Reg

Hi,
 
I am looking forward to your build and the superb documentation you provide.  Best of luck!
 
Greg

yep.....same here.......the early K bodies paved the way for unibody construction.   we nicknamed them 50K cars...........drive 'em and toss 'em     some of the car models sold in the US weren't really worth the effort to keep 'em on the road.  those that were could be repaired,  but it was an expensive process.

Hi,
 
I am looking forward to your build and the superb documentation you provide.  Best of luck!
 
Greg

INTRODUCTION & RATIONALE
I was given the Ancre monograph of the Fortuné Joseph, an Allège d’Arles (the English translation), and, as I was wondering what next to build, this looked like a good possibility. There were lots of variation to these allèges, or lighters, in the 19th Century, but all had in common their lateen rig and general shape. Ever since being taken on an Arab felucca on the Nile (the one in my picture below), I have been intrigued by the lateen rig.
 

 
I haven’t been able to find any plans or construction details of a Nile felucca (if anyone knows of any, please do advise me), but this Mediterranean version seemed near enough and I liked the lines – so I decided to jump in and try my hand at a build.
 

 
I have treated my previous builds as a kind of enjoyable apprenticeship, learning the different ways of approaching builds, experimenting with wood and card, understanding the various types of tool that can be used, and getting to grips with plans and CAD. In particular, I have tried to figure out what aspect of model-making interested me most:
the type of model, the historical research, the level of detail, the level of skill, the level of accuracy, the general image, the balance between thinking and practical building, the presentation of the model when finished.  
 
My first realisation was two-fold: I am far more interested in working or merchant craft than in warships, and completion of the model holds very little interest for me. I simply don’t know what to do with the completed models, other than give them away.
 
The second realisation was that, partly because of my lack of interest in the completed model, and partly because I have nowhere to place them when finished, I would like to explore the creation of small-scale models. I had seen Javier Baron’s 1:200 build of the Allège, and thought that that scale would be an ultimate aim for me, but for the moment I thought I’d focus on a similarly large scale.
 
After seeing kondzik’s build of the card kit of the Allège d’Arles published by WAK, I bought the card kit and built it just as far as the completion of the hull and its planking. This kit seems to be very similar to the allège in the Ancre monograph (although there are lots of differences – such as the dimensions of the quarterdeck) so this would give me not only a good idea of the overall lines and problems that might have to be overcome, but also an insight into the use of card to scratch build a hull. I had had the idea of building hull bulwarks just with card and finishing the rest of a model with wood, as I’d seen someone do that with a Shipyard card kit of the Alert.
 
At first I wasn’t going to make this into a log for a model forum since it really was an experiment just to explore the possibilities as I will explain further on. However, I decided in the end that there may be enough interest in reflections on the Ancre publication to justify a log of my build that is definitely full of mistakes, and a rather ramshackle construction and finish. For these I apologise.
 
 
The build of the card kit also gave me a little experience with using filler on a card model to provide a good surface for the planking, as so many card modellers have said that without filler it is quite difficult to avoid depressions in the curve of the hull. I followed Ab Hoving’s suggestion of a standard water-based filler.
THE PLANS
Unfortunately, the monograph and plans drawn by F. Fissore of the allège (as others have noted with builds of the Gemma and S.Caterina) do not match the excellence and comprehensive nature of the monographs from other authors published by Ancre such as Jean Boudriot and Gérard Delacroix. Thus this monograph has a very different approach: the usual detailed analysis of the plans in the monograph is instead merely a list of the parts shown in each plan, there are no scantlings provided for any parts or rigging (we are not even given the dimensions of the keel), and the guide to the building of the boat is almost entirely in photographs of the author’s build (most of which are very small, of poor resolution and thus hard to demonstrate detail).
 
This approach might not be so worrisome to those used to working from plans. It should also be pointed out that the section on rigging is good, especially given the fact that each aspect of the rigging is given its own illustration in the manner of Lennarth Petersson, and this will be discussed later. Another big plus is that the plans are laid out on long pages whose height is that of an A4 page in portrait mode – making it easy to photocopy and then stitch the pages together.
 
[The dimensions of this photo have been modified to avoid replication.]

 
However these positive aspects are offset by lots of errors in both monograph and plans which need correction.
 
My first realisation of problems with the plans came when I compared Plan 1 with Plan 2. They showed the rudder and tiller entirely differently as follows:

In this instance, Ancre immediately responded to my request for clarification and they sent me a pdf of a revised Plan 1 which corrected this anomaly – Plan 2 showing the correct dimensions.
 
The anomaly made me study the monograph more intensely in case there were further problems which I needed to bring to the attention of Ancre. I soon found lots. There are four main types of problem:
 
1.    The plans are inconsistent with the method of building shown in the photos of the monograph.


(a) There are many details in the photos of the actual build which are not shown in the plans. This led to my having to undo some of the work I had done when I finally spotted the often important detail. One of the many examples is that there are inconsistencies about the number of beams running under the bowsprit fore timbers.


(b) Less importantly, the plans show the frame top timbers extending to the top rails throughout, but the pictures of the build showing the method of construction show the frames ending beneath the lower waterway with the timberheads being constructed separately and fitted into square holes in the waterways and rails. The confusion is worsened by the fact that the plans of the frames themselves do not show the position of the ends of the top timbers at all accurately. Of course, once this is understood, the experienced modeller will be able to adapt their thinking and modify the plans accordingly, but it is at first very confusing when comparing photographs with the plans.
 
 
2.    The second type of problem is that the plans of the frames are incorrectly drawn, especially in Plan 4 of the frames which shows the floors of each frame extending only to the top of the keel rather than to the top edge of the rabbet. Once this has been spotted by the modeller who has been careful to examine the measurements this again will not be a problem. The base of the floors has simply to be extended by a few millimetres (depending on the scale that will be used).
 
 
3.    The third type of problem is that of inconsistency between the plans. Thus in some the waterways are shown correctly, and in others they are simply not there. There are many other similar discrepancies.
 
 
4.    A fourth, more irritating problem, is that the numbers on several of the plans do not match the text of the monograph, nor are they consistent on different pages of the monograph. On some of the plans the numbers are duplicated, with different parts having the same number, on some the parts are given the incorrect names (e.g. a rudder blade is given the same number as a top rail; the keel and the sternpost are both referred to as the sternpost); and some parts are given no reference at all.

Some of these difficulties may possibly be due to the very poor translation into English (some pages are not translated at all from French, which is itself a translation of the original Italian) but obviously the experienced modeller will be able to manage once aware of the difficulties.
 
 
All of these are a great pity as excellent models of the Gemma and S.Caterina (both plans by Fissore) have been built (although they do mention but do not detail the difficulties they faced with the plans), and the ships themselves have great attraction. M.Fissore himself shows photos of the builds of his various models including his own of the allège (at Archeologia e Modellismo d'Arsenal) and it is well worth the visit as the photos there are far, far clearer than in the book). I have written a fairly detailed list of these various problems and submitted them to Ancre for consideration by M. Fissore, so it may be that future editions of these plans and monograph will be made more amenable for a wider range of modellers.
 
A very similar boat, La Diligente, which was a lateen Navy messenger boat of the 1750s, whose monograph is published by Ancre and written by Gérard Delacroix & Hubert Berti, has the same level of complexity but is not only incredibly detailed and thorough together with complete scantlings: it also provides a set of plans that will allow the less experienced modeller to make it POB rather than POF.
 
In the interim, as long as one is aware of the problems with plans and monograph, the experienced modeller will be able to use the correct body, sheer and breadth plans on a corrected Plan 1 as the basis for their model.
 
I'll be adding stages of the build over the next few weeks, so I hope it will be of interest. As usual, don't hold your breath!
 
Tony
 
 

Batavia is finished!  Completion photos have been posted to the kit-built ship gallery.
 
Kudos to Kolderstok Models for a really high quality kit, and thanks to Hans (the owner of Kolderstok) for all of his help at times along the way.
 
Regards,
David

Lower yard lifts done; lateen yard rigged.  Actually, partially rigged.  There is some more rigging from the lateen to the mizzen that I have to do.
 
Regards,
David
 

I thought I would lay out the steps I'm going through to build the bowsprit framing and deck.  Because this site sometimes orders pictures differently than I put them in, I have labeled each one "Step 1", "Step 2", etc. in the upper right corner so you can reference the pictures to the text.  I found this part to be an interesting "engineering challenge" in terms of build steps and sequence.
 
Step 1:  Dry fitted the center section of the deck and taped the two side edges.  This allowed me to line up the bowsprit frames  to t he notches in the side edges and glue them on in the right position.
 
Step 1A:  I took measurements across the width of the deck at the notches in the side edges, and used those to create a template of the finished deck shape.
 
Step 2:  Shows the bowsprit frames with the deck supports removed.  VERY delicate, so I want to build the deck and get it installed to provide support.
 
Step 3:  The bowsprit deck is made up of hatching, and you build it in sections with an outside edge that roughly follows the line on the template.
 
Step 4:  Bowsprit deck edge sanded down to align with the template.  This picture shows the parts dry fitted into the bowsprit.  I'll now build the other side and then glue the deck into the frames.
 
Regards,
David

Thank you Michael! 🍻
 
Hi All,

Another small update.

Ropes, Blocks & Rock'n'Roll   😆

I've started with bowsprit. It's just easier to do it when is not attached due to quite few blocks as you can see... rather than moving whole model and for sure damaging something 

I'm just missing few stoppers for stropped blocks, which were protection for sliding on the bowsprit and can stay at the same time whole time.
 

 
Lower part of main mast also received deadeye which is a part of mizzenmast shroud.
 

 
Double block on the flagstaff, which is part of mizzen sheet.
 

 
All gun tackles and breeching ropes done... so ship is ready for battle 
 

 

 
Cheers,
Matt
 

I have never seen a ship built with all the photo etch.  This will very exciting to watch!
 
Greg

I have never seen a ship built with all the photo etch.  This will very exciting to watch!
 
Greg

Incredible!!!
 
Greg

I have never seen a ship built with all the photo etch.  This will very exciting to watch!
 
Greg

I have never seen a ship built with all the photo etch.  This will very exciting to watch!
 
Greg

Hello,
 
Slowly getting ready for my second ship build, really enjoyed my last HMS Prince of Wales build and all the feed back and help was much appreciated.
Ill begin the build shortly and was given this kit to build for someone else with no time limit and just for fun. 
Included in the box is a MK1 upgrade set which has some PE, anchor chain, wooden deck and brass barrels for all guns plus I’ve pe from my POW build so can use that too.
 

 
Thought I’d start this log a bit before I begin so if anyone has built this ship and has any advice or “wish I’d known before I built” tips would be great to hear from you before I learn them the hard way!
 
I suspect this build won’t take as long as I learnt a lot from my last build. Will be my first attempt at camouflage and a few pics have her looking quite faded and weathered so will be fun to play around with making her look well used.
Here is a pic of her during D-Day and you can see the state I’ll be trying to go for which should be fun.
 
 

Incredible!!!
 
Greg

Another small milestone achieved today.  I've now completed frames 16 - 27 and I'm definitely getting better at making them.  Practice really does make perfect!  I still need to cut the slots for the frame spacers and also drill and fit all of the bolts.  I really do need to work on my butt joints though as I have a few which are really visible.  They look OK when I'm gluing them up but a bit more precision on my part is required.
 
 

In 2008 I decided it was time to make my first expedition into scratch-built ship modeling. This log will follow my progress both past and future as work continues.
Some of you may recognize this project. As I started and progressed through my models, I posted progress photos and discussions of my work on several model ship internet sites including the predecessor to “Model Ship World”. All of those sites and posts are now gone.
 
Starting in 2008 I made steady progress on the Dove up until 2012 when my progress came to a rather abrupt halt. I stopped for a variety of personal reasons without ever losing interest in the project and now have resumed my work. I hope to complete the work in the next year. So, this build log will include a lot that’s old and with a little luck something new.
 
Previous to this project, I had completed two somewhat challenging kits: Model Shipways Prince de Neufchatel and Model Shipways Benjamin Latham (both now posted in the gallery). As many of you may know, like many commercial kits, each of these kits fail to include the full range of details a modeler may want to represent and also include features which are distinctly out of scale or crude. In both cases I sought and found (largely in Howard Chapelle’s works) supplementary modeling data and I spent a fair amount of time on each adding to or correcting elements of the models.
 

 
Two Doves, well underway
 
With two completed kits below my belt, I began searching for a new project. It would be a scratch build. I decided that the project should be challenging but not too challenging, should be not too big and should generally follow along the lines of my previous work. In Chapelle’s The American Fishing Schooners I came across the Dove plans and decided that in addition to being fairly complete plans, the ship itself met my criteria fairly well, somewhat challenging, not too big and like the Prince and the Latham an American built schooner. I purchased a set of plans from the Smithsonian and I was off.
 
Jim
 
 

Deciding to fabricate Timberheads after grading the frames to their final elevations, the following process was used. A tongue and groove assembly will be used on to the frames.
1. Cut 5 X 8 (s) to lengths approximately 1 to 1.25" in length so that the pieces could be handled by hand when sanding.
2. Construct a jig for the milling machine that would bevel the 5 X 8 pieces at approx 11.5 degrees. Mill the required bevels as shown in the photos below.
3. Sand the edges by hand
4. Mill the tongues at the base of the timberheads. Cut off the timber heads leaving a tongue of about 1/8"
5. File a notch in the frame to which the timberheads will be attached so that the timber head fits neatly on to the frame

So here is first progress on the build.
 
During the holiday season, Santa brought a new toy for my workshop. It's a mini table-saw with 4 in diameter blades from Model Expo. This table saw wouldn't be as good as some of the rest of you have, but with my budget right now this is the best I can afford.
 
Started to copy the individual pieces that make up the keel of Brig Eagle.  There are three section pieces not including the bow and stern timbers for the keel of this model. I quickly re-learned how helpful it is to have a good source of back light while trying to trace the individual shapes as well as making sure the paper I will be using to trace the shapes onto is large enough to fit the whole piece onto the new paper.  To attempt making things easier for myself (a lesson I learned in the mistakes from Yacht Mary), I will be intentionally making both the main keel as well as the keelson 1/16 inch thicker than mentioned on the plans provided by Gene Bodnar.  This will be the same as the notches in the keel timbers found in the plans through Bernard Frolich.
 
Also the other week I received an order I had placed through Blue Jacket for the various cannons for this ship model. Eagle had 8 long cannons of 12 lb balls and 12 carronades capable of lobbing 32 lb balls. The guns need to be cleaned up a bit and maybe hollowed out at least a little bit.  Research done states that will be needing very sharp drill bits and going at slow speeds.  At a later date will be making own carriages for the different guns out of wood. I know that Chuck provides very accurate models of the carriages on his site. Will need to purchase the blackening formula Blue Jacket provide at a later date.

Hi All,
 
Ropes situation is progressing.
I think at that point I have maybe 90% ropes done. 
For sure I will run out of some running rigging ropes... but missing ones I will do as required.
 
Next step is to add some tar and impregnation 😉
 
Below some photos.
 
Anchors cables
 

 
Main and fore mast stays
 

 
...and few with smaller "caliber" 😆
 

 

 
...and my chocolate box 🙃😂
 

 
Cheers,
Matt

Hi Robin. Ever since i ordered that dvd from modelship building secrets i was intriged by that method. You're off for a good start. I'll gladly follow your build.

Hello friends
Currently in Vietnam is on the Lunar New Year holiday so I have time to spend with my ship, here's what I have done in having done so far, and I hope to finish all the cannons this vacation.
 

 

 
You are probably familiar with the movie "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" right, I am extremely impressed with the friendship and teamwork of the captain and the doctor so I made a violin, a Contrebasse and 4 swords of captain.
 

 

 

 
the hatch cover was a tough experience for me as it took me 10 hours to be able to punch holes in it.
 

 
However I am not satisfied with them yet, so I cut the decal into strands and then stick it on.
 

 

 
.

Hi,
 
Thanks for your interest in this build and the likes. 
 
The Neptune was apparently a "well researched" replica of a Spanish treasure galleon from that time, but it obviously is just a fictive imagination, although a very beautiful one, of a real ship from that era.
 
Of course the ship was build wide enough for the camera team to operate smoothly on the decks, but I will get to the width of this ship in a later post...
 
Back in 2012, looking at all the photographs I could find on the internet, I decided the ship must be the size of an HMS Prince. Having no plans, water line drawings or buttock lines, I decided to borrow some from the famous Vice-Admiral and shipwright José Antonio de Gaztañeta. I also ordered some books about Spanish galleons and from the maritime museum in Madrid the plans for the "Nuestra Señora de la Concepción y de las Ánimas (1687)", also by Antonio de Gaztañeta.
 

 

 
Gaztañeta's buttock lines were a bit younger, but they gave me a good starting point for my own ones, which, after tedious studying of photographs of the Neptune in wikipedia and other sources (mainly comparing ratios of lengths) led me to the following result:
 

 
So from here I made a "preliminary pizza-box" frame to see if the lines were adding up nicely. Of course they did not and I had to fix the one or another bulkhead. This fixing continued even until the point when I started to cover the bulkheads with the side panels (also made from pizza box).
 

 

 

 
After being satisfied with the pizza-box version I started to make the middle frame from balsa wood and a thick (2mm) layer of card and the bulkheads from a thick (3mm) card from some very old file folders that I found in the storage at my workplace. They wanted to throw them away so I collected as much as I could carry (in my IKEA-bags). The good thing about these old folders is that they are thick, but not laminated card. Ideal for heavy ship modelling! 
 

 

 

 

 
At this point I had to take a break from the build and got shortly back to it in 2018, when I saw the flickering candle light on Instagram. This motivated me to get back to this build but it took me still 2 more years, before I could really continue.
 
So much for now.
More on the development of the LEDs in the next post.
 
Rgds,
Radek
 

Hi All... after a long time 😂

Finally I've managed to pull myself together and sit behind the desk to push some work ahead 🙃
For those who were waiting for or wondering if topic will be continued... I have some small updates 😉

Basically I'm trying to complete all deck fittings and some other little hull "accessories". 
 
Also I've completed channels with deadeyes and chains.
Chains... nothing fancy... just copper wire (0.6mm) and silver solder.
 

 

 

 

 
External ladder
 

 
 
Fore and main mast tops finally together 😂
 

 
 
And some beauty shot of whole model

 
 
Cheers!
See you soon!

The clay work and gold leaf came out great.  
 
Greg