Mike Y

Hey all! Here are some pictures of the shrouds:
 

 

 

 
Quite enjoyable stage of the build, and changes the look of the model alot, at least in my eyes.
 
The ratlines will be testing my nerves though Im sure...
 
 
/Matti
 
 

Mike,
 
Hang onto the blanks with the defects.  Unless the discoloration is visible on the outside of the frame where most people will look, it won't be seen between the frames. Also, some variation in the color can provide and interesting appearance. I'm sure on the real thing all the wood didn't match.   I do agree that there is an issue with the supplier.
 
The joints are a hard thing to get right.  Cut, sand, fit, and rework as needed.  A pain, but a necessary one if the hull is unplanked.
 
Everything from here is looking really good.

Thanks for all the help!
Applied much more glue this time, glue was pre-dried (small can left opened for 24hr).
Looks much better, warping is minimal, and I used some extra clamps, stronger ones.
As it turned out, the lamination was ok - no sign of gaps or warping anywhere when the frame is cut.
 
Cut the test frame just to verify the process. It would not be installed on a model, the goal is only to practice.
 

 

 
First question: what is the proper margin, how far should I cut from the lines? If I cut too far away - frames would be either fat, or there would be an enormous amount of sanding later on (and with too much sanding the final shape of a frame would not be close to a proper lines). If I cut too close - frames would be too small after sanding. What is the golden rule of thumb?
 
Here is the side of a frame. Glue layer is slightly visible, but I guess that is expected? Or not? 
 

 
A lot of sanding and scraping to bring the frame down to desired 7.2mm thickness.
Note to readers - avoid using a heavy grits, even if you need to remove a lot. Sanded with 60 grit and got some deep scratches, very hard to remove. Good that it is a test frame, would be quite sad otherwise
 

 
And the end result is:
 

 

When sanded with a fine grits (1200 => 2000), the colour difference between various part of the frame is striking. Not sure what to do with that.. Well, in the end it is not plastic, so it is quite expected from wood to have a different colour naturally
 
Please post any critics, it is very important to get the technology right on a test frames. 
I am posting detailed process pictures hoping that somebody will spot a mistakes and share a good advice before I will produce 40 frames using a wrong technology

Ebony is a beautiful and stunning wood. But it can be a bear cat to work with. Super hard. Not easily bendable. Dulls blades and the dust is like coal. But the end result I worth. Many years ago I went to an antique show in the suburb of Winnetka at an old manor. I saw coffee table made from ebony with maple trim, a first. I almost fainted. It was perfect. I forgot the price. Today I doubt it could be done.
David B

Mike
Not certain why I was avoiding "Oliver Cromwell" but curiosity got to me.
Am I glad I visited.
I'll be back!
Alan

Just go to google and type "1/32" into mm". That's it.

After soaking, I typically leave the plank clamped to a former overnight to dry before gluing with PVA.  

Thanks for all the help!
Applied much more glue this time, glue was pre-dried (small can left opened for 24hr).
Looks much better, warping is minimal, and I used some extra clamps, stronger ones.
As it turned out, the lamination was ok - no sign of gaps or warping anywhere when the frame is cut.
 
Cut the test frame just to verify the process. It would not be installed on a model, the goal is only to practice.
 

 

 
First question: what is the proper margin, how far should I cut from the lines? If I cut too far away - frames would be either fat, or there would be an enormous amount of sanding later on (and with too much sanding the final shape of a frame would not be close to a proper lines). If I cut too close - frames would be too small after sanding. What is the golden rule of thumb?
 
Here is the side of a frame. Glue layer is slightly visible, but I guess that is expected? Or not? 
 

 
A lot of sanding and scraping to bring the frame down to desired 7.2mm thickness.
Note to readers - avoid using a heavy grits, even if you need to remove a lot. Sanded with 60 grit and got some deep scratches, very hard to remove. Good that it is a test frame, would be quite sad otherwise
 

 
And the end result is:
 

 

When sanded with a fine grits (1200 => 2000), the colour difference between various part of the frame is striking. Not sure what to do with that.. Well, in the end it is not plastic, so it is quite expected from wood to have a different colour naturally
 
Please post any critics, it is very important to get the technology right on a test frames. 
I am posting detailed process pictures hoping that somebody will spot a mistakes and share a good advice before I will produce 40 frames using a wrong technology

Thanks for the information, Allan! It is a pity that there is no even brief description on seawatchbooks website. Just some "volume", whatever that means. Only the last volume is clearly described as "masting and rigging".
That might actually stop people from buying a book because they are not sure what is inside..
Sorry for the rant
 
I was going to buy only the first volume, because I was unsure if I need a second one. Now I know it, thanks to Allan, so I will buy first two volumes. Just a bit of extra information => plus one book in the customer order

Yes, Mike, the second volume is a continuation from Volume I to the completion of the hull and deck fittings. Volume III is a photo-essay showing Greg Herbert's excellent build of a Swan class model hull. Volume IV covers the masts, yards and rigging, including rigging and belaying plans.

Thanks for the information, Allan! It is a pity that there is no even brief description on seawatchbooks website. Just some "volume", whatever that means. Only the last volume is clearly described as "masting and rigging".
That might actually stop people from buying a book because they are not sure what is inside..
Sorry for the rant
 
I was going to buy only the first volume, because I was unsure if I need a second one. Now I know it, thanks to Allan, so I will buy first two volumes. Just a bit of extra information => plus one book in the customer order

Richard
 
The index in volume two is several pages long so I will not detail it here, but basically Vol II continues the construction of the hull through completion.  Volume III is basically a series of photos of Greg Herbert's build (Well worth having) and IV is masting and rigging. 
 
Allan

Many people underestimate the part that economics and politics played. I suspect some of the preliminary models were as ornate as possible to raise interest in the project and the prestige of the shipwright. Once the ship was approved, funded, built and in service the navies would then maintain them using the cheapest, plainest paints that could be found on the planet. Many time purchasing from corrupt suppliers who supplied sub par product.

Thanks for advice, Mark! It is something I could never guess before starting to fair the hull, it can only come with experience! Will cut "just outside the line".

Mike,
 
I try to cut (operative word is "try", usually fail) just outside the line.  As for fairing.. 60 grit is fine if you're taking off a lot of material, but for just bit of removal, I00 should be good.  If you're going to plank, don't go below about 250 grit (I'm trying to recall Greg's advice) as the glue needs some tooth to grab. 
 
For a test frame, that one is looking most excellent.

Hi Mike. The care and attention that you're showing is admirable. I too, would be interested to learn from the advice you receive from other modellers, because it could be all too easy to make a mistake that's irrepairable.

More internal accommodation details:

(carefully writing down the notes).
Mark, thanks again for a step-by-step documentation of your build. It is very useful for a novice builders like me!
 
However, just in case if you missed it before, is that an optical illusion or there is a small "pit" in the frame here? 

 
Or the frames would be significantly sanded anyway, so such small things should be ignored?

Thanks for the likes and comments.
 
Mike,
 
You have good eyes.    There's a couple of places like that on the framing where I got a bit carried away sanding. At some point in the fairing, I'll fill the low spots with a bit of wood as I know I'm not 100% accurate on the cutting.  I wouldn't ignore them but as I said, they can be filled and faired in. If you look close, you'll see at the bow and stern that I've already filling in some where the "points" on the frame didn't got all the way to the rabbet.
 
I figure, with luck, I've got a about a weeks worth of work on fairing ahead of me.

(carefully writing down the notes).
Mark, thanks again for a step-by-step documentation of your build. It is very useful for a novice builders like me!
 
However, just in case if you missed it before, is that an optical illusion or there is a small "pit" in the frame here? 

 
Or the frames would be significantly sanded anyway, so such small things should be ignored?

Yeah for me...after 11 days and 3 tries, the hawse timbers are cut, assembled, shaped, and installed.  They still need lots of sanding but it's best (from my point of view) to blend into the framing plus there's an inside curve down down low that becomes the outside curve as it rises.  I'm thinking it's best to try it this way.
 
There's also still a ton of fairing to do and I want that done and out of the way before attacking the stern.   So the next update my be awhile. 
 
I'm debating whether to drill out the hawse ports or put in the plugs and leave the anchors unrigged.  My reasoning is that I'm considering full rigging and sails for this one.
 

Thank you, and i really mean it. I needed to hear this now because i really think my build sucks. The closer i get to the staining process the more i see all the faults, all the glue spots, all the faults all over it.
 
I have started to fill in the holes between the ornaments and the planks. Because i never sanded it down before i attached the ornaments.
As you can see here for example:
 

 
 
This is what i have achieved so far.
 

 

Hi Mike,
I find the need for several different light sources when building ships. Because of the close in work on very small parts in tight places, it is necessary to have different auxillary lighting. First I use a good quality fluorescent hanging lamp for the overall lighting. There is no flickering and the light is bright but soft. I then have an LED hi-intensity lamp with a bendable shaft that can be tilted in any direction or height for closeup lighting. This can be clamped anywhere on the bench where it would be needed. I also have LED handlights that can be used to look into tight places, and lastly an LED head lamp that frees up the hands. I use all of these at different times depending on what I am doing. All of these can be had for under $100 total.
 
Vince P.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7570-work-table-light-needed/
in this topic we say that a good lamp  has a price, but it is not everybody who are ready to buy.
 
Everone has it's own priority. If I would have the choice to buy a good lamp at $400 or a lathe at the same price, I would buy the lamp first, simply because I will use the lamp everyday and for the lathe it will be only ounce every 6 months. Also a good lamp will save your eyes.
So you have the choice you save your money or you save your eyes.
 
Every one fix his own priority. Between a lathe and a milling machine, evrybody buy the lathe first, but the milling machine is more useful than a lathe and even more if it can be use at the same time as a press drill.
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/5106-dentist-binocular-loupe/
this one is about  dentist  loupe, especially for very fine details if you do not have a good light, you will mist half the details
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7118-magnetic-task-light/
magnetic task light
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/327-le-fleuron-by-g-bordeleau-scale-124/page-3
occasionnaly, I talked about it.

Mark, Greg, thanks for comments!
 
But there is one thing I do not understand. If the surface of blanks would be rough when gluing them together - that will increase the gap between the blanks, and will require to apply more glue, which will increase the wood warping.
Or I simply need more clamps and higher pressure to prevent warping.. I'm already pre-drying the glue to reduce the moisture level.
But if two very experienced builders recommend it - I should listen. Will sand the blanks with a low grit to get a rough surface, will see how it behaves.