AnobiumPunctatum

Hi All.
Finally I chose to start this project. Like many others this will be my first attempt to scratch building. But  I hope that I will have enough skills and have time to finish it.
 


 
I completed the all kell parts, and ready for next step.
Like to ask for the rest of the plans

Aguriel,
 
if you have Antscherls TFFM have a look in volume 1, page 88. There is a description for the correct position of the treenails in the chocks.
 
To your observations and questions:
correct correct correct Yes, only the floor timbers and first futtocks are glued together. The timbers for the other frames are thinner and there the double frames will be connected with spacers. B and D are single frames. The change of double and single frames is common for English ships of this period. Frame 0: floor timber 1ft 4in, second futtock 1ft 3in, fourth futtock 1ft 1in; Frame 1 and (A): first futtock 1ft 4in, third futtock 1ft, 2in, top timber 1ft 1in That's a question of what you want. In the group build all timbers ofthe frames have the same size. In the original ship the timbers will become thinner. In my opinion and if this is your first try I would follow this simplification. If you like to know the correct sizes I will have a look in my book. Yes, there are the spacers. If you follow the dimensions in the books the top timbers are 1/4in smaller. I think that this is negligible in 1/48. The position of the gun ports gives the position of the frames The sizes of the timbers and the tolerances define the space. I would start to build the double frames and position them correct. Then I would add the filling frames (single frames) regular between them. See answer 6

Hi,
 
So I finished my first double frame. This was done mainly for testing since the frame is wrong some time now... I think the treenails and copper nails came out alright, the copper nails more then the treenails.
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
And the treenails on the scarph

 
I realised now that the treenails on the scarph should had gone through to the other side. But should the same thing be done on the chock?
 
For the finish I was planning on using Danish oil but I must admit it let the wood darker then I was expecting...
 
One half

 
The other half

 
The treenails

 
While I was putting the treenails I used a pencil to "paint" the treenails black but most of it came off during the process of applying the treenails to the frame. At the time I was worried that the black wouldn't show but I guess I was wrong.
 
I ordered wood from The Lumberyard and from Hobby Mill, although the are the same wood type (boxwood) there are not the same...

 
For last... next time have to be more careful to maintain the frame square when doing the holes for the treenails. This is a stupid way to ruin a frame almost at the end
 

It does. Your clipper will be a possible project in the future if my sloop is finished. I like the lines of the hull and also the interesting rigging of this ship type. How long will be the fully rigged model in 1/72?

Your frame is looking really good. The joints a very clean. Have you used a black pecil for showing them? I would only use a light brown pencil.
 
If you don't understand the drawing, please ask. I am happy if I can help you. I hope the following information help you to understand the drawing a little bit better.
 
The drawing is a part of the originial Disposition of Frames Drawing for HMS Triton. It shows the arrangement of the frames. The small numbers and letters at the bottom indentify the station lines. The midship frame is at station 0. It is a single frame with a thickness which is not common for ships of this period. Therefore the shipbuildes have given the dimensions of the different timbers. The next frame is a double frame. From the second futtock to the top you see a double line, because there is air between the frames. To connect the frames spacers (small timber blocks) are necessary. Under the gun ports are two single frames which have the regular dimensions. Allan Yedlinskys book is a fantastic reference for finding the correct dimensions. The next frame is a double frame, also with air ventilation.
 
If you need further information, please let me know.

Your frame is looking really good. The joints a very clean. Have you used a black pecil for showing them? I would only use a light brown pencil.
 
If you don't understand the drawing, please ask. I am happy if I can help you. I hope the following information help you to understand the drawing a little bit better.
 
The drawing is a part of the originial Disposition of Frames Drawing for HMS Triton. It shows the arrangement of the frames. The small numbers and letters at the bottom indentify the station lines. The midship frame is at station 0. It is a single frame with a thickness which is not common for ships of this period. Therefore the shipbuildes have given the dimensions of the different timbers. The next frame is a double frame. From the second futtock to the top you see a double line, because there is air between the frames. To connect the frames spacers (small timber blocks) are necessary. Under the gun ports are two single frames which have the regular dimensions. Allan Yedlinskys book is a fantastic reference for finding the correct dimensions. The next frame is a double frame, also with air ventilation.
 
If you need further information, please let me know.

It does. Your clipper will be a possible project in the future if my sloop is finished. I like the lines of the hull and also the interesting rigging of this ship type. How long will be the fully rigged model in 1/72?

Your frame is looking really good. The joints a very clean. Have you used a black pecil for showing them? I would only use a light brown pencil.
 
If you don't understand the drawing, please ask. I am happy if I can help you. I hope the following information help you to understand the drawing a little bit better.
 
The drawing is a part of the originial Disposition of Frames Drawing for HMS Triton. It shows the arrangement of the frames. The small numbers and letters at the bottom indentify the station lines. The midship frame is at station 0. It is a single frame with a thickness which is not common for ships of this period. Therefore the shipbuildes have given the dimensions of the different timbers. The next frame is a double frame. From the second futtock to the top you see a double line, because there is air between the frames. To connect the frames spacers (small timber blocks) are necessary. Under the gun ports are two single frames which have the regular dimensions. Allan Yedlinskys book is a fantastic reference for finding the correct dimensions. The next frame is a double frame, also with air ventilation.
 
If you need further information, please let me know.

Hi,
 
Anobium what a wonderful idea... when you say 3 thick frames at station 0 are you referring to the changes in thickness as we go up? The first biggest problem about this idea is that I still can't understand everything in those kind of plans. But I will try.
 
As for the frame I was building I used black paper to simulate the pitch and tar that was used. This introduced a extra high to the floors, futtocks and top timbers that I was not successful at compensating and one side of one of the halfs is bigger then the other. I also had to compensate the size of the chock and scarphs. Because of this (and Anobium's idea) this frame is now garbage.
I still used this frame to do some testing and to see the final result of using the black paper
 
One half...

 
The other half...

 
And the inside...


 
Now for the treenails. I will try boxwood (same wood as frames) for the treenails and copper wires for the nails. Let's see how it looks

It does. Your clipper will be a possible project in the future if my sloop is finished. I like the lines of the hull and also the interesting rigging of this ship type. How long will be the fully rigged model in 1/72?

Aguriel,
 
if you build the frames original,why don't you use the original frames design? You can use the pattern of the Group Build for this, if you let a little bit timber outside of the lines. It would be very interesting to see the 3 thick frames at station 0.
 

Aguriel,
 
if you build the frames original,why don't you use the original frames design? You can use the pattern of the Group Build for this, if you let a little bit timber outside of the lines. It would be very interesting to see the 3 thick frames at station 0.
 

Aguriel,
 
if you build the frames original,why don't you use the original frames design? You can use the pattern of the Group Build for this, if you let a little bit timber outside of the lines. It would be very interesting to see the 3 thick frames at station 0.
 

Greg and Druxey - many thanks!  I'm working on the 'steady' part.  The ventilation holes were fun.   I don't get to spend much time in the workshop, but get to spend a fair amount of time out of it planning what I will do when I finally get there, so I had plenty of time to map out the pattern. 
 
Well and shot locker almost done.  I will add the very top strip when the lower deck beams are installed, and I have some great photo etch hinges to add.  They were the subject of a workshop on photo etching done by one of the extremely gifted Hampton Roads Model Ship Society members (thanks Gene!).
 
I've begun work on the main deck beams.
 
Dave

Time for a semi-annual update.  First post since January other than my pleas not to archive the group build log.  Work continues slowly as a bunch of other commitments continue take priority over shop time. I have the inner hull done to the level of the upper deck clamps, and have begun work on the well.  Mast step is also done, as well as the limber boards and lower deck beams.  I haven’t put any finish on – I used some mineral spirits to clean off the sawdust. I’m continuing to work on the well.  I began gluing the sides on right before leaving on vacation, but didn’t take a picture.
 
Dave

This is what cherry looks like contrasted against the ebony on my last ship.  I like the contrast with the ebony.  I wouldn't use cherry on boxwood again- not quite the pox effect Druxey was talking about, but still too prominent. After the last model I got a Byrnes drawplate and can get the diameter down significantly smaller.  So far on the cross section I have been using boxwood on boxwood, and around a scale 1", which I'm a lot happier with. There are some pictures on the prior page.

I started deviating from the instructions a little.  I think it will be easier to work on the external planking with the model not mounted so I can rotate it as I plank and treenail.  This should be much easier to do without any of the internal parts fitted.  I’m leaving the starboard side unplanked, and have trimmed the tops of the frames and removed the temporary spacers. The finish is minwax matte wipe on poly.  I’m beginning to understand why so many people just use sanding sealer.  I like the way the poly finish brings out the boxwood color, but it also makes obvious areas where I didn’t notice that I had gotten glue. I installed 4 ribbands parallel to the lines of the futtock joints.
 
I followed E&T’s suggestions for brass blackening for the nails (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6977-the-blacken-it-trials/page-1) and got much better results than my usual.  The only thing I didn’t do is use de-ionized water- I couldn't find it locally and need to order some. I made my own nail pusher to get all the nails to sit the same ¾” proud of the ribband.  The end of the brass rod has a 1/32” hole drilled ¾” scale deep.
 
I started work on the port side, which I plan to fully plank.    I’m taking a break after cleaning up all the ebony dust.  I tried making the anchor stock wales hook and butt as per the instructions, but this was really hard to do in ebony.  I was looking at Maury’s log and Greg’s model, and saw that they both used top and butt, then saw that in TFFM it says that this was the usual on 6th rates-  much easier to make.  I used 76” as the distance between the edge and the widest part, slightly different than Maury or Greg, but it seems to work to put the pumpdale scupper at one butt, and the next butt centered on a frame.    I love the look of finished ebony way more than dyed or painted wood.  It has a bad reputation for being hard to work (nothing a Byrnes saw can’t fix) and irritating dust, which just takes a filter mask and a few extra minutes with a shop vac. 
 
I usually treenail in the same wood as the planks – I think the end grain gives just enough contrast that the treenails are visible without making them too obvious. Has anyone made treenails out of ebony? The way the wood splits, it would probably be a nightmare.  I will probably not try, and use cherry instead.  I did this on the wales on Hannah, and it looked OK.   I will mask like crazy when it is time to sand the installed wales so the ebony dust doesn’t stain the boxwood.  Plan is to plank with holly below the waterline and boxwood above.
 
Best wishes for the New Year.
 
Dave
 

I've been working on the deck beams.  The lower deck beams have no curve and were easy.  The upper deck beams were more of a challenge.  As suggested in the practicum, using a sanding block cut to the shape of the inside curve was really helpful.  For the outer curve I used a regular sanding block and digital caliper to get to the right thickness.  The beam arms were fun.  All of the joints so far were done with a table saw.  The pieces haven't been sanded yet, which should explain some of the discoloration on the wood.  Everything is just laid in place for the pictures. I can lay a straight edge across the beams and beam arms without high or low spots.
 
I've started cutting the notches for the carlings.  This is something I had a big problem with on my prior models.  I spent  a while on some scrap wood, and discovered my problem was pretty basic - my chisels weren't sharp enough.  I was doing pretty well with my large chisels with a sharpening jig, but was sharpening my smaller chisels by hand. This wasn't getting them anywhere near sharp enough, and I was getting a lot of tear out and cracking the wood.  I got a honing guide that fit my medium sized chisels, and a grobet roller graver sharpener that holds my dockyard microchisels, and all of a sudden was getting much better results. It took me about 90 minutes to make the first two notches (no picture yet) but they came out OK.  I made some templates to help mark them out so they all look uniform.
 
We drop my daughter back at college tomorrow and have an empty nest again, so hopefully slow progress will continue.
 
Dave
 

Thanks Mike.
I made some changes in space for main mast, as seen on in ChadB build, thank for inspiration, very nice.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 192 – More on Tops
 
The holiday season is a time for reflection and I have been thinking about the work ahead on YA in the New Year and beyond.  One of the approaching tasks is to finish the dust case that was started in an earlier post.  This project always gets me thinking about the size of the model.  The first photo, showing the drawing of the enormous fore yard attached to the mast, is not nearly as scary as it is in real life, but gives some appreciation of the final model size.
 

 
The yard is 82' long (~14" actual), just 7' shorter than the entire lower mast from step to cap – and without studding sail booms.  Even with all my familiarity with the drafting, it was somewhat shocking. 
 
The height of the model is another issue.  The next picture was taken using a Christmas gift – a new tripod that can crank up to 7' in height.
 

 
This will be needed for the rigging photos.  A leg of the old tripod may be seen in the picture.  So much for reflections on model size.
 
Some questions arose on the fabrication of the tops after the last post.  The steps are many, so I will refrain from describing everything here, except to answer some questions.  In the first picture the distance between index holes is being measured so the crosstree can be drilled to match the index holes on the drawing.
 

 
The aft tree has already been drilled and pinned in place on the drawing.  With the crosstrees in place the trestletrees were marked and the mortises cut, one at a time.  In the next picture the forward tree has been removed to check the first mortises.
 

 
After the structure was assembled, the bending pattern used for the rim, was used to mark the inner line of the rim on the structure.
 

 
In the next picture the half-laps on the cross and trestle trees have been cut, the structure has been located using pins, the rim has been pinned in place, and a chisel is being used to mark the lines of the mortises to be cut in the rim.
 

 
After fitting the joints, the rim was glued to the trees and all the excess ends were trimmed back.  The iron rim plates were then attached as described earlier.
 
There was a question on the slotting of the rim to fit the deadeye straps.  The next picture shows this being done using a jewelers saw.
 

 
The holes are too small to be filed.  The saw works well.  It does take some contortions to fit the saw to the threaded blade and to reverse it so the cut is always downward on the plate.  This keeps it from peeling off.
 
There is a cap over the forward part of the rim, covering the plank ends and also the joint at the forward end of the trestletrees.  This was cut from a single piece of wood and is shown in the next picture being finish sanded.
 

 
In this picture some planking has been installed.  These were installed over the lubbers hole to ensure a straight line once the lubber hole sections were cut out.  The next picture shows the three tops planked.
 

 
The holes in the fairlead planks were drilled using the x-y table on the mill to set the spacing.   I spent quite a lot of time this week making sure there were sufficient holes in each top.  This required reviewing the entire running rigging list of roughly 400 lines.  Each hole is allocated to a specific line – generally buntlines, leech lines, clue lines, upper sail sheets and some jib lines.  Six yards on each mast add up.  The line numbers for the mizzen top may be seen in the lower right of the photo.  As a result of the review, I added holes at the forward end of each top.  The fore and main tops now have 40 holes each and the mizzen 34.  There are just a few spare open holes, none in the mizzen top.  I mention this because rigging design and checking is consuming a lot of my time, so the modeling progress these days is slow.
 
The drawing in the last picture shows additional features added to the cap, in this case the mizzen cap.  Drawing discrepancies in the pictures, actually revisions were mentioned earlier.  Note that blocks are shown on the cap.  These are shackled to the cross iron on the cap, so to avoid having to strap the blocks later to the soldered shackles on the installed cap, this will be done before fitting the iron to the cap – a complication in using soldered shackles that requires more rigging checks early in the work – in this case checks of the entire standing and running list.  All of this is a great mental exercise.
 
Happy New Year everyone.
 
Ed
 

Good day . The work lasts 

Very nice.
Which drawings are the source for your model?

building the hms Victory, there`s good and bad in building this ship. the good is that the ship is still here and in dry dock in portsmouth,, the bad is that the ship is still here and in dry dock in portsmouth?????? do you follow the drawings or the remade ship at portsmouth, follow the drawings and you end up with a different ship?? build it like the one in portsmouth and you end up with a copy of a copy although thats the one everyone knows ??? so your dammed if you do and dammed if you dont. all the same Chris great job

There are quite a few references in the build logs that were rescued from the crash to the fact that the cross-section was designed to give beginners a feel for planking and framing. Amongst these there are a number of differences from the full build in order to make it all simpler. There are some specific statements about the changes, but I've forgotten what they are. I am sure you'll be getting specific information from others pretty shortly!
 
As for me, I've been making my cross-section even simpler by following the existing plans in the most basic way, not making the limber strakes accurately, leaving out treenails, not rounding off the top of the hatch etc., but I really admire people such as yourself who try to make this project as interesting as possible, and as perfect as possible -- I learn a lot from such builds.
 
Tony