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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    A somewhat cynical view of finishes:
     
    Kits are expensive:   You are paying for someone else's  intellectual property, which you should, but you are also paying a lot for marketing, and distribution.  Each organization between you and the manufacturer needs to be paid.
     
    To offset these marketing and distribution costs, many "Hobby Shop Grade Kits" do not use high grade materials, and many use misleading descriptions to promote sales.  For example, genuine American Black Walnut is an excellent wood for high end furniture, but not so good for ship models, and the stuff marketed as walnut by some kit manufacturers is worse.
     
    Trying to find a finish to enhance the appearance of low quality wood is a waste of time.  Although there are finishes advertised to turn any wood into a work of art, these are aimed at the DIY and Craft markets. Many of these contain fillers intended to hide defects, thereby covering up detail that we want to show.
     
    So, realizing that not everyone has unlimited resources to devote to this hobby what are the alternatives.
     
    Deal directly with a kit manufacture with a reputation for furnishing high quality materials:  By buying directly from the manufacture your money goes into the kit.  You are not paying for distribution.  Links to these quality kit manufacturers can be found here on MSW.
     
    Use a finish appropriate to the quality of the materials:  As they say "paint covers a multitude of sins."
     
    Build from scratch:  Today, information that can be used to build accurate ship models is widely available.  An hour's search on the internet will turn up dozens of public domain examples of prototypes suitable for all skill levels.  Howard Chapelle's work alone could keep an army of model builders busy for a lifetime.  Prints of his work are available from the Smithsonian at a reasonable cost (I think comparable to a couple of Starbucks Lattes).
     
    With your prints in hand, go to the lumberyard and hardware store.   Buy a couple of chisels, coping saw, a quality pine board and carve a hull.  Buy other tools as needed.  Back in the 1930's, Popular Mechanics published articles on building ship models using just this solid hull modeling technique.  I have two such models built by my father that are between 75 and 85 years old that look like they were built yesterday.
     
    Roger
     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. Laugh
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium   
    Tools get you through times of no love better than love gets you through times of no tools!  
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Cathead in Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat   
    I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Beginner marking tools   
    ... and when you do buy a tool, buy the best quality tool you can afford. The better tool produces better work and will last longer. You'll save money in the long run that way. 
     
    And never loan a tool unless you don't mind buying another one.
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from East Ender in Degradation of lead and Britannia fittings   
    This is all you need to know about lead oxidization in ship models. Read it carefully, It's the "bible" on the subject.
     
    Nautical Research Journal - Vol 43 (thenrg.org)
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    It would seem that the Peanut6's question, which he titled an "education request," invited a comparison of pros and cons of the various options. As something of a "professional" yacht finisher myself once upon a time, I'm glad to hear that glbarlow's cabinet refinishers used something other than shellac or "satin" varnish, neither of which were the best option for the hard use kitchen cabinets endure. "Satin" varnish is best avoided altogether. It lacks UV filters and will degrade quickly in direct sunlight. It's often also difficult to keep the flattening agent evenly in suspension while applying it, resulting in an uneven flat/gloss level on the surface and the flattening paste (dust, essentially) obscures the wood below it. Clear "satin" finishes are made to mimic a real hand-rubbed finish and they do that poorly, at best. Shellac as a final finish on just about anything that will be handled is just wrong, other than on heirloom quality fine furniture, and then only when applied as "French polish," in which each shellac coat is hand-rubbed with oil, resulting in a finish that is a combination of oil and shellac.
     
    A "satin" or "hand-rubbed" look finish is accomplished using a hard top quality clear gloss finish which is hand rubbed with pumice and rottenstone until the desired level of gloss or "satin" is attained. No coatings chemist has yet to produce a brushed or sprayed finish "out of the can" that equals a real hand-rubbed finish. The real hand-rubbed finish is like no other in both appearance and feel. It's clarity and smoothness is unlike anything else. When the nature of a hull lends itself to hand-rubbing, either to depict either a painted or bright (clear) finished surface at "scale viewing distance," a real hand-rubbed finish is unequaled for that application. 
     
    If it makes the polyurethane fans feel any better, Hamburg-made Steinway pianos have been finished with a sprayed polyester finish for the last 30 years or so and have a deep high-gloss finish. New York Steinway pianos, an entirely different model with different tonal qualities, are finished with hand-rubbed lacquer and have a deep satin finish. Nobody knows fine finishes better than the Steinway company and even they find it useful to use two different coatings for different reasons to finish their pianos. You can be sure, though, that Steinway isn't using shellac or "wipe on poly" on any of its pianos!
     
    For those wood finishing wonks, here's an interesting article on how Steinways are refinished: The Art of Refinishing a Piano | Steinway and Sons Piano Refinishing (chuppspianos.com)
     
     
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Well, in the interests of full disclosure, I don't own any stock in Zinsser ("Bullseye Shellac") or Minwax (wipe on polyurethane,) but I'll add these two considerations to the discussion:
     
    If, in some way that escapes my imagination, one botches applying a thin coat of shellac, the error can be easily corrected by diluting the shellac with denatured alcohol and wiping it off. On the other hand, if one botches a coat of wipe on polyurethane, you're going to be in a world of hurt trying to remove it from a model without risking doing some serious damage to the model.
     
    For those in the rest of the world who are apparently less susceptible to the seductions of the advertising industry, Minwax's "wipe on poly" is nothing more than polyurethane varnish thinned with mineral spirits or the equivalent. In the US, it's sold with the thinner included for the same price as full-strength polyurethane varnish. Unless it doesn't bother you to pay pay full price for diluted polyurethane varnish, you'll be money ahead to thin it yourself to the consistency desired. Additionally, as wiping up the excess after the material has soaked into the wood surface guarantees a matt finish, I have no idea why Minwax sells "matt finish" version of the stuff. 
     
    That said, polyurethane varnish is tough as nails and great stuff for bar tops and hardwood floors. 
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    What Jaager said. Shellac is relatively inexpensive. (I but the pint or quart cans, premixed and then thin with denatured alcohol as required.) Shellac can be applied by brush easily. Excess can be wiped off with a rag or paper towel, if you wish. It will soak into the wood without raising the wood grain (unlike water-based coatings.) Cleans up easily with denatured alcohol. It's also good for fixing knots in rigging, or holding rope coils in shape. (Move as desired as the alcohol dries and before the shellac hardens.) Shellac dries very quickly and is easily sanded or rubbed with bronze wood (steel wool leaves tiny bits that will rust eventually, leaving marks on the wood) or rottenstone or pumice. A single coat will dry to a matt finish. Additional coats will build up to a gloss. I use white shellac for everything. Amber or "orange" shellac will darken to a rich dark brown as successive coats are applied. 
     
    Shellac can also be applied to paper and card stock, which will absorb it and become hard and stiff. It's useful for applying thin sheets of paper to flat surfaces, as well. 
     
    Try it, you'll like it! It's been around for millennia and is proven to last forever. 
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    I always knew there was a reason that I always kept my printed copies of magazines I valued, but, until now, I never realized why.   I have a complete cased set of WoodenBoat magazine, having acquired every issue since they provided us with samples to review at the classic yacht brokerage where I was working when their first issue came out. I also have a digital set and, just as Kurt does, I use the digital version for the index and to skim for what I'm seeking, but when I narrow my research, I always pick up the hard copy. 
     
    There's no explaining publisher's attitudes. I suppose some have good reason. The motives of others remain suspect. a few decades ago, I contacted the Hearst Publishing offices to inquire whether they would allow me to edit and prepare for publication a "best of" anthology of MoTorBoaTing magazines "Ideal Series," itself a collection of "how to build it" and similar articles from the magazine, which had been very popular between 1920 and 1960 before going out of business and, at some point, selling its rights to the Hearst Publishing Company. There were many "public domain" plans for some of the nicest small boats ever designed by some of the top naval architects in the first half of the 20th Century. I couldn't even get them to send me a rejection letter after three attempts to engage in discussions with them! It would have been some of the easiest money they ever made and there was no doubt the anthology would have been very popular. Hearst didn't even have the courtesy of explaining why they weren't interested.
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat   
    I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to kurtvd19 in Wanted - Full runs of MODEL SHIPWRIGHT/SHIPS IN SCALE magazines   
    Also, not listed is the new complete collection of Ships in Scale magazine - on a flash drive for $99.95 plus shipping.  Everything from the first issue to the last.
    Must call the office until the store section is updated (pending).
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from lraymo in Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat   
    I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    It would seem that the Peanut6's question, which he titled an "education request," invited a comparison of pros and cons of the various options. As something of a "professional" yacht finisher myself once upon a time, I'm glad to hear that glbarlow's cabinet refinishers used something other than shellac or "satin" varnish, neither of which were the best option for the hard use kitchen cabinets endure. "Satin" varnish is best avoided altogether. It lacks UV filters and will degrade quickly in direct sunlight. It's often also difficult to keep the flattening agent evenly in suspension while applying it, resulting in an uneven flat/gloss level on the surface and the flattening paste (dust, essentially) obscures the wood below it. Clear "satin" finishes are made to mimic a real hand-rubbed finish and they do that poorly, at best. Shellac as a final finish on just about anything that will be handled is just wrong, other than on heirloom quality fine furniture, and then only when applied as "French polish," in which each shellac coat is hand-rubbed with oil, resulting in a finish that is a combination of oil and shellac.
     
    A "satin" or "hand-rubbed" look finish is accomplished using a hard top quality clear gloss finish which is hand rubbed with pumice and rottenstone until the desired level of gloss or "satin" is attained. No coatings chemist has yet to produce a brushed or sprayed finish "out of the can" that equals a real hand-rubbed finish. The real hand-rubbed finish is like no other in both appearance and feel. It's clarity and smoothness is unlike anything else. When the nature of a hull lends itself to hand-rubbing, either to depict either a painted or bright (clear) finished surface at "scale viewing distance," a real hand-rubbed finish is unequaled for that application. 
     
    If it makes the polyurethane fans feel any better, Hamburg-made Steinway pianos have been finished with a sprayed polyester finish for the last 30 years or so and have a deep high-gloss finish. New York Steinway pianos, an entirely different model with different tonal qualities, are finished with hand-rubbed lacquer and have a deep satin finish. Nobody knows fine finishes better than the Steinway company and even they find it useful to use two different coatings for different reasons to finish their pianos. You can be sure, though, that Steinway isn't using shellac or "wipe on poly" on any of its pianos!
     
    For those wood finishing wonks, here's an interesting article on how Steinways are refinished: The Art of Refinishing a Piano | Steinway and Sons Piano Refinishing (chuppspianos.com)
     
     
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Degradation of lead and Britannia fittings   
    This is all you need to know about lead oxidization in ship models. Read it carefully, It's the "bible" on the subject.
     
    Nautical Research Journal - Vol 43 (thenrg.org)
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Covering up CA   
    What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 
     
    Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube
     
     
     
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in Covering up CA   
    What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 
     
    Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube
     
     
     
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to thibaultron in Stuart 10V model steam engine circa 1920s by Rik Thistle - FINISHED- 1:12 (est)   
    A great YouTube site for learning machining is:
     
    https://www.youtube.com/c/mrpete222
     
    He is a retired machinist and shop teacher. Warning: A Huge Major Rabbit Hole!
     
    For those of us with the 7X12,16 etc. Mini-lathes, there are a huge number of videos on YouTube on adjusting and rebuilding them.
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    I believe that most successful and experienced model ship builders have a mental picture of what they want their model to look like before they start building it.  Very much like an artist with a painting.  Finishing decisions are, therefore, made early in the game.
     
    Since the introduction of the European style POB models to the American market in the 1970’s  there seems to be a desire by neophyte modelers to finish their work bright (with a clear finish) to show their workmanship.  While a properly applied bright finish enhances the appearance of Dockyard style models, IMHO this finishing treatment benefits few of these kit models.  Most end up looking like toys.
     
    The vast majority of ships were working craft whose owners did not wish to spend money on elaborate finishes.  Paint was the order of the day.  Even navy ships with their large crews to keep busy were by the Nelson era, painted, 
     
    To me, therefore, obsessing about a bright finish for the average kit model is a bit like putting lipstick on a pig.  Wipe on poly, shellac, Dulcote, why argue? Git Er Done!
     
    Roger
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Tigersteve in Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat   
    I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat   
    I haven't read Chuck's instructions, which may address this issue, but, just as a suggestion, you may want to consider now how you will be mounting the hull when the model is completed. If you are planning to mount it with a couple of lengths of brass rod or on turned stanchions, etc., you may want to drill the mounting holes in the bottom of the hull now before you thin the bulwarks. Drilling mounting holes is sort of "rough stuff" major surgery and it gets really difficult to do if there's anything breakable on the hull. Don't ask me how I know this!  I can think of three times that I got ahead of myself and finished a model and then realized I hadn't drilled the mounting holes. I had to build custom-fit cradles to hold the models while I drilled up from the bottom with a jig to keep my drill bit plumb!  
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    It would seem that the Peanut6's question, which he titled an "education request," invited a comparison of pros and cons of the various options. As something of a "professional" yacht finisher myself once upon a time, I'm glad to hear that glbarlow's cabinet refinishers used something other than shellac or "satin" varnish, neither of which were the best option for the hard use kitchen cabinets endure. "Satin" varnish is best avoided altogether. It lacks UV filters and will degrade quickly in direct sunlight. It's often also difficult to keep the flattening agent evenly in suspension while applying it, resulting in an uneven flat/gloss level on the surface and the flattening paste (dust, essentially) obscures the wood below it. Clear "satin" finishes are made to mimic a real hand-rubbed finish and they do that poorly, at best. Shellac as a final finish on just about anything that will be handled is just wrong, other than on heirloom quality fine furniture, and then only when applied as "French polish," in which each shellac coat is hand-rubbed with oil, resulting in a finish that is a combination of oil and shellac.
     
    A "satin" or "hand-rubbed" look finish is accomplished using a hard top quality clear gloss finish which is hand rubbed with pumice and rottenstone until the desired level of gloss or "satin" is attained. No coatings chemist has yet to produce a brushed or sprayed finish "out of the can" that equals a real hand-rubbed finish. The real hand-rubbed finish is like no other in both appearance and feel. It's clarity and smoothness is unlike anything else. When the nature of a hull lends itself to hand-rubbing, either to depict either a painted or bright (clear) finished surface at "scale viewing distance," a real hand-rubbed finish is unequaled for that application. 
     
    If it makes the polyurethane fans feel any better, Hamburg-made Steinway pianos have been finished with a sprayed polyester finish for the last 30 years or so and have a deep high-gloss finish. New York Steinway pianos, an entirely different model with different tonal qualities, are finished with hand-rubbed lacquer and have a deep satin finish. Nobody knows fine finishes better than the Steinway company and even they find it useful to use two different coatings for different reasons to finish their pianos. You can be sure, though, that Steinway isn't using shellac or "wipe on poly" on any of its pianos!
     
    For those wood finishing wonks, here's an interesting article on how Steinways are refinished: The Art of Refinishing a Piano | Steinway and Sons Piano Refinishing (chuppspianos.com)
     
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in wipe-on poly or other final wood treatment education request   
    Well, in the interests of full disclosure, I don't own any stock in Zinsser ("Bullseye Shellac") or Minwax (wipe on polyurethane,) but I'll add these two considerations to the discussion:
     
    If, in some way that escapes my imagination, one botches applying a thin coat of shellac, the error can be easily corrected by diluting the shellac with denatured alcohol and wiping it off. On the other hand, if one botches a coat of wipe on polyurethane, you're going to be in a world of hurt trying to remove it from a model without risking doing some serious damage to the model.
     
    For those in the rest of the world who are apparently less susceptible to the seductions of the advertising industry, Minwax's "wipe on poly" is nothing more than polyurethane varnish thinned with mineral spirits or the equivalent. In the US, it's sold with the thinner included for the same price as full-strength polyurethane varnish. Unless it doesn't bother you to pay pay full price for diluted polyurethane varnish, you'll be money ahead to thin it yourself to the consistency desired. Additionally, as wiping up the excess after the material has soaked into the wood surface guarantees a matt finish, I have no idea why Minwax sells "matt finish" version of the stuff. 
     
    That said, polyurethane varnish is tough as nails and great stuff for bar tops and hardwood floors. 
  23. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in Covering up CA   
    What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 
     
    Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Covering up CA   
    What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 
     
    Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube
     
     
     
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from reklein in Covering up CA   
    What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 
     
    Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube
     
     
     
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