures have given me much encouragement -- I especially like the boat as that gives me an idea of what I should be aiming for. I'll have fewer seats and no cannon on mine, though! Thanks very much Tony

Thanks, Jingyang. I can render and shade surfaces of enclosed spaces. What I'm stuck on is how to get the 'assisting curves' stage you show in your first picture. Attached is where I am so far. I can then make the keel, stem and stern with no problem. Oh, and I've just noticed from my own picture that I've put the stern section at the wrong station line. Still, you'll get the idea! I can't quite figure out how to mould the sides of the sheer plan to the central line of cross sections. I reckon it must have something to do with tracing the waterlines from the half breadth plan as those are the lines that I can see on your first picture but I still haven't attempted that. However, now I've seen your pictures I'll have a bash later today. Also I don't understand what the top curved line over the boat on the body sections represents in the plans since it is an open boat. Thanks also 'capnharv2'. Yes, I've studied Kemp's article but it presumes you're using the CAD to generate plans from which to make a wooden model. It doesn't go into the 3D creation. I'm using TurboCAD Pro 18 which I got by chance for almost nothing from a friend who gave up on it. As you can see it has the rendering facilities, but I thought all versions of TurboCAD had them as well. Thanks again for so much help so quickly! Tony

I have been so impressed by the wonderful quality of the CAD builds on this site that I have been trying to teach myself how to convert the 2D plans to 3D in TurboCAD. I've been doing this by using the 2D plans of the longboat on the Cutter Alert based on the Anatomy of the Ship book. I had been using the 2D plans to make the longboat in wood, and that is taking its own course. However, I am stuck in the CAD programming when trying to figure out how to obtain the 3D hull shape from the verticalised sheer plans. So far I have been able to flip the sides and move them together with the horizontal waterlines and body plan to obtain a box, but I can't quite fathom how to form the hull from this point. The instructions for using CAD on this site refer to 2D lofting (as far as I can see), so if anyone can point me in the direction of instructions on how to move to the next step of 3D creation from plans I'd be very grateful. The essential reason for my interest is (1) to be able to continue to do some form of ship building in a practical way while I am travelling (something which I have to do for a very large proportion of my time) and (2) to visualise plans in a new way. Any pointers most welcome for this two-fold 3D novice! Tony

It's wonderful that we're having so many great CAD builds on this site. The meticulous precision and attention to detail throughout are just as awe-inspiring as some of the physical builds. Brilliant work, Jingyang, and thanks so much for taking the time to show us the build. Tony

Just to add to the chorus of praise, I'm delighted you're doing this log in such a detailed way. It really shows how much cross-fertilisation there is between the types of build, and that there are in fact so many different ways to build a ship. I'll be following this one right through to the end. Great stuff! Tony

If you look closely at my pic, Sarah, you'll see the smile is accompanied by the knowing wink of recognition of enjoyment and its source. But maybe the resolution is not good enough --- you'll just have to take my word for it. Tony

What fun, Sarah! This one really brought a smile. I much look forward to the rest. We'll have to keep a watch on Sjors' translations though - he might have the temptation to slip in a joke or two! Tony

I've used Liberon wax filler sticks used in furniture repair. It's really easy to apply and wipe off. These wax fillers come in a lot of shades so it's easy to achieve the right level of difference from the wood of the planks, and provides a subtle effect. I had this tip from Daniel when he was on MSW 1.0 but I've seen a few others do this as well. I did try melting it into the holes but it turned out to be just as easy to scrape a few fragments off and wipe them into the holes. Tony

It used to be owned and given free by Google. It was then sold to Trimble who have a two-tier system. There is a free version and a version you have to pay for which has more features. You can find it by searching for 'SketchUp'. Wikipedia has an entry for the programme. If you want a direct link to the download site, click here. I believe most CAD programmes will do the same. Tony

Of course you are right, Carl. There will be a market for printed books for a long time. I myself like reading from a printed page last thing at night in bed. However I am trying to make the case that the market for ship modelling books also needs to include the need for stuff that can be seen on screen and only the relevant pages printed if needed. Part of that is the need for lower cost material, but to my mind there are also other factors. You correctly point to the fact that it is something habitual to read a book. However people are now coming into ship modelling whose main experience has been use of computers, video games and screen-base phones. A very interesting example of this is the complete build of the Cutter Alert only with SketchUp (a CAD-type programme). If you go to the CAD forum you'll see the skills of 'SketchUpModeller' whose only build is in SketchUp. WIth this new, exciting and highly skilled generation (and SketchUpModeller has expressed an interest at some time in the future in wooden modelling) it surely would make sense to have low cost screen-based materials to use. Apart from that, I am very happy to read material onscreen even if only for short periods. As I said, I can then print off what I need for constant reference. I certainly wouldn't take away from the sheer pleasure of a beautifully printed book. The question is how much that is of generational and cultural conditioning? I don't know the answer to that. Tony

We still haven't had a reply about the possibility of pdf versions of books (or even e-books) whether or not they are published in Europe or America. The world is changing in the way we use books. A huge amount of my reading, research and study (even for my mainline job and for medical research) is online now. I don't think we'll get over high costs of shipping of heavy books (in fact I'll be waiting for an American friend or colleague to bring me books I may want from the USA). Printed medical textbooks are now in decline, but of course there is still a large market for them in countries with low internet access. I should imagine a high proportion of people involved in ship modelling are in countries where internet access is very high. More important is whether or not people who publish books about model ship building can focus now on a more economic format online. The quality of the pictures would in fact be better on line than in a printed book (screens have a higher dynamic and colour range than is possible with printing). This site has itself shown the redundancy of a lot of printed books. The books I am really interested in in relation to ship modelling are the 'how to' books. Not expensive paperweights that will essentially remain on the shelf once looked at. The SeaWatch books fall into the category of 'how to' books. Why they should not be in a cheaper online format defeats me. The costs of publishing would be lower, the number of people who purchase potentially greater, the profit margins left substantially the same or even greater since there are never any publishing re-runs to fund. I do understand I may be naive about the costs of online publishing, but then the point of my post is to understand why it may be difficult to switch to this form of publishing. Tony

It's certainly not out of print. I just bought a copy from Ancre which was delivered in very quick time. Note: no shipping charges in the EU. However, having studied it, I would think it is more valuable to the advanced modeller who already has some experience in using the techniques and tools portrayed since these are very much in shorthand in the book. In terms of practical suggestions on individual steps in the process of building a model at my stage of the game, I think my main sources, in order, have been (1) this site with its enormous reservoir of help and demonstration from people who are both generous and selfless, (2) 'Historic Ship Models' by zu Mondfeld, (3) Underhill's two volumes on Plank on Frame models (definitely only second-hand now). The other books I have found useful at my stage of learning have been the Anatomy of the Ship series on the Cutter 'Alert', and George Bandurek's book on Super-Detailing the Cutter Sherbourne (which used to be a log on this site). I also wasted money on about three other books which gave almost no detail or instruction and were pretty much just pretty pictures -- or the level of instruction was so basic as to make me sigh with frustration. All the same, I am happy I bought Frolich's book and I do use some of the suggestions he makes already (e.g. the building of a ship's boat -- although I am supplementing that with much better detail from this site). But the fact is that when I want to look at some of the detail of each step of the construction I have found the resources on this site by far the most valuable. Please bear in mind these comments are only those made by a novice builder. It may well be that I come to appreciate the value of Frolich's book much more as I progress. Also others will have their own priority list of resources -- especially as they may be coming to the subject with a great deal more practical experience than I have. If you can get a second-hand copy of Frolich and are at the same stage of the game as I am, then it truly is worth having -- if only to gawk at the amazing workmanship he displays. On the other hand, I can say I am equally stupefied by some of the builds I have seen on this and other fora for free. To my mind, achieving such craftmanship is not only finding others to show you some of the tricks (which you can do almost entirely using the posts and resources of this forum), it is also the sheer painful slog of trying it all out for yourself. That is what I am finding, and equally enjoying. I suppose my bottom line is that if you are hard-pressed for cash, then think carefully and try and see a copy before buying books. They are very expensive! Tony

That was a real pleasure, Ray, to see the complete build. A lot of useful pointers for my Sherbourne which is a very similar ship. A beautiful model. I'm looking forward to the Diana. Tony

Just adding to the chorus. I'm delighted you could re-post as yours is a build I was following avidly. Tony

Thanks a lot for re-posting this, Jamie. I've just been dabbling in building my ship's boat, and as that meant doing a solid hull I've been interested in any solid hull work. Your work is really beautiful. I look forward to the rest and the tutorials as they come in. Tony

Hello Kester! I was wondering if you're going to post pictures of your Sherbourne. You've been so helpful on a lot of builds, I definitely would like to see yours. I think you used to have the title 'Sherbourne - So far so good'. But of course that link has gone with MSW 1.0. Tony

I am in total agreement with Klaus. There are bookshops in the UK that would handle this )for example, the Model Dockyard, or Pen & Sword). I am fairly sure model shops such as Cornwall Model Boats would also sell them. I would have bought books from Seawatch, but have been put off by the huge expense of the posting. Tony

It's wonderful that you have decided to re-post your log, Alexandru. I am just trying to build a ship's boat and I'd taken quite a few tips from your own build -- apart from the fact that your whole build is magnificent and inspiring. Thank you Tony

It's great that you decided to repost, Sumner. I was missing that log. It's been such a great help with my own build. Looking forward to the rest. At the moment I'm trying to build a ship's boat for it -- which has been another fun learning experience. Oh, I forgot to add. I saw after I posted this message that you've got much better tags than I. Very good idea to have the different spellings of Sherborn in light of the different names for the plans. Tony

It seems to have taken him from Dec 27 2010 to Feb 25 2011. I find it just as amazing that he can do it in such a short space of time. Tony

Thanks, Jay and Garward. Very helpful! Tony

Thanks a lot, Garward, for the tips. I've been thinking about how to use the Proxxon cutting discs to make such pieces, but the fact is I don't have a lathe and I can see how useful it is. Is your lathe one of the Chinese made ones? If so, which one, and have you been happy with it? I might buy one next year when I can afford it! Tony

That's an excellent explanation, Dave. Thanks very much for taking the time to enlighten me! It also explains why, when I searched Google for rope servers, the answers seemed to be entirely for archery. Tony