michaelpsutton2

Last night I found a 1794 copy of Steel on the Historic Naval Ships Association websitehttp://hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm%C2'> . It said:
 
PROPORTIONAL LENGTHS OF YARDS, IN THE ROYAL NAVY.
Main-yard, 8/9 of the main-mast.
Fore-yard, 7/8 of the main-yard.
Mizen-yard, 6/7 of the main-yard.
Main-topsail-yard, 5/7 of the main-yard.
Fore-topsail-yard, 7/8 of the main-topsail-yard.
Mizen-topsail-yard, 2/3 the main-topsail-yard.
Topgallant-yards to 74 gun ships, 2/3 all under, 3/5, of their topsail-yards. Royal-yards, 1/2 of the topsail-yards.
Cross-jack-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-topsail-yard, the same as the fore-top-gallant-yard.
Studdingsail-yards, 4/7 of their booms.
Driver-yard, the same as the fore-topgallant-yard
 
 
This is different than my copy! And certainly different than Lee.  It works much better.
 
And lastly in the section on rigs and sail plans in Sloop of War, the author comments that it is almost impossible to determine with any certainty what the rig of a small vessel may have been. He says the brigs, sloops, snows and brigantines were re-rigged and re-rigged. Further he comments that although many 18th century small craft are recorded as brigantines, not a single set of spar lengths for a brigantine have come to light. It is only in the 19th century that there is documentary evidence for this rig.

Last night I found a 1794 copy of Steel on the Historic Naval Ships Association websitehttp://hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm%C2'> . It said:
 
PROPORTIONAL LENGTHS OF YARDS, IN THE ROYAL NAVY.
Main-yard, 8/9 of the main-mast.
Fore-yard, 7/8 of the main-yard.
Mizen-yard, 6/7 of the main-yard.
Main-topsail-yard, 5/7 of the main-yard.
Fore-topsail-yard, 7/8 of the main-topsail-yard.
Mizen-topsail-yard, 2/3 the main-topsail-yard.
Topgallant-yards to 74 gun ships, 2/3 all under, 3/5, of their topsail-yards. Royal-yards, 1/2 of the topsail-yards.
Cross-jack-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-topsail-yard, the same as the fore-top-gallant-yard.
Studdingsail-yards, 4/7 of their booms.
Driver-yard, the same as the fore-topgallant-yard
 
 
This is different than my copy! And certainly different than Lee.  It works much better.
 
And lastly in the section on rigs and sail plans in Sloop of War, the author comments that it is almost impossible to determine with any certainty what the rig of a small vessel may have been. He says the brigs, sloops, snows and brigantines were re-rigged and re-rigged. Further he comments that although many 18th century small craft are recorded as brigantines, not a single set of spar lengths for a brigantine have come to light. It is only in the 19th century that there is documentary evidence for this rig.

Last night I found a 1794 copy of Steel on the Historic Naval Ships Association websitehttp://hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm%C2'> . It said:
 
PROPORTIONAL LENGTHS OF YARDS, IN THE ROYAL NAVY.
Main-yard, 8/9 of the main-mast.
Fore-yard, 7/8 of the main-yard.
Mizen-yard, 6/7 of the main-yard.
Main-topsail-yard, 5/7 of the main-yard.
Fore-topsail-yard, 7/8 of the main-topsail-yard.
Mizen-topsail-yard, 2/3 the main-topsail-yard.
Topgallant-yards to 74 gun ships, 2/3 all under, 3/5, of their topsail-yards. Royal-yards, 1/2 of the topsail-yards.
Cross-jack-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-yard, the same as the fore-topsail-yard.
Spritsail-topsail-yard, the same as the fore-top-gallant-yard.
Studdingsail-yards, 4/7 of their booms.
Driver-yard, the same as the fore-topgallant-yard
 
 
This is different than my copy! And certainly different than Lee.  It works much better.
 
And lastly in the section on rigs and sail plans in Sloop of War, the author comments that it is almost impossible to determine with any certainty what the rig of a small vessel may have been. He says the brigs, sloops, snows and brigantines were re-rigged and re-rigged. Further he comments that although many 18th century small craft are recorded as brigantines, not a single set of spar lengths for a brigantine have come to light. It is only in the 19th century that there is documentary evidence for this rig.

I agree that in there were differences between the theory of masting and what you would find if you could visit the harbor. But what I am seeing is that while most of the masts and other yards seemed to follow the rules in most cases, the topgallant yard lengths listed for specific ship never and i mean never followed the rule.
 
The sail plan I am attempting to reconstruct would be for the Port Antonio purchased into the Royal navy about 1757. She was two masted. The placement of the masts is not suitable for a ketch, and the arrangement of the lower dead-eyes indicates she was a brig or snow and not a schooner of some kind. Given the date I think a snow more likely. I have incuded a paining by Clevely from 1759 of a what appears to be a similar vessel. Just add a handful of gunports in the waist and some sweep ports as well. She was 67'9" on the deck 22' beam, 9'9" deep and 144 tons. L+B+D =99'6" divided by 2 gives a main mast length of 50' which matches nicely with Steel and the other examples given the "Sloop of War". Lee's book does not have much to say about two masted ships.
 
The main yard is .9 times the mainmast 45' and we are still good. The topsail yard is about .72 of the main yard or about 32'5". This figure is supported by all of the tables, If the top-gallant should be 1/2 the topsail then we would use 16' or a couple of inches more. But look at the figures in Steels examples. His brig has a main yard of 42', close, a topsail yard of 31'6", still very close... and a top-gallant of 23'6"  which is a full 34% bigger than his own guidelines would indicate.

When I got the used one it looked new

You are trying to capture a moment in a constantly changing process and not an event.

Just got my copy from Amazon.
 
Large format 10.5" BY 10.5" 
340 pages
Lots of big really clear pic's some in full color
A number of original draughts .I like the fact that the author has not gone the route of using redrawn plans.
 
I ordered a "used like new" copy and it was less than $30 including shipping. Dirt cheap compared to the price of some books.
 
This book covers all of the English royal yachts from the Stuarts through today. It's well organized and clearly written. The volume makes it possible for me to untangle the 19 different yachts named "Mary" .
 
And best of all (one of my pet peeves) they have arranged the pages so that the pictures and the plans don't attempt to straddle the gutter in the center of the pages. You can actually see the whole thing.
 
The pictures and the plans are so well done that it made me want to sit down and start work on a yacht right now
 
This one is a keeper and I highly recommend it.

Just got my copy from Amazon.
 
Large format 10.5" BY 10.5" 
340 pages
Lots of big really clear pic's some in full color
A number of original draughts .I like the fact that the author has not gone the route of using redrawn plans.
 
I ordered a "used like new" copy and it was less than $30 including shipping. Dirt cheap compared to the price of some books.
 
This book covers all of the English royal yachts from the Stuarts through today. It's well organized and clearly written. The volume makes it possible for me to untangle the 19 different yachts named "Mary" .
 
And best of all (one of my pet peeves) they have arranged the pages so that the pictures and the plans don't attempt to straddle the gutter in the center of the pages. You can actually see the whole thing.
 
The pictures and the plans are so well done that it made me want to sit down and start work on a yacht right now
 
This one is a keeper and I highly recommend it.

I know a lot of the books we use are damned expensive but how else are the publishers going to support the production of future volumes. You know the next volume of "Sloop of War" isn't going to make the New York Times best seller list. If we don't support the Conway Maritime, Seaforth, Naval Institue Press. Nautical Research Guild and their kind then the research that we depend on will dry up and die.

I know a lot of the books we use are damned expensive but how else are the publishers going to support the production of future volumes. You know the next volume of "Sloop of War" isn't going to make the New York Times best seller list. If we don't support the Conway Maritime, Seaforth, Naval Institue Press. Nautical Research Guild and their kind then the research that we depend on will dry up and die.

If it's copyrighted (and this one is), don't even think about posting the drawings here for others.  That's piracy which we don't tolerate.

Great Yankee super-ships, to be sure, but they were not unique. Let's give credit where it is due ...
 
The 24-pounder French Sister-frigates La Forte and L'Egyptienne predated Humphries frigates by about a half dozen years. They were of the same dimensions, force (thirty 24-pounders on the main deck) and design (flush decked, about 170 feet on the gundeck) and they were not only very successful, but Forte in particular, gained world fame for commerce raiding in the Indian Ocean, and for defeating a British 74. The Forte's successes and characteristics would have been known to H. when he was drawing up his own first draughts. NMM has L'Egyptienne's draughts, btw.
 
Then there was the slightly smaller, but equally successful  24-pounder Frigates La Resistance and La Vengeance, built circa 1794, each also mounting thirty long 24-pounders ...
 
Humphries was known to have been under a "French Influence" when he designed the big yankee 44's, but most writers have assumed that this was limited to the Continental Frigate South Caroline, ex L'Indienne (spelling?), seen by him in Philadelphia during the war, which was built to French designs in Holland. But Forte was much closer to Constitution, et al, in all respects than the South Carolina was.

The ironic thing is that nothing that Joshua Humphries designed into the ships was very unique.  All of the concepts he used were found in other ships.  The beauty of his design was combining them into one ship.  He was very forward thinking.  He knew that the country could never afford to build enough ships to go toe to toe with any European navy.

Greetings,
 
Disclaimer: I am not an authority, and my opinion is based on books written by others.
 
The Constitution and her sister ships seem to represent the epitome of frigate design for that era - late 18th century into the 19th century. These so called heavy frigates blended speed, fire power, strength, and seaworthyness into a very potent fighting platform. I expect they could punch well above their weight class. Further, the Constitution probably would have been a match for ships even above her rating if handled well. I expect her speed would have given her an advantage over plodding 74s, and maybe some first rates, even with a deficit in metal through weight.
 
wq3296  

I still have a great fondness for the works of Basil Lubbock: The Last of the Windjammers, The Colonial Clippers, The Tea Clippers, The Downeasters, The Western Ocean Packets, The Nitrate Clippers.
 
Harold Underhill: Deepwater Sail,, Sail Training Ships, Masting & Rigging the Ocean Carrier.
 
H I Chapelle, D R McGregor, Basil Greenhill, David Lyon, Brian Lavery, Rif Winfield, Robert Gardiner
 
But far and away I still remember a day over 40 years ago. It was about midnight on a Tuesday and the the library was almost deserted. I was looking for a book on Revolutionary War Naval History for a college course and I came across a crumbling copy of the illustrated catalog for the Henry H Rodgers collection of models at Annapolis. I didn't know models like this existed.  I sat on the floor of the aisle deep in the stacks of the Howard Tilton Librabry of Tulane University slowly going from one model to the next. In 15 minutes I developed a fixation that continues to this very day.
 
I own a copy now and take it off the shelf when the work is not going the way I know that it should. I tell myself that one day I will learn to do work like that.

I still have a great fondness for the works of Basil Lubbock: The Last of the Windjammers, The Colonial Clippers, The Tea Clippers, The Downeasters, The Western Ocean Packets, The Nitrate Clippers.
 
Harold Underhill: Deepwater Sail,, Sail Training Ships, Masting & Rigging the Ocean Carrier.
 
H I Chapelle, D R McGregor, Basil Greenhill, David Lyon, Brian Lavery, Rif Winfield, Robert Gardiner
 
But far and away I still remember a day over 40 years ago. It was about midnight on a Tuesday and the the library was almost deserted. I was looking for a book on Revolutionary War Naval History for a college course and I came across a crumbling copy of the illustrated catalog for the Henry H Rodgers collection of models at Annapolis. I didn't know models like this existed.  I sat on the floor of the aisle deep in the stacks of the Howard Tilton Librabry of Tulane University slowly going from one model to the next. In 15 minutes I developed a fixation that continues to this very day.
 
I own a copy now and take it off the shelf when the work is not going the way I know that it should. I tell myself that one day I will learn to do work like that.

I still have a great fondness for the works of Basil Lubbock: The Last of the Windjammers, The Colonial Clippers, The Tea Clippers, The Downeasters, The Western Ocean Packets, The Nitrate Clippers.
 
Harold Underhill: Deepwater Sail,, Sail Training Ships, Masting & Rigging the Ocean Carrier.
 
H I Chapelle, D R McGregor, Basil Greenhill, David Lyon, Brian Lavery, Rif Winfield, Robert Gardiner
 
But far and away I still remember a day over 40 years ago. It was about midnight on a Tuesday and the the library was almost deserted. I was looking for a book on Revolutionary War Naval History for a college course and I came across a crumbling copy of the illustrated catalog for the Henry H Rodgers collection of models at Annapolis. I didn't know models like this existed.  I sat on the floor of the aisle deep in the stacks of the Howard Tilton Librabry of Tulane University slowly going from one model to the next. In 15 minutes I developed a fixation that continues to this very day.
 
I own a copy now and take it off the shelf when the work is not going the way I know that it should. I tell myself that one day I will learn to do work like that.

I still have a great fondness for the works of Basil Lubbock: The Last of the Windjammers, The Colonial Clippers, The Tea Clippers, The Downeasters, The Western Ocean Packets, The Nitrate Clippers.
 
Harold Underhill: Deepwater Sail,, Sail Training Ships, Masting & Rigging the Ocean Carrier.
 
H I Chapelle, D R McGregor, Basil Greenhill, David Lyon, Brian Lavery, Rif Winfield, Robert Gardiner
 
But far and away I still remember a day over 40 years ago. It was about midnight on a Tuesday and the the library was almost deserted. I was looking for a book on Revolutionary War Naval History for a college course and I came across a crumbling copy of the illustrated catalog for the Henry H Rodgers collection of models at Annapolis. I didn't know models like this existed.  I sat on the floor of the aisle deep in the stacks of the Howard Tilton Librabry of Tulane University slowly going from one model to the next. In 15 minutes I developed a fixation that continues to this very day.
 
I own a copy now and take it off the shelf when the work is not going the way I know that it should. I tell myself that one day I will learn to do work like that.

I still have a great fondness for the works of Basil Lubbock: The Last of the Windjammers, The Colonial Clippers, The Tea Clippers, The Downeasters, The Western Ocean Packets, The Nitrate Clippers.
 
Harold Underhill: Deepwater Sail,, Sail Training Ships, Masting & Rigging the Ocean Carrier.
 
H I Chapelle, D R McGregor, Basil Greenhill, David Lyon, Brian Lavery, Rif Winfield, Robert Gardiner
 
But far and away I still remember a day over 40 years ago. It was about midnight on a Tuesday and the the library was almost deserted. I was looking for a book on Revolutionary War Naval History for a college course and I came across a crumbling copy of the illustrated catalog for the Henry H Rodgers collection of models at Annapolis. I didn't know models like this existed.  I sat on the floor of the aisle deep in the stacks of the Howard Tilton Librabry of Tulane University slowly going from one model to the next. In 15 minutes I developed a fixation that continues to this very day.
 
I own a copy now and take it off the shelf when the work is not going the way I know that it should. I tell myself that one day I will learn to do work like that.

Captain Blakeley and the Wasp: The Cruise of 1814
 
Stephen W.  H. Duffy
Hardcover: 348 pages including Index, extensive Notes and Bibliography.
Publisher: US Naval Institute Press (2001)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1557501769
 
In celebration of the 200th anniversary of the start of his historic, and ill fated, cruise, it is my honor to present to you a brief review of a narrative of Captain Johnston Blakeley's career in the early American navy, culminating in one of the greatest raiding cruises every undertaken.
 
There are many tales of the accomplishments of America’s young navy during the War of 1812, and several of the most famous names in American Naval History were blazed into the national consciousness during that conflict.  Although the most successful American naval officer of the War of 1812, Johnston Blakely never enjoyed the fame that he had for so long desired.  His fame was posthumous.
 
In Captain Blakeley and the Wasp: The Cruise of 1814, Stephen Duffy tells, in a readable and coherent fashion, the story of Master Commandant Johnston Blakeley and the highly successful cruise of the American sloop of war Wasp in 1814. Duffy draws on archival information from numerous institutions to introduce the reader to the young Blakeley, tracing his youth and formative years through to his early years serving under Thomas Truxton on the President and John Rodgers on the John Adams to his command of the brig Enterprise in 1811. Blakeley’s skills and ambition are rewarded – he is sent to Newburyport, Massachusetts to supervise the construction of the Sloop of War Wasp.
 
Duffy demonstrates his passion for detail and accuracy as he chronicles the building of the Wasp and Blakeley's struggles to outfit and crew his new ship, an effort made more difficult by national politics and by rivalries within the Navy. Designed by Naval Constructor William Doughty as a commerce raider, Wasp was rated at 509 tons and 22 guns with a crew of 173.  Blakeley left port on May 1, 1814, at the helm of the newly commissioned Wasp. 
 
Blakeley captured his first prize on June 2, 1814.  Within the following month, the Wasp captured and burned four more prizes.  Blakeley secured his place in American naval history on June 28, 1814.   Blakeley and his crew chased and brought to battle the Royal Navy’s HMS Reindeer, a Cruizer class brig sloop of 18 guns.  One of the hardest fought battles of the war followed, and when it had concluded, Blakeley’s guns had overpowered and reduced the British vessel to a drifting hulk.  Also damaged, Blakeley sailed to L’Orient, France to offload prisoners and seek repairs.  En route, despite the damage incurred during the battle with the Reindeer, the Wasp still captured two more prizes.
 
The Wasp was back at sea by August 27, and Blakeley set course for Gibraltar.  He continued cruising successfully throughout the fall, even winning a battle over the HMS Avon.  As news of Blakeley’s success filtered back to the United States in October and early November, he became a hero, and Congress promoted him to Captain on November 24.  Meanwhile, the Wasp’s return was long overdue, and rumors swirled concerning the ship’s fate.  The British never made claims to sinking the ship, but the Wasp vanished somewhere on the Atlantic, possibly foundering in a gale.  The last confirmed sighting was by a Swedish crew on the Adonis.  They saw the Wasp on October 9, 1814, some 225 miles southwest of Madeira.
 
Duffy is able to provide a cogent and informative interpretation of the available archival records, and brings Blakeley to life as a tragic hero of his time. Faced with the common constraint imposed on any student of history, Duffy was faced with the paucity of primary source accounts from Blakeley and his close associates, as well as the conflicting accounts in the British and American records.  Duffy was very selective and effective in his use of reasonable speculation about the thoughts of the young officer regarding various situations. Mr. Duffy has succeeded in providing not just a story of a young man who was in the right place with the right ship at the right time, but also presents a well-researched and documented study of a junior officer in the small American navy at the beginning of the 19th Century.
 
 

 

In England at least, some ships were sheathed with an expendable / renewable thin layer of planks. Sometimes "noxious compounds" were put under the planks. It was fairly effective at keeping worms out of the real planking but did nothing to inhibit the growth of weed during long jouneys. Some ships returned from years long trips to the tropics trailing long streamers of seaweed which slowed their speed to a crawl.
 
There were limited experiments with closely spaced big headed nails

Both of books are excellent but do not expect that either one shows the ship exactly as it is today or at Trafalgar. You will need to use multiple sources and even then make a couple of choices. The focsle bulkwarks are one of the most contentious issues. The carvings on the taffrail are another.
 
Not to wax too poetic. But a real wooden ship is a living thing. It changes continously if slowly over time. These national treasures that are preserved for hundreds of years also reflect the vision of thier successive caretakes over the years
 
Good luck and please post picture of the results

In England at least, some ships were sheathed with an expendable / renewable thin layer of planks. Sometimes "noxious compounds" were put under the planks. It was fairly effective at keeping worms out of the real planking but did nothing to inhibit the growth of weed during long jouneys. Some ships returned from years long trips to the tropics trailing long streamers of seaweed which slowed their speed to a crawl.
 
There were limited experiments with closely spaced big headed nails

In England at least, some ships were sheathed with an expendable / renewable thin layer of planks. Sometimes "noxious compounds" were put under the planks. It was fairly effective at keeping worms out of the real planking but did nothing to inhibit the growth of weed during long jouneys. Some ships returned from years long trips to the tropics trailing long streamers of seaweed which slowed their speed to a crawl.
 
There were limited experiments with closely spaced big headed nails

Good morning The armed virginia sloop was of a type generally known as a "Bermuda Sloop" Chapman has an example in his Architectura Navalis Mercatoria. There are any number of other contemporary illustrations form the period. None show any structures on the deck at all. The decks are rather steeply crowned and even the tillers are underneath. Most small ship designs would have been steered from a position with better visibility .
 
I have a small bit of sailing experience, no real blue water" but the design makes me think it was designed to shed water and shield the helmsman if overtaken by a following sea.