Jump to content

Bob Cleek

Members
  • Posts

    3,374
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Drill bit size   
    Get the below set of wire bits sizes 61 to 80 and you'll be covered up to around a 64th of an inch. Then buy a small set of bits between a 32nd or 16th of an inch and a half inch and you should be well covered. The Rogers bit set pictured below gives you one bit for each size in a handy covered drill index, but you will break them every so often, so you need to have spares on hand.  It's worth the price, though, because you get a nifty drill-index for them which is definitely handy for keeping your "in use" bit separate from your new bit stock. (The do dull with use over time and you don't want to mix up your dull ones with your sharp ones in the tubes.) Get on Model Expo and MicroMark's email lists (sign up on their websites.) When one of them has a sale on mini-drill bits, which will come in tubes holding ten of the same size, buy one of each size. (Sometimes the prices are as low as half-off.)  Better yet, buy the second set pictured below which has tubes of ten bits each of the same size ranges in a nice case.
     
    https://www.micromark.com/The-Rogers-Drill-Bit-Set-61-80-Set-of-20?msclkid=312a1cafe1631f9090b778b70e4777de&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NX_NTM_Shopping_Segregated&utm_term=4576442278804873&utm_content=Drill Bits
     

     
     
    https://www.pjtool.com/542-100-pc-micro-drill-bit-set-with-pin-vise-drill.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=numbered micro drill bit set&utm_content=Tool- PLA- Shopping&utm_campaign=Tool- PLA- Shopping&msclkid=b9a9d42bc2af16550898b0332a96c

     
    The boxed set also contains what appears to be a decent pin vise to go with them. These small bits won't survive use in a high speed rotary tool, so you'll get a lot of use out of the pin vise which has four collet chucks inside it to properly hold the full range of bit sizes in the set. (Or you can spend a few bucks more and treat yourself to a nice set of top of the line Starrett pin vises.
     
    Starrett Pin Vise Set, 0.010-0.200, Taper, 4Pc S240Z | Zoro

     
     
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Drill bit size   
    Get the below set of wire bits sizes 61 to 80 and you'll be covered up to around a 64th of an inch. Then buy a small set of bits between a 32nd or 16th of an inch and a half inch and you should be well covered. The Rogers bit set pictured below gives you one bit for each size in a handy covered drill index, but you will break them every so often, so you need to have spares on hand.  It's worth the price, though, because you get a nifty drill-index for them which is definitely handy for keeping your "in use" bit separate from your new bit stock. (The do dull with use over time and you don't want to mix up your dull ones with your sharp ones in the tubes.) Get on Model Expo and MicroMark's email lists (sign up on their websites.) When one of them has a sale on mini-drill bits, which will come in tubes holding ten of the same size, buy one of each size. (Sometimes the prices are as low as half-off.)  Better yet, buy the second set pictured below which has tubes of ten bits each of the same size ranges in a nice case.
     
    https://www.micromark.com/The-Rogers-Drill-Bit-Set-61-80-Set-of-20?msclkid=312a1cafe1631f9090b778b70e4777de&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NX_NTM_Shopping_Segregated&utm_term=4576442278804873&utm_content=Drill Bits
     

     
     
    https://www.pjtool.com/542-100-pc-micro-drill-bit-set-with-pin-vise-drill.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=numbered micro drill bit set&utm_content=Tool- PLA- Shopping&utm_campaign=Tool- PLA- Shopping&msclkid=b9a9d42bc2af16550898b0332a96c

     
    The boxed set also contains what appears to be a decent pin vise to go with them. These small bits won't survive use in a high speed rotary tool, so you'll get a lot of use out of the pin vise which has four collet chucks inside it to properly hold the full range of bit sizes in the set. (Or you can spend a few bucks more and treat yourself to a nice set of top of the line Starrett pin vises.
     
    Starrett Pin Vise Set, 0.010-0.200, Taper, 4Pc S240Z | Zoro

     
     
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Lathe   
    There's much wisdom, experience, and good advice in what NavyShooter has posted.
     
    Buy the best you can. The most expensive tool is always the one you have to buy twice. 
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from NavyShooter in Lathe   
    There's much wisdom, experience, and good advice in what NavyShooter has posted.
     
    Buy the best you can. The most expensive tool is always the one you have to buy twice. 
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Lathe   
    There's much wisdom, experience, and good advice in what NavyShooter has posted.
     
    Buy the best you can. The most expensive tool is always the one you have to buy twice. 
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to NavyShooter in Lathe   
    Function will define form.
     
    Size will define cost.
     
    Are you turning wood?  Are you turning metal?  How big an item?  
     
    I've owned a Unimat, Taig, and a Sherline over the years.  I upgraded to a used Southbend 10K, and have moved since then to an import 10x30 Lathe that didn't have the 'issues' that an old high school shop class beater lathe has in terms of wear and abuse.
     
    If all you're turning is cannons and bushings from brass, then a Taig or a Sherline will do you OK.
     
    If you're planning to build something large (bigger than about 1/2"), made of steel, or plan to do anything that's threaded, then you need bigger than that.
     
    There is a lot of info about the import 7x14 lathes that are out there - they're cheap, and you get what you pay for in terms of quality.  You'll find yourself working on upgrading/fixing the lathe more than you do building parts on the lathe.  
     
    In the end, I dumped about $1500 into bits and pieces for my Sherline.  I had the milling attachment, the extended bed, and so on.  It was still only barely capable in terms of what I wanted to do.
     
    I now have a 10x30 Precision Matthews lathe, and it's capable of doing everything I've tossed at it so far.  Cost me about $4K (Canadian) landed to my door with all the import fees/taxes/etc, and it was well equipped - both 3 and 4 jaw chucks included. 
     
    For $1500, you can get a Grizzly 8x16" lathe - 8" x 16" Variable-Speed Benchtop Lathe at Grizzly.com
     
    That's less than $200 more than the biggest Sherline mini lathe, with a heck of a lot more capability. 
     
    To be honest, if you've got the space for a Sherline, you've got the space for the Grizzly, and it's a heck of a lot more machine. 
     
    NS
     
     

     
     
     
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Lathe   
    Good precision machine tools, well cared for, should be capable of being handed down for as much as a couple of generations, if not more and be expected to hold their value well in what has otherwise become our disposable culture. 
     
    1.   How much money are you planning to save?
    2.   How much money can you save between now and when you croak?
    3.   What do you want to do with this lathe? (e.g.: maximum workpiece size, primary materials worked, primary type of work anticipated.)
     
    Number 3. above will determine which lathe and tooling would best suit your needs.  With this information, I'm sure you'll have folks from every camp able to give you the particulars matching your requirements.
     
    Today, there are probably only three options for small lathes useful for modeling:
    1.   The Chinese Sieg-made "seven by's" sold everywhere. Get a long bed version. Buy it from a top tier vendor (e.g.: Little Machine Shop, Grizzly) Who you buy it from is important because the Sieg, the Chinese manufacturer, sells the exact same models to retailers, but with varying levels of quality control. You get what you pay for. At the bottom end, you may buy a lathe that will not even run accurately without a total rebuild. 
    2.   The Taig mini-lathe, a high-quality precision machine, but somewhat smaller and lighter than the Sieg's.
    3.    The Sherline models, like Taig, but perhaps with somewhat greater versatility in terms of available tooling. 
     
    There are a few other options out there, but it's important to make sure that tooling is available at a reasonable cost. The now-discontinued and legendary EMCO Unimat SL/DB and Unimat 3 lathes, were amazing modeling mini-lathes which could be, with the attachments, turned into all sorts of machines such as a milling machine, a scroll saw, a table saw, disk sander, and so on. You will see many on eBay and lots of parts availability from "parted out" machines, but many of the machines need to be rebuilt and/or require tooling which is extremely expensive. If someone gives you one in good shape with all the attachments and tooling, grab it. Otherwise, walk the other way. These are seductive little machines, but, sadly, they are no longer made and so any parts or tooling you may ever need will have to be sourced on the recycled parts market at premium prices. (There is a currently produced line of "Unimat" lathes which are not the same thing as the originals at all. Another example of somebody buying the name and slapping it on an inferior product.) Another option may be to acquire a fine watchmaker's lathe. These are often beautiful works of art in and of themselves, but expensive and the tooling is very expensive, so beware. Some of these lathes use odd-ball fastener threadings and you'll pay hell to find tooling that will fit on them. One of the early decisions you will have to make is whether you want a lathe that is scaled in metric or imperial measurements. They go downhill in standardization from there and few tooling parts are interchangeable between the various makes and models.
     
    In most cases, the tooling to complete the average range of the basic machinist's work on any given lathe can easily run as much again as the base purchase price of the lathe and that applies only to lathes that are currently in production. Once a particular lathe is no longer produced, its lifespan is limited to the first essential part that breaks and cannot be replaced. Well, not exactly. Any part can be reproduced, but it can easily become more costly to do so than to unload the machine and start anew, but that could mean abandoning thousands of dollars invested in proprietary tooling collected over the life of the dead machine.
     
    Buy the best you can possibly afford and then some. (It may be necessary to jettison excess expenses, e.g. pets, wives, children, though not necessarily in any particular order. Be brave. Be strong. Be ruthless.)
     
    Buy the largest you can possibly afford and/or for which you have room in your shop. There will always come a day when you find yourself with a job too big for your lathe. Better later than sooner.
     
    Often, the best option is to buy a used lathe, but if, and only if, it's a model with easily sourced and reasonably priced parts and tooling which hasn't been ruined by misuse or worn out. (A used lathe should always be examined by a knowledgeable person before purchasing.) It may pay to read the local obituaries. If you can find a machinist's widow who wants to get the garage cleaned out, you may find the Holy Grail!
     
     
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from NavyShooter in Lathe   
    Good precision machine tools, well cared for, should be capable of being handed down for as much as a couple of generations, if not more and be expected to hold their value well in what has otherwise become our disposable culture. 
     
    1.   How much money are you planning to save?
    2.   How much money can you save between now and when you croak?
    3.   What do you want to do with this lathe? (e.g.: maximum workpiece size, primary materials worked, primary type of work anticipated.)
     
    Number 3. above will determine which lathe and tooling would best suit your needs.  With this information, I'm sure you'll have folks from every camp able to give you the particulars matching your requirements.
     
    Today, there are probably only three options for small lathes useful for modeling:
    1.   The Chinese Sieg-made "seven by's" sold everywhere. Get a long bed version. Buy it from a top tier vendor (e.g.: Little Machine Shop, Grizzly) Who you buy it from is important because the Sieg, the Chinese manufacturer, sells the exact same models to retailers, but with varying levels of quality control. You get what you pay for. At the bottom end, you may buy a lathe that will not even run accurately without a total rebuild. 
    2.   The Taig mini-lathe, a high-quality precision machine, but somewhat smaller and lighter than the Sieg's.
    3.    The Sherline models, like Taig, but perhaps with somewhat greater versatility in terms of available tooling. 
     
    There are a few other options out there, but it's important to make sure that tooling is available at a reasonable cost. The now-discontinued and legendary EMCO Unimat SL/DB and Unimat 3 lathes, were amazing modeling mini-lathes which could be, with the attachments, turned into all sorts of machines such as a milling machine, a scroll saw, a table saw, disk sander, and so on. You will see many on eBay and lots of parts availability from "parted out" machines, but many of the machines need to be rebuilt and/or require tooling which is extremely expensive. If someone gives you one in good shape with all the attachments and tooling, grab it. Otherwise, walk the other way. These are seductive little machines, but, sadly, they are no longer made and so any parts or tooling you may ever need will have to be sourced on the recycled parts market at premium prices. (There is a currently produced line of "Unimat" lathes which are not the same thing as the originals at all. Another example of somebody buying the name and slapping it on an inferior product.) Another option may be to acquire a fine watchmaker's lathe. These are often beautiful works of art in and of themselves, but expensive and the tooling is very expensive, so beware. Some of these lathes use odd-ball fastener threadings and you'll pay hell to find tooling that will fit on them. One of the early decisions you will have to make is whether you want a lathe that is scaled in metric or imperial measurements. They go downhill in standardization from there and few tooling parts are interchangeable between the various makes and models.
     
    In most cases, the tooling to complete the average range of the basic machinist's work on any given lathe can easily run as much again as the base purchase price of the lathe and that applies only to lathes that are currently in production. Once a particular lathe is no longer produced, its lifespan is limited to the first essential part that breaks and cannot be replaced. Well, not exactly. Any part can be reproduced, but it can easily become more costly to do so than to unload the machine and start anew, but that could mean abandoning thousands of dollars invested in proprietary tooling collected over the life of the dead machine.
     
    Buy the best you can possibly afford and then some. (It may be necessary to jettison excess expenses, e.g. pets, wives, children, though not necessarily in any particular order. Be brave. Be strong. Be ruthless.)
     
    Buy the largest you can possibly afford and/or for which you have room in your shop. There will always come a day when you find yourself with a job too big for your lathe. Better later than sooner.
     
    Often, the best option is to buy a used lathe, but if, and only if, it's a model with easily sourced and reasonably priced parts and tooling which hasn't been ruined by misuse or worn out. (A used lathe should always be examined by a knowledgeable person before purchasing.) It may pay to read the local obituaries. If you can find a machinist's widow who wants to get the garage cleaned out, you may find the Holy Grail!
     
     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Landlubber Mike in Lathe   
    First question is do you want to turn metal?  Big differences between metal and wood lathes.  You can turn wood on a metal lathe but really not vice versa.
     
    Second, depends on how much you want to spend.  Lathe accessories with chucks, collets, centers, etc. really add up over time.
     
    If you are looking for a nice little wood lathe for ship modeling, I think it's hard to beat the Proxxon DB250.  Works great on things like turning masts.  I had one before I decided to upgrade to a metal lathe for more functionality.  
     
    That's when I sold the Proxxon for a Sherline with extended bed and digital readout.  Sherlines are built like tanks and will last forever.  Also, if you ever see yourself possibly getting a mill, their lathe accessories can be used on their mill and vice versa.  Sherline is a big price jump up from the Proxxon though.
  10. Laugh
    Bob Cleek reacted to Twokidsnosleep in Lathe   
    I bought a Sherline with the extended bed and no CNC in August and love it

     
    For my purposes is is perfect

  11. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to mtaylor in Lathe   
    I've found I don't use my lathe all that much complared to tools like my mill, jig saw, and mini-table saw.   However, I would recommend once or even before you buy to go here: https://www.littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php and go to the "Learning Center" tab.  And also here:  https://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_lathe/introduction/introduction.htm     It will give some serious knowledge on the care and feeding of these machines.
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Snug Harbor Johnny in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    Jaager's right. Anybody doing any amount of woodworking beyond stick framing carpentry needs to have, or have access to, their own milling equipment. Only then is the price of wood anywhere near reasonable. (Even rough sawn wood at the lumberyard is much less expensive than finished four sides.) With a bandsaw and a thickness planer, you are good to go and you'll discover there are lots of sources of wood, particularly recycled wood. Make friends with somebody who's got the tools to do the job. 
     
    For bread and butter lifts, look for clear pine shelving at the big box stores. You can probably find nominal 1"x8"x48" pretty easily. Be creative. Look around. If you have to, sort through the piles of fence boards until you find some good clear ones, or ones with knots that you can work around. If you can find a pallet or two with wood that's easy enough to work, You should have no problem disassembling a pallet and getting wood for a bread and butter hull. (Keep in mind, oak may be too tough to whittle easily.) While used furniture is usually too nice to use for bread and butter lifts, it can be a good source of modeling wood. I've got a couple of leaves from old dining room tables I found at the dumps that look to be fine old mahogany like you can't get anymore. I suppose I'll find a use for it one of these days. I also have a 2"x6"x8 foot piece of old Burmese teak in my wood stash. I snagged that from the boatyard dumpster. My wife asks why I have all this old wood stored in my workshop. She just doesn't get it.
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Edwardkenway in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    Jaager's right. Anybody doing any amount of woodworking beyond stick framing carpentry needs to have, or have access to, their own milling equipment. Only then is the price of wood anywhere near reasonable. (Even rough sawn wood at the lumberyard is much less expensive than finished four sides.) With a bandsaw and a thickness planer, you are good to go and you'll discover there are lots of sources of wood, particularly recycled wood. Make friends with somebody who's got the tools to do the job. 
     
    For bread and butter lifts, look for clear pine shelving at the big box stores. You can probably find nominal 1"x8"x48" pretty easily. Be creative. Look around. If you have to, sort through the piles of fence boards until you find some good clear ones, or ones with knots that you can work around. If you can find a pallet or two with wood that's easy enough to work, You should have no problem disassembling a pallet and getting wood for a bread and butter hull. (Keep in mind, oak may be too tough to whittle easily.) While used furniture is usually too nice to use for bread and butter lifts, it can be a good source of modeling wood. I've got a couple of leaves from old dining room tables I found at the dumps that look to be fine old mahogany like you can't get anymore. I suppose I'll find a use for it one of these days. I also have a 2"x6"x8 foot piece of old Burmese teak in my wood stash. I snagged that from the boatyard dumpster. My wife asks why I have all this old wood stored in my workshop. She just doesn't get it.
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    Jaager's right. Anybody doing any amount of woodworking beyond stick framing carpentry needs to have, or have access to, their own milling equipment. Only then is the price of wood anywhere near reasonable. (Even rough sawn wood at the lumberyard is much less expensive than finished four sides.) With a bandsaw and a thickness planer, you are good to go and you'll discover there are lots of sources of wood, particularly recycled wood. Make friends with somebody who's got the tools to do the job. 
     
    For bread and butter lifts, look for clear pine shelving at the big box stores. You can probably find nominal 1"x8"x48" pretty easily. Be creative. Look around. If you have to, sort through the piles of fence boards until you find some good clear ones, or ones with knots that you can work around. If you can find a pallet or two with wood that's easy enough to work, You should have no problem disassembling a pallet and getting wood for a bread and butter hull. (Keep in mind, oak may be too tough to whittle easily.) While used furniture is usually too nice to use for bread and butter lifts, it can be a good source of modeling wood. I've got a couple of leaves from old dining room tables I found at the dumps that look to be fine old mahogany like you can't get anymore. I suppose I'll find a use for it one of these days. I also have a 2"x6"x8 foot piece of old Burmese teak in my wood stash. I snagged that from the boatyard dumpster. My wife asks why I have all this old wood stored in my workshop. She just doesn't get it.
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Lathe   
    Good precision machine tools, well cared for, should be capable of being handed down for as much as a couple of generations, if not more and be expected to hold their value well in what has otherwise become our disposable culture. 
     
    1.   How much money are you planning to save?
    2.   How much money can you save between now and when you croak?
    3.   What do you want to do with this lathe? (e.g.: maximum workpiece size, primary materials worked, primary type of work anticipated.)
     
    Number 3. above will determine which lathe and tooling would best suit your needs.  With this information, I'm sure you'll have folks from every camp able to give you the particulars matching your requirements.
     
    Today, there are probably only three options for small lathes useful for modeling:
    1.   The Chinese Sieg-made "seven by's" sold everywhere. Get a long bed version. Buy it from a top tier vendor (e.g.: Little Machine Shop, Grizzly) Who you buy it from is important because the Sieg, the Chinese manufacturer, sells the exact same models to retailers, but with varying levels of quality control. You get what you pay for. At the bottom end, you may buy a lathe that will not even run accurately without a total rebuild. 
    2.   The Taig mini-lathe, a high-quality precision machine, but somewhat smaller and lighter than the Sieg's.
    3.    The Sherline models, like Taig, but perhaps with somewhat greater versatility in terms of available tooling. 
     
    There are a few other options out there, but it's important to make sure that tooling is available at a reasonable cost. The now-discontinued and legendary EMCO Unimat SL/DB and Unimat 3 lathes, were amazing modeling mini-lathes which could be, with the attachments, turned into all sorts of machines such as a milling machine, a scroll saw, a table saw, disk sander, and so on. You will see many on eBay and lots of parts availability from "parted out" machines, but many of the machines need to be rebuilt and/or require tooling which is extremely expensive. If someone gives you one in good shape with all the attachments and tooling, grab it. Otherwise, walk the other way. These are seductive little machines, but, sadly, they are no longer made and so any parts or tooling you may ever need will have to be sourced on the recycled parts market at premium prices. (There is a currently produced line of "Unimat" lathes which are not the same thing as the originals at all. Another example of somebody buying the name and slapping it on an inferior product.) Another option may be to acquire a fine watchmaker's lathe. These are often beautiful works of art in and of themselves, but expensive and the tooling is very expensive, so beware. Some of these lathes use odd-ball fastener threadings and you'll pay hell to find tooling that will fit on them. One of the early decisions you will have to make is whether you want a lathe that is scaled in metric or imperial measurements. They go downhill in standardization from there and few tooling parts are interchangeable between the various makes and models.
     
    In most cases, the tooling to complete the average range of the basic machinist's work on any given lathe can easily run as much again as the base purchase price of the lathe and that applies only to lathes that are currently in production. Once a particular lathe is no longer produced, its lifespan is limited to the first essential part that breaks and cannot be replaced. Well, not exactly. Any part can be reproduced, but it can easily become more costly to do so than to unload the machine and start anew, but that could mean abandoning thousands of dollars invested in proprietary tooling collected over the life of the dead machine.
     
    Buy the best you can possibly afford and then some. (It may be necessary to jettison excess expenses, e.g. pets, wives, children, though not necessarily in any particular order. Be brave. Be strong. Be ruthless.)
     
    Buy the largest you can possibly afford and/or for which you have room in your shop. There will always come a day when you find yourself with a job too big for your lathe. Better later than sooner.
     
    Often, the best option is to buy a used lathe, but if, and only if, it's a model with easily sourced and reasonably priced parts and tooling which hasn't been ruined by misuse or worn out. (A used lathe should always be examined by a knowledgeable person before purchasing.) It may pay to read the local obituaries. If you can find a machinist's widow who wants to get the garage cleaned out, you may find the Holy Grail!
     
     
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to kurtvd19 in Lathe   
    Clovehitch:
    I see this is your 19th post so you are sort of new here.  Please do a search about lathes - this topic has been covered many times.  Once you have looked at the various replies about lathes feel free to ask any questions you may still have.
    Take care,
    Kurt
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from JohnLea in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    Jaager's right. Anybody doing any amount of woodworking beyond stick framing carpentry needs to have, or have access to, their own milling equipment. Only then is the price of wood anywhere near reasonable. (Even rough sawn wood at the lumberyard is much less expensive than finished four sides.) With a bandsaw and a thickness planer, you are good to go and you'll discover there are lots of sources of wood, particularly recycled wood. Make friends with somebody who's got the tools to do the job. 
     
    For bread and butter lifts, look for clear pine shelving at the big box stores. You can probably find nominal 1"x8"x48" pretty easily. Be creative. Look around. If you have to, sort through the piles of fence boards until you find some good clear ones, or ones with knots that you can work around. If you can find a pallet or two with wood that's easy enough to work, You should have no problem disassembling a pallet and getting wood for a bread and butter hull. (Keep in mind, oak may be too tough to whittle easily.) While used furniture is usually too nice to use for bread and butter lifts, it can be a good source of modeling wood. I've got a couple of leaves from old dining room tables I found at the dumps that look to be fine old mahogany like you can't get anymore. I suppose I'll find a use for it one of these days. I also have a 2"x6"x8 foot piece of old Burmese teak in my wood stash. I snagged that from the boatyard dumpster. My wife asks why I have all this old wood stored in my workshop. She just doesn't get it.
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Riotvan88 in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    I think wood must be more expensive in the UK. This model is about 1 meter long. Even at £30 a sheet your likely to only get one WL out of each sheet and need about 5 to 10 WLs depending on hull. Stil very expensive.  
     
    I'm going to search for a local yard and ask around. As a bread and butter looks less tedious than building a structure and planking it.
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from KeithAug in What would you purchase   
    Good point about the sanding grit getting in the saw's innards. The sanding disk is a fairly common practice with full-size table saws, though, and I've not heard of any problems there. I expect the use of an attached vacuum would be highly advisable if you were sanding. Switching between blade and sanding disk would definitely be a pain, which is why buying both a saw and sander from Byrnes makes the most sense.  
     
    If you're in need of a disk sander and short on cash, the lucky thing is that a disk sander is about the easiest power tool to make yourself. 
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from eddiedo867 in Your preferred Satin finish spray?   
    If you are looking for a recommendation for a finish, I guess the first question is, "What do you want to accomplish by spraying flat varnish on your model?" Any finish recommendation will depend in the first instance upon what kind of wood it is and how you want it to look. Since you are going to be portraying bare wood decks and spars, leaving the wood without any coating of varnish would make the most sense. 
     
    "Satin" varnishes, which is to say simply gloss varnish with fine powder mixed in to kill the gloss, add thickness to the finish coating without any corresponding benefit. The flattening compound not only dulls the gloss, but it dulls the "depth" of the finish below it. "Satin" finishes are simply a product which poorly mimics a traditional hand-rubbed finish. 
     
    If you want to change the color of the bare wood, a stain is in order. 
     
    If you want to accent the figuring of the wood (which most would not, since the figuring is likely hugely over-scale) two-pound cut white (clear) shellac will do that neatly and without any gloss whatsoever.
     
    From my personal perspective, I don't understand why folks want to spray "satin finishes" on their models, but I know that they do. Rubbing on something as simple as a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and turpentine with result in a very nice satin finish with no discernable build-up of the coating. When it comes to painting and varnishing a scale model, "less is more."
     
    Any finish that is too glossy can be rubbed down with rottenstone and/or pumice or even with a Scotch-Brite pad.) This results in a level of gloss (or "matte," depending which direction you are coming from,) which the modeler can control themselves, depending upon how much rubbing they do, There is no finer finish than a hand-rubbed one. The smoothness of a rubbed finish has to be experienced to be believed. The flatness or "satin" appearance is a function of the polishing of the primary reflective surface of the piece, not from finely ground dirt mixed in with all the coats of varnish applied. 
     
    I know some swear by water-based coatings, but it's my opinion that although some are quite good, Limiting the materials list to the fewest basic natural materials possible yields a model of the highest archival quality possible.
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Scotty W in Your preferred Satin finish spray?   
    If you are looking for a recommendation for a finish, I guess the first question is, "What do you want to accomplish by spraying flat varnish on your model?" Any finish recommendation will depend in the first instance upon what kind of wood it is and how you want it to look. Since you are going to be portraying bare wood decks and spars, leaving the wood without any coating of varnish would make the most sense. 
     
    "Satin" varnishes, which is to say simply gloss varnish with fine powder mixed in to kill the gloss, add thickness to the finish coating without any corresponding benefit. The flattening compound not only dulls the gloss, but it dulls the "depth" of the finish below it. "Satin" finishes are simply a product which poorly mimics a traditional hand-rubbed finish. 
     
    If you want to change the color of the bare wood, a stain is in order. 
     
    If you want to accent the figuring of the wood (which most would not, since the figuring is likely hugely over-scale) two-pound cut white (clear) shellac will do that neatly and without any gloss whatsoever.
     
    From my personal perspective, I don't understand why folks want to spray "satin finishes" on their models, but I know that they do. Rubbing on something as simple as a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and turpentine with result in a very nice satin finish with no discernable build-up of the coating. When it comes to painting and varnishing a scale model, "less is more."
     
    Any finish that is too glossy can be rubbed down with rottenstone and/or pumice or even with a Scotch-Brite pad.) This results in a level of gloss (or "matte," depending which direction you are coming from,) which the modeler can control themselves, depending upon how much rubbing they do, There is no finer finish than a hand-rubbed one. The smoothness of a rubbed finish has to be experienced to be believed. The flatness or "satin" appearance is a function of the polishing of the primary reflective surface of the piece, not from finely ground dirt mixed in with all the coats of varnish applied. 
     
    I know some swear by water-based coatings, but it's my opinion that although some are quite good, Limiting the materials list to the fewest basic natural materials possible yields a model of the highest archival quality possible.
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    I don't think it would be significant in that case, either. We must remember, though, that the USN specs for ship models were designed (and later written) for ship models of WWII vintage and newer, so six foot long models weren't all that unusual. A modern-day aircraft carrier at 1:96 would run around ten and a half feet long.
     
    I must confess that after checking it, I discovered my recollection of the USN model mil specs was "bass ackwards." They prohibit gluing the two halves of lifts cut together at the ends in models of less than 12" maximum beam! They only require hollowed lifts for models with more than a 12" beam.  They say that on hulls of less than 12" maximum beam they require that "...hull lifts shall be cut to the full body shape; lifts shall not be cut in halves, thereby creating a glue seam along the vertical centerline of the model." This would suggest that hollowed lifts were at the builder's option in hulls with less than a 12" maximum beam as long as the lifts were built of a solid piece of wood, and mandatory for hull's with a greater than 12" maximum beam and hulls over a 12" maximum beam could be glued up of two pieces along the centerline. That would tend to make sense because mahogany or basswood lift stock wider than 12" isn't all that easy to come by.  All and all, ship modelers would do well to aspire to following the Navy's specifications. 
     
    Actual text of USN ship model contract specifications:
     
    Hull
    Hulls shall be built up in lifts of clear, first-grade mahogany or basswood; doweled and glued together with water-resistant glue. The wood shall be completely free of knots, checks, and sap pockets and shall be thoroughly seasoned. Models over 12 inches beam must be hollowed for reduction of weight The hull shall be composed of the least number of parts necessary to achieve the proper shape. An excessive number of glue joints shall be avoided. On models less than 12 inches beam, hull lifts shall be cut to the full body shape: lifts shall not be cut in halves, thereby creating a glue seam along the vertical centerline of the model. The lifts shall conform accurately to lines of the vessel as shown by the plans. A stable, durable, flexible body putty may be used in moderation to fill gaps.
     
    Nautical Research Guild - Article - Specifications for Construction of Exhibition Models of U.S. Naval Vessels (thenrg.org)
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    OK    The lumber is planed.  When you buy an off the shelf 1" board, it is probably 3/4" thick.  You are paying for the wood chips.
    I advise accepting reality.  Buy the off the shelf boards.   Get a board wide enough to do half of the hull. Glue port and starboard at the midline.
    Measure the actual thickness and loft your WL to match what you can get.   Find out which builders lumber yard or building supply is used by your local contractors.
    Get what they use.  No Net,  visit in person.  The on-line guys seem to be real sharks.
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in 1st scratch build. Which wood   
    Basswood is not a species for you.   It is a North American species.  It is our substitute for Lime/Linden.  And it is a poor one at that. 
     
    Your lumber yards do not play nice,   your Pine is an import from here.  You don't want it under those conditions.
    It looks like your substitutes are English Cedar  or  European Douglas Fir.    Look at builders lumber yards.  Go with domestic species.
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Your preferred Satin finish spray?   
    If you are looking for a recommendation for a finish, I guess the first question is, "What do you want to accomplish by spraying flat varnish on your model?" Any finish recommendation will depend in the first instance upon what kind of wood it is and how you want it to look. Since you are going to be portraying bare wood decks and spars, leaving the wood without any coating of varnish would make the most sense. 
     
    "Satin" varnishes, which is to say simply gloss varnish with fine powder mixed in to kill the gloss, add thickness to the finish coating without any corresponding benefit. The flattening compound not only dulls the gloss, but it dulls the "depth" of the finish below it. "Satin" finishes are simply a product which poorly mimics a traditional hand-rubbed finish. 
     
    If you want to change the color of the bare wood, a stain is in order. 
     
    If you want to accent the figuring of the wood (which most would not, since the figuring is likely hugely over-scale) two-pound cut white (clear) shellac will do that neatly and without any gloss whatsoever.
     
    From my personal perspective, I don't understand why folks want to spray "satin finishes" on their models, but I know that they do. Rubbing on something as simple as a 50/50 mixture of boiled linseed oil and turpentine with result in a very nice satin finish with no discernable build-up of the coating. When it comes to painting and varnishing a scale model, "less is more."
     
    Any finish that is too glossy can be rubbed down with rottenstone and/or pumice or even with a Scotch-Brite pad.) This results in a level of gloss (or "matte," depending which direction you are coming from,) which the modeler can control themselves, depending upon how much rubbing they do, There is no finer finish than a hand-rubbed one. The smoothness of a rubbed finish has to be experienced to be believed. The flatness or "satin" appearance is a function of the polishing of the primary reflective surface of the piece, not from finely ground dirt mixed in with all the coats of varnish applied. 
     
    I know some swear by water-based coatings, but it's my opinion that although some are quite good, Limiting the materials list to the fewest basic natural materials possible yields a model of the highest archival quality possible.
×
×
  • Create New...