Robert Taylor

10 hours ago, bosco72 said:

Yes and no is the answer, there is a jig/tool that is provided that allows you to make templates, but I'm trying to find, decent looking thread, and working glue. Or do I make my own scale thread/ropes and use hitch knotting? Not sure I'm skilled enough to do that at this scale. 

Hi Bosco, 

Regards your glue for rigging I had the same problem a long time ago until I discovered this, I swear by it, it is ideal for rigging and any sort of material, especially where it is very intricate.  I have used it ever since.

Hi Bill, most of these you can get of ebay, some are rarer than others but you can save a search and set and alert to anyone that get listed asap.

As for Scale 

Heller  Soleil Royal 1:100

             Victory 1:100

Heller Royal Louis 1:200

            La Sirene  1:150

Airfix HMS Prince 1:144

           Wasa 1:144

            St Louis 1:144

            Royal Sovereign 1:168

Revell  Spanish Galleon 1:96

I would say Scale Preferability  depends on how much detail you want on your ship. Of course the bigger the kit the easier to a certain extent it is to carry out rigging etc.. 

But alas most of these kits are only available  in these scale sizes unless you want to build wooden ones.

I would say that although there are different scale sizes that most of the Heller and Airfix ones are roughly  the same size but still very workable without being overly difficult, albeit with the amount of architectural features it will test your painting skills to the limit.  And the exception of course of The Victory, Soleil Royal and Spanish Galleon being much larger kits.

Hi Bill, 

Depending on the size of the kit with cracking Architectural features, the biggest one that Springs to mind is Heller's Soleil Royal, other than that also Heller's Royal Louis or La Sirene, all of which I have in my stash, these becoming more scarce though in the current climate. 

Outwith Heller I would definitely Recommend Airfix's Hms Prince, Wasa or St Louis or Royal Sovereign albeit the Sovereigns Hull detail is not great but it still has great Architectural features. I would have said "The Revenge" also but it is not so different from the English Man O'war build albeit smaller of course.

All of these again I have in my stash and to build list.

Revell  wise I think we are quite limited in ships with great architectural features, Apart from the EMO'war there is of course the same kit nearly in the Spanish Galleon, or we have their version of the Wasa(Vasa) or Pirate ship which has been reboxed as the Black pearl with slight architectural changes, outwith architectural features there are other others the same as Airfix like the Bounty and the Mayflower both of which I have in Airfix and the Revell  Spanish Galleon.

There is of course HMS Victory Airfix and Revell but I have heard numerous complaints about the mouldings on both kits and I remember I had trouble with one when I was 12yrs old. So I guess it you do a Victory, Heller's 1:100 is the only way to go which I too managed to pick up only 2 weeks ago.

I f your looking for a slightly smaller kit out of the list I have quoted I would go for "Hms Prince" it is again very hard to find though.

I have gave you a few photos below to wett your appetite mate.

On 11/7/2020 at 7:00 PM, Bill97 said:

Just noticed autocorrect typed premolars! 😀 no idea what that is. I typed pre formed. 

That Mizzen  looks a lot better now Bill, regards the premolars I guess you were just getting your teeth into it, sorry I'll get my jacket 😉

11 hours ago, Bill97 said:

I have not purchased it yet Robert. Still looking. I can find the Classic version but not the Special Edition. I just wonder what the difference is?  I am curious how the size compares to the Man O War we both built. I know they are 1/96 and the Golden Hind is 1/72. How does the model height and length compare?  I look for space to display my cases before I start a ship. I attached a couple pictures of my Cutty Sark and USS Construction in their cases. Have the spot for the Man O War picked out. 

Hi Bill, wow beautiful displays  wish I had cases like them, very expensive here if you need to buy them, especially for large kits.

The English Man O'war  is nearly Double the size of the Airfix Golden Hind.

The Hind when fully built Measures about 46cm in length and about 40cm in height, whear as the Man O'war is 75cm in length and 64cm in height when fully built.

Not sure how accurate the Scales illustrated on the boxes are, but I do know that most of the Airfix classic tall ships range were mostly scaled to fit the boxes as most the boxes are the same size.

The Special edition Golden Hind comes with a loom to make your ratlines/shrouds with, other than that i am not sure of the difference between these two types of Hind.

I can vouch though that the Airfix  Hind is definitely one of the better models and builds pretty well with little or no flash to trim, and looks bigger than the measurements suggest when finished, definitely one of Airfix Quality kits.

Nice one Bill, that looks a lot better.

On the subject of the Golden Hind, the one you've posted isn't the Special edition,this is the Special edition.

14 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Thanks again Jeff T and Louie about the racked mast. I doubled checked all my construction to insure all pieces are lined up exactly as directed. Then dry fitted the mast in the holes. Wow! The mizzenmast seems really racked to the aft, but I guess that it is correct. The bend in the bottom of the mast even accentuates it more. My first gallion build and I am so used to having the mast vertical on the Cutty Sark and USS Constitution. 

On the question  of your Mizzen mast, I think that's is leaning too far backwards mate, does lean backwards but not as much as that, I remember I had a slight problem installing this through the upper deck and into the hole in the deck below that you can't see, a little perseverance and I got it aligned ok, just make sure yours is allingned right mate.

On 11/3/2020 at 2:00 PM, Bill97 said:

Hey Robert I could have posted this on your Golden Hind build but thought you might see my question here first. What model (brand, scale, etc) is your Golden Hind?  After working on the Man O War, and loving it, and seeing your Golden Hind pictures, I am thinking of adding it to my future. I see 1/72 scale by Airfix online that looks similiar to yours. It is surprising it only has 109 pieces. Your’s looks more detailed/complicated than that. 

Hi Bill, Yes mines is the Airfix 1:72 scale, but the Special edition so I dont know if it had more parts in it or not? 

On 11/3/2020 at 10:41 AM, Louie da fly said:

 

Ah, bed linen -the old standby!

Just as good as anything else mate, no point in complicating things, if something  is tried and trusted then stick by it, unless certain circumstances need change.

No probs Bill, anytime you need to ask you know where I am 👍

4 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

I hadn't realised the model dated back so far! You're doing a very good job with her. I'm enjoying watching your progress.

 

One of your photos shows the ship seen from directly ahead - is there supposed to be a part filling in that strange gap at the front of the forecastle, or is that the way the model has it? The reason I'm asking is the pictures I have indicate a sharp point at the front of the forecastle, with a panel across further back and higher up (if that makes sense) where the shape of the forecastle dictates it. Here's my interpretation of this in my Great Harry

 

 

and here's a detail (the first 2 pics from from the painting above) showing the evidence for it

 

    

 

You might also like to consider silkspan for the sails - it's used as fabric covering for model aircraft and is very fine.

 

I haven't tried it myself, but quite a few people have reported good results.

Hi Louie thanks for that and the photos. Regards to the kit there is No part in the instructions to cover the front of the fore castle. So it maybe something I will try and look into further.

Regards the Sails I will probably just use the fabric I usually do re my English man o'war in which I used a cream coloured pillowcase. 

On 10/30/2020 at 11:52 PM, Louie da fly said:

Regarding the weight of the sails, you might like to try paper instead of fabric - it can be very convincing - see https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25784-barco-catalan-by-gbmodeler-148-scale-mediterranean-fishing-boat-finished/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-756498

 

I agree, the painting is a bit unclear - I magnified my original as much as I could, but it's hard to tell whether the mainyard is single or double. Double mainyards are very common in contemporary representations, but I think there's enough uncertainty there for you to feel justified in making yours single.

 

Really not sure if I could do or pull off paper sails, especially if I go down the route of the doubled main and forsails, I feel a lot mor comfortable with fabric as well as it looking a lot more authentic and less chance of getting damaged.

However I haven't decided yet which way to go on either Sail or Yard will worry about that when the time comes.

Thanks again for the Informative link Louie much appreciated mate 👍

Still a lot of work to be done, but for a 54yr old kit and 140 Cannons when finished, its coming together.

Pyro 1:144 "SANTA CATARINA DO MONTE SINAI"

9 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Yes Robert I ended up going with colors similar to the instructions. Tried other ideas but don’t have as good a knack for picking colors as you did. I am glad you responded because right off the bat I got a question for you. Looking at my instructions and your photos I am trying to understand exactly what needs to be done here. Are the threads 1 thru 5 individual lines to obviously be used later or are the same thread tied at both ends to the bow sprit?  Number 5 looks like it is a continuation of number 3 for example. 

Hi Bill, 

First of all 1,2&3 threads are a continuation to be rigged through a triple hole block and tied back into the bowsprit. No4, is the same thread through a block making a triangular shape again tied bk onto the bowsprit. No5 thread is attached to the other end of the block in No4 and will eventually be rigged to the 2nd crows nest on the foremast and has nothing to do with Nos1,2 or3.

Btw, there are another 2 triple holed blocks to get rigged the same way for the fore and main mast standing rigging.

Have gave you the 2 photos to see work in progress and finished example.

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Good afternoon Robert. Just letting you know I am referring to your build here a lot as I progress with my Man O War. My color scheme is a bit different but the actual build is obviously the same. I refer to your photos any time I am curious about something. Is very helpful. Just today when I was dry fitting my mast I noticed the foremast slanted toward the front. Definitely not verticals!  This concerned me and I wondered if somehow I had the holes lined up wrong. Sure enough I checked your’s and that is how the foremast is. 
 

Bill

Good afternoon Bill, Yes that is correct my friend, same can be slightly said for the main mast too, however the Mizzen and Bonaventure masts slant in the opposite direction, I was concerned about these too when building the kit, but I think it's to do with the rigging and obviously the height of the quarter deck and balance of the ship, in the end it all looks finished ok.

I see you have more or less went with paintwork within the instructions, looking good my friend.

7 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

 

Good decision. Are you planning to make a two-part mainyard? That is, two spars overlapped at the centre? This was normal practice at this time.

 

And note from the painting above the mainsail (and I think also the foresail) had sheets not only at the lower corners, but also "sheets" in the middle of the sail - which your model's pre-cast sails don't show. There was an interesting discussion of how to achieve that here https://modelshipworld.com/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-cocha-164-by-woodrat-completed/page/14/ and the following pages. I think Woodrat did an amazing job of it, but it was pretty difficult to achieve.

 

Thanks for that link Louie, very informative. Its definitely something I am going to take into consideration, I was thinking about extending the length of the Main sail anyway, and slightly shortening the height to make it look more rectangular rather than square like the kit moulded ones. 

I will obviously need to do a few measurement calculations as I have to watch that my kit doesn't become Top heavy as it's a very small plastic kit with the hull only measuring 26cm, so compared to Woodrats Wooden kit, he's had a lot more scope and a much bigger and stronger carrack play about with big improvisations.

As for the double main yard, it is also something I will look at, although it is not entirely clear in the painting Joachim Patinir of the SCDMS had a double main yard, but I can obviously  see why it might have done.

Small update on my Pyro "Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai" Decking finished and weathered, some Cannons added to Hulls as per instructions, also detailed painting inside ship finshed and weathered. Now to start the the building process to move on to the next stage of adding more Cannons, as well as hatches, Awning, Masts and bowsprit. I will try and make Yards for the masts as the ones with the kit are moulded to the Sails, as I want to add cloth sails as well which I will be hand sewing. Taking a lot longer due to 12hr shifts at work, but have been able to do 30mins-1hr here and there.

On 10/8/2020 at 2:28 AM, Jeff T said:

Very nice, Robert!  Sometimes, the smaller the scale, the tougher the project.   I use a head-mounted magnifying pair of lenses, but that still doesn’t solve the “shaking hand” problem that looks like an earthquake through them 🙂.

Hi Jeff any suggestions on a decent set of head mounted magnifying lenses, just wanting to avoid poor cheap stuff. 

Regards

Robert.

3 hours ago, Jeff T said:

Very nice, Robert!  Sometimes, the smaller the scale, the tougher the project.   I use a head-mounted magnifying pair of lenses, but that still doesn’t solve the “shaking hand” problem that looks like an earthquake through them 🙂.

Thanks Jeff, Yes  I tried using a free hands magnifying glass, but I didn't  feel comfortable  with it, I don't  wear glasses normally, only for reading very small print, so I suffice with using them, but using them and a magnifying glass confuses the problem  re brush distance to subject and etc, I am more accurate just using my reading glasses.

However  very early stages still and touch ups and the likes will obviously  get done in time 😄

Been held up with shift changes at work so I've had next to no time to start this kit. I've spent more time thinking about the colour scheme as the Box instructions and the 16th century painting are that far apart that its caused me a few headaches. I have only completed the stand and 1 side of the hull painting due to this but I suppose I've got started in some direction. And I thought painting triangles on the Hind and Revenge were time consuming these ones on the shields are only a couple of mm long very intricate on such a small scale hull.

Lovely work on that Decking Bill,it looks superb.

On 9/23/2020 at 12:55 AM, Louie da fly said:

 Beautiful work, Robert. I find it interesting that one of the flags included in the kit is that of the cinque ports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Ports - I know she's not based on a "real" ship, but it's nice that the kitmakers have added a little detail which gives some indication of her port of origin.

 

 

Hi Louie

You are correct  in that case, this particular flag being the "Lord Warden of Cinque Ports" 

I bought my Cloth Flags after sails from HISmodel as they look so much better than paper ones, just a shame you can't  get Cloth flags for every kit out there.

Best wishes 

Robert.

On 9/26/2020 at 2:52 PM, Bill97 said:

Hey Robert I got a question for you. I am starting my Man O War and I am curious of your process. In your pictures it looks as if you did a little of the hull painting before you glued the two halves together with the deck. Then after you put it together you continued and finished the remainder of the hull painting. Is that correct?  I have all my pieces primed and will start the delicate painting. I am going to weather the deck first so it is ready to insert in the hull halves when it is time. 

Hi Bill 

More or less correct, I usually paint all my parts first, Hulls and on sprues, before any assembly, anything after this is just little touch ups if needed.

I think it's better to do this with Galleons as there are usually a lot of intricate painting to be done which isn't very feasible if the assembly has already been done or at least it makes it harder to do imho.

Hope this helps Bill mate 

12 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Nice looking model, and the idea of giving it new yards and fabric sails is a good one - I think it would add significantly to the presentation.

 

This model is almost certainly based on the ship which appears repeatedly (in different sizes) in the painting below - and that is generally thought to be the Santa Caterina do Monto Sinai (launched in 1520, and da Gama's flagship on his third voyage to India).

 

 

 

If that's the case the kit seems to have taken a few liberties with the colour scheme - more appropriate to the end of the 16th century than the beginning (but much more colourful!).

 

I've always loved this ship and it's been a long term goal of mine to build a model of it. I didn't know there was a plastic kit available and though I no longer build in plastic, I'm looking forward to following your build. Carracks are a particular interest of mine and I've amassed a whole lot of information on them. If there's any way I can help with references, contemporary pictures etc I'd be glad to do so. I've put together a Pinterest page on larger, later carracks (which I like to call Great Carracks) at https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/great-carracksnaos/ which you might find of use.

Thanks very much, hopefully it will all come together 👍🤺🤺⚓⚓

Hi Everyone.

My Next build I have opted to go for out of my stash is Vasco Da Gama's Flagship Carrack the " Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai" on his 3rd Voyage to Portuguese India in 1524.

Although a smaller kit with the hull at 26cm with bowsprit and stern mast added the full length will be 41cm approx. This kit with its beautiful architectural moulding(photos below) has has the potential to be a little cracker.
Albeit this is will take some time as there is a lot of very small articulate painting. I am also going to try and make New yards for the masts so I can make cloth sails for this, as much as the plastic moulded sails/yards together have good detail on them, I much prefer cloth ones.
I will also have to experiment with the colour scheme a bit as actual original carrack colours seem to differ a bit every time on a different website and from the kit instructions which aren't very good. I will also have to re examine the rigging as the instructions again aren't great.

I guess this will probably hold as man challenges as a bigger kit, but I really wanted to do this kit as I love the history of it and it's a step back from the normal a bit.
Hopefully I will be starting this in the next couple of days if not the start of next week  👍🤺🤺🤺⚓⚓⚓