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BANYAN

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  1. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from KeithAug in Steam Yacht Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - 1901/2008   
    This will be one very finely lined model Keith; your preparation, as with your work, is simply outstanding.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  2. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Keith Black in Steam Yacht Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - 1901/2008   
    This will be one very finely lined model Keith; your preparation, as with your work, is simply outstanding.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  3. Like
    BANYAN reacted to KeithAug in Steam Yacht Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - 1901/2008   
    Thank you John / Gary.
     
    It is time to start what I anticipate to be a long planking job.
     
    I am starting at the bulwark. I plan to plank the hull with mahogany planks of .062" thickness by nominally .220" wide. The plank widths will obviously vary to conform with the hull shape as progress is made. The bulwark will be made from a nominally 1" wide by  .032" thick birch ply which will be clad with .032" mahogany planks as per the attached sketch.

    The bitch ply cannot follow the line of the bulwark exactly without shaping so it is being put on to sit slightly above the line of the capping rail. It will be cut back to the capping rail shape later in the build.
     
    I started by glueing bits of scrap wood to the frames. These position / support the plywood during gluing. Each one cut back to  conform with the shape the plywood strip wants to take.

    At this stage I also did the final sanding of the hull.

    Then followed the slow process of fitting the plywood strakes. They were glued in position with a ample layer of PVA wood glue.
    The strakes were held in place with plenty of notice board pins and elastic bands while the glue dried.

    The plywood sheet wasn't long enough to extend the full length of the hull and the stern needed separate strips.


    I didn't get one to the frames right and this was revealed "too late" by the application of the bulwark strakes. I will need to correct this before I plank the bulwarks. Stupidly having noticed the mistake I the repeated it on the other side. There is no fool like an old fool.

    Applying the bulwark strake to the stern was quite challenging due to the extreme curvature.

    Before attaching the ply to the stern I slotted it with a series of horizontal cuts.

    With a bit of fiddling this enabled it to wrap around the stern.

    A bit of sanding produced an acceptable shape for subsequent planking.

    That all for now folks!
     
  4. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Chuck in Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build   
    What a difference some paint makes.   Bulwarks are painted however as usual, I will be applying many more thin coats over the next few weeks as I progress.   
     
    Before and after...
     

     


  5. Like
    BANYAN reacted to No Idea in Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build   
    What an experience and also what a momento - if that film turns out to be a classic that boat will be worth a fortune 👍
  6. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Chuck in Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build   
    Many of you are curious about this photo.   Its floating around the forums without an explanation.  I brought my Medway Longboat to the New London show last week where it was photographed..   You may not be able to see it right away but yes I changed this Medway English longboat to be an American boat.   This model was used in the movie that I worked on last year which I talked about a while back.   I changed the flag and the nameplate on the model.  They wanted it to be American and have the Character's Name on the model.  They were going to slowly pan across it for the movie and wanted Ed Harris' character name very visible etc.
     
    To my Surprise after spending a bunch time with him trying to teach him how to fake being a ship modeler,   Ed Harris signed the model.  But of course not the base....Black sharpie right across the hull.   No fixing that!!!  So rather than put the model back to its original English origin and remove the nameplates, I decided to just leave it as is.  It will make for a nice conversation piece.   The movie is supposed to come out in July I believe....It was about 10 degrees out the day he signed it.  The workshop was set up in the garage of the set.  I have no idea how they acted as if it wasnt freezing all the time.  I suppose that is why he is considered such a great actor.
     
    Starring Ed Harris, Dustan Hoffman, Bill Murray, Gabrielle Union, Jenifer Coolidge, Pete Davidson and a bunch of others you would certainly know.   We shall see how the movie turned out!!!   At least I have a memento for the wonderful experience.
     



  7. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Baker in Mary Rose by Baker - scale 1/50 - "Your Noblest Shippe"   
    With the port side also ready, the standards are made to height. A simple way to measure, is to use a wooden plank as a template.

     
    A mold for the semi-circular gun ports. This is slightly conical, so up to the arrow and no further, otherwise the hole is too big.

    Ready.

    This is how far we have come, next is the last piece of planking on the bow.

    Thanks for following
  8. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Louie da fly in The San Marco mosaic ship c. 1150 by Louie da fly - 1:75   
    Thanks Roger. That's my opinion entirely. A lot of this is educated guesswork based on (extremely!) inadequate source material. Of course we can't be sure it's all correct, but a lot of the fun is in the investigation of source material and speculation as to how it could be done, given the pictorial evidence (often affected by artistic licence), the archaeological evidence (often frustratingly incomplete) and the practicalities of sailing a wooden vessel.
     
    And if later evidence proves one of the guesses wrong, one still has the satisfaction of having done the best one could with the information that was available at the time.
     
    So, on to current progress. Shrouds and halyards in place, but only the foremast shrouds have been finalised.

    I really do need to clear my workdesk before I take photos!
     
    I made new silkspan sails - I wasn't happy with the first iteration. This time I made them oversize and folded the edges over instead of gluing strips of silkspan to the edges. The cross was painted on with Tamiya acrylic paint. I needed two coats for the "face" side and one for the other side. Considerably happier with the second version.
    And I've added the blocks to the yards - for the tacks at the lower ends and the vangs at the upper.

    Druxey, if I might pick your brains - how did you attach the bolt ropes to your silkspan sails (they look particularly good)? And the robands?
     
    Steven
     
     
     
  9. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from mtaylor in How to make flat rope coils?   
    Hi Bob, agree your reasoning WRT using such coils.  These coils may have been a bit more commonly used than perhaps thought.  Further to Bob's comments, even in this day and age (well when I was in the service at least) where synthetic cordage is commonly used (and more prone to the effects of UV), these decorative coils were in common use for rope whenever the ship was in harbour/at the buoy or at anchor.  When underway 'proper' working coils were always used. These coils are also evident in images of HMCSS Victoria (1855).  It appears this may have been the general practice in RN ships (or military type ships) back then also, as can be seen in the following photograph (c.1858) of the gun tackle working parts being cheesed (or more correctly - Flemish coiled).  The vessel was in harbour (moored) at the time.
     
    However, I must offer a point of difference in opinion WRT to how they were unwound.  When reforming the coils, or taking the coil in hand, we would 'unwind' it from out to in by grasping the rope/line near the block or securing device, then walking the line out.  This was the opposite to the way it was made up, which minimised the risk or tendency of the rope to kink, and allowed the rope to unwind with its lay.  That said, other Services/ships may have done it differently.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
     

  10. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from mtaylor in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  11. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from hollowneck in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  12. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Canute in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  13. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Knocklouder in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  14. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from FriedClams in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  15. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Scottish Guy in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  16. Thanks!
    BANYAN got a reaction from Glen McGuire in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  17. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Ian_Grant in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  18. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Keith Black in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    There I go and not pay close attention to the forum and you sneak another wonderful build under my nose - how dare you!   I don't know how I missed the log. At least it gave me some interesting reading when I found it today (only a month late but I'll put that down to encroaching 'old fella' symptoms). Great to see that you were able to satisfy all those 'stalkers and their penguins' in this build log  .
     
    Again you impress with your dioramas providing a very interesting setting and nicely presented SIB.  You should create a 'coffee table' style book of your work mate, it will hold up to any scrutiny.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
  19. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Jason Builder in Paddle to the Sea by Jason Builder - Solid Wood - 1941   
    The pictures of the model clearly show a shallow recess in the interior of the canoe.  Here I am carving that recess.
     

    And here is the current rough carved status:

     
  20. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Keith Black in USS Tennessee 1869 by Keith Black - scale 1:120 - Wood Hull Screw Frigate - ex Madawaska 1865   
    Wow, my last post was towards the end of March, time has certainly gotten away from me. My apologies for the delay for a Maggie update and a response to Brian @mbp521, Keith @clearway, Tom @TBlack, Eric @Cathead, Keith @KeithAug, Gary @FriedClams, and Mark @AnchorClanker. To each of you, thank you for your kind thoughts and well wishes. And thank you to all for the likes and for following along on this new part of our journey.
     
     Maggie is much improved in the clarity of her speech, fascial expressions, the strength in her left hand, ams, legs, and her independence. She is getting her own  breakfast and lunch. She's managing to do her laundry, she's washing some dishes (we don't have a dishwasher) or drying dishes after I wash. She's able to get in and out of the shower and gets dressed on her own accord. She's managed to do a little knitting, it's sure not pre stroke quality but that she's able to knit at all is a small miracle.
     
     She made meatloaf the other night with some help but she was able to make the effort and it was a welcome change from my cooking. While we were prepping we play bickered at one another and she reminded me that I was in her domain. Sweeter words were never spoken. This is coming none too soon as the other night I caught myself on Amazon looking at frying pans and paring knives. 
     
     She has a devil of a time with opening lidded containers so on those nights when I have pool league I have to place plastic wrap over those (lid removed) containers she'll be needing to get into for her supper and she has no issues using the microwave. I'm so grateful for her getting to this point as it allows for some much needed Keith time. 
     
     The above is answer to prayer, a peaceful rhythm of life has returned, our lives no longer feel like it's been stirred with a stick.
     
     Though we be knee deep in that time of year that requires outside attention, I'm getting real close to resuming work on the Tennessee. The other night I managed to attach a rigged pair of deadeyes to the port side and it felt good to be sitting at the worktable again. The third hand awaits, stropped deadeyes and thread callout,  time for this part of my journey to continue.
     
     Thank you for following along,
     
      Keith 
     
     
  21. Wow!
    BANYAN reacted to Glen McGuire in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    The Ghost Ship Jenny is complete!  Before I get to the final update, I want to give sincere thanks to everyone that followed along on this short but entertaining journey:  @Keith Black, @Knocklouder, @Ian_Grant, @gsdpic, @gjdale, @Scottish Guy, @FriedClams, @Canute, @Javelin, @mtaylor, @GrandpaPhil, @Thukydides, @Bryan Woods, @JacquesCousteau, @John Fox III, @hollowneck, @Landlubber Mike, @ccoyle, @Coyote_6, @BLACK VIKING, @CiscoH, @Rik Thistle, @Ryland Craze, @Paul Le Wol, @Mike Y.  I can never thank y'all enough for your support, suggestions, critiques, and humor!
     
    Now the final update.  To finish up the Jenny, I wanted to mount the bottle on something that would look a bit spooky, maybe a little eerie - something that would add to the mystique of a ghost ship.  A while back, I found this root ball from a fallen cedar tree that looked cool (actually a juniper tree, but we call them cedars in Austin).  I kept it knowing that I’d eventually find a use for it.  

    The bottle and the root ball turned out to be a perfect match.  The root ball rests stable and level on its side, and the bottle fits right in between the “tines” of the roots.   The cedar wood is very hard, weather resistant, and lasts forever.  They are commonly used for barbed wire fence posts around here.  However, they will still flake off strands of thin bark so I decided to seal the surface, trying to keep as much of the natural color as possible.  I ended up doing a 50/50 mix of Minwax semi-gloss poly and thinner.  The mix kept the poly from darkening the wood too much and allowing the natural variations to show through.

    Here’s the completed project.

     







  22. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Keith Black in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    Great backstory and I'm sure the Jenny will live up to your past SIB builds and finally..............penguins!
     
    "Okay guys, volunteers for the Jenny SIB project proceed to the check point on your right"

  23. Like
    BANYAN reacted to Glen McGuire in Ghost Ship Jenny by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/400 - BOTTLE   
    Well, I was gonna skip doing a build log for this project because I intended to just make a quick SIB for my niece as a gift.  But I got a little nudge from @Keith Black and @Knocklouder to start one, so we’re going to jump into this thing in progress.  I’m almost done building the ship but much work remains inside and outside the bottle.
     
    The Backstory
    Some time ago, my brother received a $200 bottle of scotch as a gift and just recently gave me the bottle.  Of course, the bottle was empty just like the Kraken rum bottle I got from a friend last year 😠.  I need to choose better friends and brothers I guess.  My brother has a daughter named Jenny, so I thought it would be cool to find a ship named Jenny and make a SIB as a gift.  I started looking around to see if there were any interesting ships named Jenny.  The only one I could find was one called the "Ghost Ship Jenny".  Of course that intrigued me right away.  
     
    Ghost Ship Jenny
    The Jenny was an early 1800’s 3-masted English schooner.  In 1822, she left her home port on the Isle of Wight in southern England for a journey to Callao, Peru on the western coast of South America.  Late in the year, unbeknownst to anyone, she got trapped in ice on the return trip while navigating the Drake Passage between the southern tip of Chile and Antarctica.  

    Seventeen years later (1839), a whaling boat named Hope was navigating the Drake passage and spotted a large schooner drifting among broken ice floes.  The Hope’s captain and several crew members rowed over to the ship and boarded her.  They discovered it was the long-lost Jenny.  The entire crew was found dead with their bodies well preserved by the cold.  Many of the forgotten crew were still lying in their hammocks.  The Jenny’s captain was frozen at his desk hunched over his last log entry, “May 4, 1823. No food for 71 days. I am the only one left alive.”
     
    Real story or Fake News?
    Adding to the intrigue is the fact that there's a lot of uncertainty about whether the story is true or a just a chilling legend.  Jenny’s tragic plight was written about in several periodicals during the 1840’s, but none of the publications cited specific sources that referenced either the Jenny or the Hope.  There is also speculation that Jenny’s story was, perhaps, a retelling of another event that happened to a ship named Octavius that was found near Greenland 50 years earlier, both sharing remarkably similar circumstances, albeit in a different century and opposite end of the globe.
     
    Ghost Ship Jenny the SIB
    So I thought that was compelling enough for the subject of a SIB.  There aren't any pictures of the Jenny to build from (since no one is certain she was even real) so I've got a lot of artistic license.  There also don't appear to be a lot of 3-masted schooners from that time, but I did find a painting of what looks like an 1800s era 3-masted schooner as well as an early 1900s Dutch one called the Oosterschelde, both of which I am using as a guide for my Jenny. 

     
    My idea is to show the Jenny inside the bottle trapped by small icebergs.  I want her to looked like she's been stranded there for many years, so I’m shredding and smudging her sails to give them a tattered look as well as trying to figure out other ways to make her look ravaged by the cold and weather.  Here’s a couple of pics I’m using as a rough idea for a ship trapped in ice and tattered sails.

     
    The penguins are feeling right at home and clamoring loudly to horn their way into this build.  I've held them off for now, but not sure if I can for much longer...
     
     
     
     
  24. Wow!
    BANYAN reacted to Chuck in Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build   
    Bulwark planking has finally been completed.  It really wasnt too bad.   You just have to keep plugging away and while making careful cuts between those ports.   All the cracks, gaps and dents were filled and sanded in preparation for painting.
     
    The second layer of spirketting was added as well to finish off the bulwarks below the ports.  The top edge was softened or even rounded off.  I dont like to leave a hard edge here.  I used a 1/32" strip the same shape and size as the first layer.  I took the shapes from the plans because this wide 1/2" strip needs to be tapered like the first layer and shaped before you glue it on.  Every model will have slight differences so it will take some time to get it right.     Then the top of the sills were very carefully sanded and the cracks filled there as well.   I was careful not to sand into the top of the spirketting which would ruin the nice continuous run along its top edge.  You can see how bad port sills look now but the surfaces are now smooth and once painted will look really nice.  
     

    Before I paint however I needed to add the 4 fixed blocks on the inside of the bulwarks.  On Winnie, I had used laser cut fixed blocks the same thickness as the planking.   You would glue them to the framing before planking and then plank around them.  I went a different way this time.  I just planked the entire interior bulwarks and then just drilled the fixed blocks through from the outboard side.   Then I sanded them clean and reamed them a bit with a round file.  To finish off these simulated fixed blocks I took a very small "V" gauge chisel and made a small simulated sheave slot between the two holes.   Since the bulwarks will be painted this seemed like the better way to go.  You can see the two fixed blocks below at the bow on the starboard side.  I used a sharpened pencil to color the sheave to simulate a more appropriate color.   
     
    I have also hi-lighted in this photo how I planked the bow inboard.   I first glued a 1/4" x 3/64" strip down the inboard side below the bowsprit hole.   See the red arrow.  This allows me to push the planking strakes up against it which for me makes the process easier and neater.  There were two more strakes to add on each side of this to plank the bow inboard.   The cracks were filled and it was all sanded smooth for painting.
     

     
    Here is a photo showing the aft portion of the bulwarks planked and ready for painting as well.  Note the two fixed blocks here as well. 
     

    The one last thing you might notice is that I did in fact add the margin plank all along the bulwarks.  This is 1/4" wide and 3/64" thick.   It finishes it off neatly.   You dont have to add this yet but I find it easier to paint the bulwarks when I have a nice right angle to paint down to.   Hopefully I wont bugger it up and get red paint all over the margin planks.  But if you find it easier to paint the bulwarks first without making a mess then fell free to do it that way.
     
    At the bow,  the margin planks on each side were cut from a 3/64" thick sheet of yellow cedar.   I used the plans and planking template provided.  I cut it out and used that paper template as a starting point.   After seeing what I needed to adjust for a tight fit, I transferred this shape to the wood sheet and cut it out with a sharp #11 blade.  If you look at the photo again you can see my first attempt which I discarded.  It didnt fit as nicely as I wanted.   So I made more adjustments and cut another.   You would be best served to buy a few extra 3/64" thick sheets of Yellow cedar for stuff like this.   Every model will be slightly different and you will want to go through this exercise as well for a good fit.   
     

     
    I am ready now for painting....the bulwarks will be carefully painted red over the weekend.  Depending on my honey-do list.
     
     
  25. Like
    BANYAN got a reaction from Scottish Guy in How to make flat rope coils?   
    Hi Bob, agree your reasoning WRT using such coils.  These coils may have been a bit more commonly used than perhaps thought.  Further to Bob's comments, even in this day and age (well when I was in the service at least) where synthetic cordage is commonly used (and more prone to the effects of UV), these decorative coils were in common use for rope whenever the ship was in harbour/at the buoy or at anchor.  When underway 'proper' working coils were always used. These coils are also evident in images of HMCSS Victoria (1855).  It appears this may have been the general practice in RN ships (or military type ships) back then also, as can be seen in the following photograph (c.1858) of the gun tackle working parts being cheesed (or more correctly - Flemish coiled).  The vessel was in harbour (moored) at the time.
     
    However, I must offer a point of difference in opinion WRT to how they were unwound.  When reforming the coils, or taking the coil in hand, we would 'unwind' it from out to in by grasping the rope/line near the block or securing device, then walking the line out.  This was the opposite to the way it was made up, which minimised the risk or tendency of the rope to kink, and allowed the rope to unwind with its lay.  That said, other Services/ships may have done it differently.
     
    cheers
     
    Pat
     

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