rtropp

Not necessarily the best, but here is one example of framing around a hatch.  (Source:  Curtis, W. H. 1919. The Elements of Wood Ship Construction. http://archive.org/details/TheElementsOfWoodShipConstruction )
 
I will keep checking some other resources to see if I can find a better sketch.  Any particular ship/era/type you are interested in?  Practice varied, as in so many parts of ship building, over time and between nations.
 

This is from Paasch, H. 1901. “From Keel to Truck” Marine Dictionary in English, French & German...  https://books.google.com/books?id=mG_VAAAAMAAJ&.
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

In general, all files work for metal or wood.  However, very coarse files, such as rasps, are not useful for metal because if the bit at all they would require a lot of force to push.  Rasps, are used for removing a lot of wood fast, but the surface will be rough, as in relatively deep gouges, or badly torn up is cutting across the grain.  
 
Very fine toothed files tend to clog up when cutting soft metals such as brass and aluminum: an old trick is to rub some chalk into the file before working.  It also helps to reduce friction.
 
For filing small metal parts, you'll need a fine tooth file, otherwise it will "catch" if there are only one or two teeth cutting.  I find that the diamond coated files work well for these situations - they are more like sandpaper than files.  Inexpensive sets can be found that will last long time unless you want to work in hard metals.

As I start to do more work on metal parts, I realized that I don't really know the difference between wood and metal files.  Also, if there is a difference, what key descriptors would I look for when purchasing.
 
Thanks,
Richard

As I start to do more work on metal parts, I realized that I don't really know the difference between wood and metal files.  Also, if there is a difference, what key descriptors would I look for when purchasing.
 
Thanks,
Richard

As I start to do more work on metal parts, I realized that I don't really know the difference between wood and metal files.  Also, if there is a difference, what key descriptors would I look for when purchasing.
 
Thanks,
Richard

As I start to do more work on metal parts, I realized that I don't really know the difference between wood and metal files.  Also, if there is a difference, what key descriptors would I look for when purchasing.
 
Thanks,
Richard

Another project..
Better to say a bit of experimenting
Time ago I found the paper model for Le Coureur, and for the first I decided to made the hull, to see the lines and how do the paper works in this case. In meantime I found drawings from iconography, in small scale, but my intention is to made a small scale.
As I started with LN in 1:120 (in fact 1:119) I decided that it will be my standard scale so reduced the drawings .
I haven't the requested paper but used some envelopes and made some copies, glued together.
For fast and straight gluing I use PVA glue and the iron for faster work. (also with iron prevent the elements to deforms due to the water from PVA glue)
I made the skeleton and that was like a playing.. but the lines seemed nice so I decided to continue.
But the hull made from paper wasn't too nice, many panels are deformed like on the real steel boats.
So I fixed the paper with CA glue and then applied the mono-component car's putty (IMPA) which regularly is used on plastic modells
Few repeating of sanding and applying the putty, final coat of liquid fine putty Mr Surfacer and sanding with paper 1000  to obtain clear surface.
The next step will be the second layer of boat's hull, it will be done with styrene strips
 
 

I have bought wood from Rockler. When I called about bad pieces they replaced them at no charge. woodcraft might do the same.
 
Richard

by the way, do you have a build log?
Richard

That is good to know,
Since the Syren is my first kit, I am trying to build it as described.  But, as my skills improve I am considering rebuilding... just to see if I really have learned anything. On the rebuild I may omit the quarter badges so nice to know it has some basis in history.
 
Richard.

I have bought wood from Rockler. When I called about bad pieces they replaced them at no charge. woodcraft might do the same.
 
Richard

Thanks for all the comments & likes. Haven't made much progress lately. Getting weaker & having more bad days now so I just don't get as much done as I want to.
 
 Cut a slot in a blunt end tweezer to hold the small brass nails for holding rudder coat on. Got it attached & painted it with flat enamel paint to look like tar which is what I assume they coated it with?
 
Jesse
 
 
 

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 153 – Ship’s Boats 9
 
Well, time is passing quickly and work on YA’s small boats has been going slowly – much too slowly for someone with my temperament, but the end is in sight.  I am sure that many, like me, will be glad to something new after all these small boat pictures.  This post should just about do it.  In the first picture, the last of the small boats, the 22’ cutter that will later hang from quarter davits, is getting its keelson installed.
 

 
Since this boat will be hung upright, the internals will be visible.  In the next picture some grating that will be used for a floor under the stern seats is being assembled on a spacing template.
 

 
The members of this grating are less than 1½” wide (.020”) on <3” spacing, made from Castelo.  The assembled section is shown below, before sizing and framing.
 

 
The grating was made, for the most part, as shown in earlier posts, or perhaps in Naiad posts, using the milling machine for precision and in this case to slit the milled strips without damage.  The grated flooring can be seen in the next picture where one of the thwarts is being installed.
 

 
In the next picture the boat is ready for painting. 
 

 
The missing wales will be added after both they and the hull are painted.  The next picture shows the almost completed boat.
 

 
All that remains is to add the lettering, the oars, the rudder and some iron hardware.
 
I have not been happy with the grated platforms at the helm, seen in earlier posts, so I took the opportunity to replace them with some grating of the smaller size, as shown in the last picture
 
.
 
Ed

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 152 – Ship’s Boats 8
 
I am almost there with the boats and looking forward to getting on with something different.  In the last part the frames and keel assembly for the 22’ cutter were fitted to the plug.  This boat will hang from quarter davits on the finished model.  In the first picture the rabbet if the stem is being roughed out with a V-gouge.
 

 
In the next picture the rabbet is being pared out at the stern. 
 

 
This was followed by some filing and cutting of the rabbet along the keel.  The starboard garboard strake is being installed in the next picture.
 

 
Additional planking has been installed in the next picture and the last installed strake is being beveled at the stern.
 

 
The angle of the bevel becomes more perpendicular to the side at the ends of the boat to allow the lapstraked planking to blend flush at both ends.  The planks also need to be tapered to fit fairly and come out right at the top.  In the next picture the planking is complete except the the wale strake that will be fitted after painting.
 

 
After some cleanup and dressing the planking lines, the boat will be removed from the plug for internal work and finishing.  In the meantime the other boats have been completed and one of the longboats is shown chained down to the skid beams in the next picture.
 

 
The chains have been fitted with covering to protect the boats.  One end of the chain is hooked to an eyebolt and the other is lashed to another eyebolt on the other side.  In the next picture the boat on the port side has been secured and wood chocks have been installed on the beams to restrain movement of the boats.
 

 
The last picture shows the 25’ cutter temporarily in place and complete except for the rudder hinges.
 

 
This boat will be held in storage and secured later after rigging is belayed between it and the rail.
 
 
Ed

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 151 – Ship’s Boats 7
 
Thank you for the comments and likes since the last post.  I am looking forward to completing the work on these small (3 to 4”) long boats!
 
After the last post I made some modifications to the 25’ clinker built cutter.  I took some advice from my good friend Druxey that the lapstrake planking needed to converge to a carvel form as it approached the stem and stern rabbets.  This is well illustrated in his posting on the Greenwich barge.  I applied a cosmetic fix to the installed planking as shown in the first picture to remove the overlapping at the ends.
 

 
The clinker style overlap at the rabbets would cause a complication in sealing and that is probably the reason for bringing the planks flush at those points.  Anyway, because of this, I decided to lapstrake the 4th boat using the correct process.  I had intended to make this carvel planked, but decided I needed to do one more clinker to fully understand the correct planking process.  The next picture shows another view of the current state of the first three boats.
 

 
You will notice that eyebolts have been installed in the skid beams and the boat sterns have been lettered.  The next picture shows the plug for the 4th boat, a 22’ cutter that will be suspended from the starboard quarter davits.
 

 
I reused the 25’ cutter plug as a starting point for this, hence the pinholes.  The plug has been primed in the picture – not very photogenic I’m afraid.  In the next picture the frames have been bent over the plug.
 

 
They of course need to be aligned.  The first step in securing them is shown in the next picture. 
 

 
A temporary guide and holding strip has been nailed to the plug over the frames at the boats topside height.  A hole for an additional nail is being drilled in the picture.  With the frames secured topside the stem piece is being fitted in the next picture.
 

 
This piece was then pinned to the plug and glued to the first few frames.  The keel was then fitted and glued to the frame floors as shown below.
 

 
The last step before planking was to add the stern deadwood as shown below.
 

 
This is glued to the keel.  The connections are all pretty fragile at this point, but the addition of the garboard strakes will strengthen it significantly. 
 
Ed

I am stunned to realize that I have not posted on this build log for almost two months!  Well, work and life just have a tendency to get in the way.  I have started working on the armament.  There are sixteen cannon on Atalanta.  I will be showing the eight on the port side.  This project has taken three times as long as I had anticipated and is not over yet.  
 
The first step is making the carriage side.  I laminated strips of costello the correct thickness together.  The various steps were milled into the laminated blank.  The curved under-carriage was roughly milled and the filed smooth.  The pictures show the blank from different angles.
 

 

 

 
Holes for the various bolt were drilled while the blank was still intact for stability.
 

 
The remaining parts of the carriage (axles, wheels, bed) were made.  There was nothing complicated about any of these parts.  The front and rear wheels are different diameters. These were turned down on a lathe and then cut off with a razor saw to prevent chipping. 
 

 
I made a very simple jig to facilitate assembly.  On the left side one can see the two size holes for the wheels.  The center hole for the axle was drill by inserting the wheel into the jig.  This helped prevent splitting.
 

 
The next pictures show various views of the partially completed carriages, including various rings, the bed bolt and the wheel pins.
 

 

 

 

 

 
Finally the quoin and the rest of the bolts were added.  The quoins were hand carved.  
 

 

Working on the head rails. The metal pieces have to be bent severly in all directions to fit. Using a torch to heat and bend very slowly little by little is the only way. After each bend, the metal is dipped in water to cool and placed on the ship until it fits properly. It took about an hour just to bend one side of the top rail, which seems to require the most bending.
The photos show the top rail before and after the finished bending.
 
Vince P.

I have seen equipment on Little Machine Shop and their extensive library of helpful information.
 
I was wondering if anyone had experience with their lathes and mills or with their support. I have found them helpful for accessories but wonder about their machines, especially as compared to Sherline.
 
Richard

I have seen equipment on Little Machine Shop and their extensive library of helpful information.
 
I was wondering if anyone had experience with their lathes and mills or with their support. I have found them helpful for accessories but wonder about their machines, especially as compared to Sherline.
 
Richard

Thanks Ken....maybe a future tech session at the club.  But there really isnt much to say.  Its done the same exact exact way that so many folks make them.
 
I just wrap the rope around a dowel.  I try and use the smallest amount of white glue...just on the top of the coil.   
 
Thats the real trick....try not to handle them too much and certainly less glue is better...watered down white glue.  Otherwise the rope gets mashed and you stick to it and pull fuzz up from it.  Keep your rope clean.  Less handling is key with clean fingers.
 
Then I take one of the hanging coils and wrap it around the top tightly to form the handle....so-to-speak.  Wrap it around the coil from the inside.   Twice around does the trick.
 
By the way,  none of the belaying pins are glued into position yet.  These coils are just temporary placed on top of them at this point...I will eventually just pull them off and store them in a box until rigging begins.
 
Also its just a great idea to experiment and make them well ahead of time.   You will need to use more than just one size.  Test them out before rigging begins.  Here are the five or six coils I will eventually hang on this rail.   You need to use thicker rope sometimes...how does it effect the rope its hanging next to?   How do you need to bend it so it hangs nicely in front of or in back of the coils next to it?  Should I vary the length of the coils a bit so its not to uniform?  Does it look too messy and hap-hazard?  These are the questions I am pondering at the moment.    I am just fumbling through it like everyone else.  The rails will fill up quickly and it gets harder to make them look natural.  Better to have a test run now rather than when you have all of that rigging.....shrouds....and backstays.....in the way.   Its just too frustrating then.  It becomes an after thought almost.  Because such a large grouping of rope on these pin rails becomes an important focal point...its a good idea to spend more time on it rater than wait. Otherwise it will detract from all of the other hard work you did.
 
Take a lot of photos of your test run from various angles as well.  Its a huge help.  I am still fussin....these close-up photos are brutal.  It often looks so much better just viewing the model first hand.  The naked eye can never see this level of detail as shown in the macro shots.
 
Chuck
 

 

 

hi all,
There is an interesting book, A Practical Course in Wooden Boat and Ship Building,  that was written on the eve of WW1 to help train carpenters in shipbuilding. One section describes spiling in some detail.
 
It is on google books.
 
The part with spiling is at
https://books.google.com/books?id=ITGmOqThhl4C&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=what+is+spiling+in+ship+building&source=bl&ots=Y5fYIsozj0&sig=wZw6aG2GRq-6NC7YZnan1Z_b_E0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmsK3t2eXKAhVINiYKHST7AkEQ6AEISTAI#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20spiling%20in%20ship%20building&f=false
 
The I dont think you can copy and paste the whole address but need to copy each line, one after the other to the address line.
 
Richard

With Titebond  or similar glues, I can remove the parts with alcohol. Also, I can clean any squeeze out with a brush and water. Can either of the glues be handled similarly?
 
Richard

The boom and gaff were assembled as per the drawings and as you can see I decided to paint them black.  Finding out the hard way, there is one boo-boo on the drawing.  The cleats shown mid-span on the gaff are in the wrong position.  They should be located on the sides of the gaff and not the top & bottom as shown on the drawing.  I also decided to put the foot ropes on the boom before it was installed on the ship.
 
 

 
I went to rig the boom’s topping lifts and discovered I had missed two blocks under the main top when installing them in chapter 17.  They are the two blocks attached to the trestle trees.  Using a pin vise and lots of patience the holes were drilled below the top and the blocks installed.
 

 
At the end of the boom topping lift paragraph it says, “Note the “leg” of .008 rigging that runs from the topping lift to the boom. It is shown on the rigging plans. This should be rigged as well.”   I don’t believe this is shown on the drawings or at least I couldn’t find it but I think it’s the line shown on page 122 in chapter 20.
 

 
The staysail rigging was installed per the instructions and the only change I made was to seize some left over split rings to the end of the downhauls instead of making eyes.
 
 

 
Now I need more rope coils, my least favorite thing to make.
 

The bow of this ship has certainly been a challenge.  Here she is, still very much in the rough.  I have installed through frame V.  The sheer line still needs to be defined, but I will worry about that later.  I experimented with a yellow Titebond woodglue that I am not a fan of.  Switching back to Elmers Carpenter - a white glue for the duration. At this stage, I am 72-hours into the build, again, averaging about an hour or so each day.
 

 

You will note that the template is still on the port frame V. As per the book, I am trying to keep the templates on as long as possible.
 

The shape of the bow at the sheer line has turned out a little sharp.  I plan to correct this in the planking stage.  Otherwise, she is symmetrical.