Jump to content

Bob Cleek

Members
  • Posts

    3,374
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in ‘Universal’ Primer   
    Zinsser's "Universal Sanding Sealer" (de-waxed shellac) is a different product from plain shellac. I've never used it, but according to their product description, the removal of the natural wax from the shellac in this product permits this coating to adhere well to previously coated surfaces. Like any product with alcohol used as a solvent, it's applied to alcohol-soluble coatings, it will soften the coating beneath it, of course. I only use shellac as a sealer on bare wood. I sand smooth and apply a single liberal coat of shellac, which soaks into the wood. When the shellac is dry, I give the surface a final sanding with fine grit sandpaper, and then apply paint over the surface, or if the wood is to be left bright, I just leave it without any further coating. 
     
    See: https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/sealcoat-universal-sanding-sealer/
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from tkay11 in ‘Universal’ Primer   
    The color range of natural shellac runs from orange which, with multiple coasts, will appear dark brown. Shellac flakes are bleached to achieve varying darknesses ranging from "clear" on up. You can obtain flakes from mail order houses and dissolve them in your own alcohol, but buying premixed "two pound cut" shellac in quart cans is cheap and easy. (Most paint and hardware stores carry it. In the US the brand is Zinsser "Bulls Eye.") It comes in two types, "orange" or "amber" and "clear." For modeling purposes, the clear is what you want. If you wish to thicken it, simply take some out and let the alcohol evaporate. To thin, just add more alcohol. A quart should last you a long time. Brushes clean up with alcohol. I store my used brush cleaning alcohol in closed containers and start washing a brush by rinsing in the "dirtiest" jar of alcohol, then move to another that's a bit less dirty, and finally rinse in a jar of clean alcohol. As the alcohol in the jars gets progressively dirtier, it gets moved into the "next dirtiest" jar. I use the "dirtiest" used brush cleaning alcohol for adding back into the can of shellac to thin it as needed, or even, if there's enough shellac dissolved in it, I use it for when I want very thin shellac. You save a lot on alcohol that way and don't waste shellac, either. One can also always leave the "dirty" jar of brush cleaning alcohol open for a day or two and let the alcohol evaporate and yield shellac of a desired thickness. Shellac that is "molasses" consistency is sometimes used to good effect as an adhesive. Dried alcohol is easily removed by simply washing with alcohol. Shellac permeates the wood surface and does not produce brush strokes or raise the grain. It dries flat on bare wood, but with multiple coats, will build to a gloss finish. It sands easily to a very smooth surface. Shellac is an archival material. Three thousand year old shellac covered artifacts in good shape have been found in Egyptian tombs. And it's really cheap compared to other coatings on the market. It's non-toxic (aside from the denatured alcohol it's mixed in. Shellac is what is used to coat jelly beans to make them shiny. What's not to like?
     
    Shellac contains a natural waxy substance that supposedly interferes with the adhesion of polyurethane and water-based (acrylic) coatings, although I've never encountered any problem applying oil-based finishes over dry shellac. If one is concerned about this, Zinsser also sells "SealCoat," a "dewaxed" shellac for use beneath polyurethane and water-based finishes. "SealCoat" is advertised as a "universal sanding sealer" for this reason.
     
    (Don't waste your money buying shellac in a rattle can. If you don't want to pay sixteen to eighteen bucks for a quart, you can buy a half-pint for ten bucks.)
     
    See: https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/bulls-eye-shellac/
     

  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from SighingDutchman in Bearding and Rabbet lines   
    No matter how you cut it, cutting the rolling bevel in a planking rabbet (sometimes called a "rebate") is a tedious process that takes some thought and care. You will find lots of theoretical instructions in boat building and modeling books about how to do it using the information that may be developed using lofting techniques. The exact angle of the rabbet can be developed for any point along the rabbet's length from the lofting (or lines drawings) and from that the rabbet, back rabbet, and bearding lines can then be developed and drawn or lofted. These varying angles define the shape of the rolling bevel that forms the rabbet. In small craft and model construction, there's an easier way to cut the rolling bevel without reference to the drawn or lofted the rabbet lines at all. Experienced boat wrights dispense with a lot of the lofting by "building to the boat," as  they say, rather than "to the plans." With the planking rabbets, this means that the angle and depth of the rabbet at any given point along the rabbet is developed using "fit sticks" and battens to define the rabbet lines and the bevel's rolling angles. It's easier done than said.
     
    What you do is frame out your boat or model. Take care, as is always necessary, to fair the frame face bevels. This requires setting up the frames and sanding the faces so that a flat batten laid across the frames in a generally perpendicular relation to the frames, as well as at lesser angles, will always lay flat against the frame faces. (You may need to place temporary blocking between the frames or otherwise secure them well so they don't wobble when you sand across them.) Your frames should be cut and set up as in full size practice, with the corner of the outboard-most side of the face precisely cut and set up on the section lines such that when fairing wood is removed from the forward side of the faces of frames forward of the maximum beam and from the after side of the faces of the frames aft of the maximum beam. The accurately cut frame corner, the forward corner on frames aft of the maximum beam and the aft corner of frames forward of the maximum beam, is the reference point for fairing your frames. Use one batten for marking the faces of the frames and another, with a suitable sheet of sandpaper glued to its face, or a manicurist's emory board, to sand the excess off the faces until they are fair. The batten used for marking is chalked with carpenter's chalk and rubbed against the faces of the frames to mark the high spots. Where the colored carpenter's chalk transfers from the marking batten to the frame faces is where the frame face is too high and needs to be sanded down some more. When the marking batten lies flat in contact with all the frame faces, transferring chalk to the entire frame face, the frame faces are fair.
     
    Now, with your frames faired, take a small stick of wood the same thickness as your planking and cut across at the ends perfectly square, which is called a "fit stick," and place it against the face of a frame and slide it down until the lower back corner of the fit stick (the inboard corner) rests against the keel. Accurately mark the point where the corner of the fit stick and the keel meet. This mark is where your bearding line is at that point.
     
    Then take a second fit stick and place it on top of the first with the first in the position it was in when you marked the bearding line point and slide it down over the first fit stick until its lower back (inboard) corner touches the keel and mark that point. This mark is where your rabbet line is at that point.
     
    Make these two marks at each frame. Spring a batten between all the upper and lower marks on the keel and draw lines through all the marks. These lines will be your bearding and rabbet lines. Extend them out as far as they will go, but, for the moment, they are relevant only for the span from the forward-most frame to the after-most frame.
     
    Now, at each frame, with your two fit sticks stacked as when you marked the lower rabbet line, take a knife or chisel and using the lower edge of the upper fit stick as a guide, cut into the keel at the same angle as the face of the bottom edge of your upper fit stick, i.e. with the flat of your blade against the edge of your lower fit stick. This cut should be as deep as your planking is thick. (This first cut can be easily made with a small circular saw blade on a rotary tool if you know what you're doing. Mark the blade face with a Sharpie to indicate the depth of cut.) Cut down to the point of the rabbet cut you've made from above so that you end up with the back rabbet face of the keel at a right angle to the rabbet line cut.  Test your cut with a fit stick, which, when the rabbet section cut at that frame is done, should lie perfectly fair on the face of the frame with its bottom edge fit perfectly into the rabbet you've cut. Because the angle of your rabbet is defined by the lower edge of the top fit stick and it's depth by the thickness of your planking, there's no need to worry about where the back rabbet line is. You'll develop the back rabbet naturally when the two lines you are cutting to meet at right angles at the bottom of the cut.
     
    Now, you simply "connect the dots" or rabbet "notches" you've created at each frame by carving out the wood in the way of the rabbet and bearding lines between the frames to form a continuous rabbet with a fair rolling bevel.
     
    The stem, deadwood, and stern post are a bit trickier than the sections where the frames are set up on the keel, but the method of marking them and taking the rabbet angles off of fit sticks is the same and shouldn't need much further explanation. The main difference is that a batten of the same thickness as your planking is place across the frame faces, rather than perpendicular to the frame faces, and extended to where its bottom inboard edge touches the stem, deadwood or stern post and is marked there for the bearding line, and then another fit stick batten is placed on the first to find the rabbet line. You will find a chalked marking fit stick batten to be handy again in fairing up the dubbing on the wide deadwood rabbets. These techniques are a lot easier to learn by doing than to explain in writing. 
     
    On a real vessel, cutting the planking rabbets is a very exacting process because the ease of caulking and the watertightness of these seams are dependent upon the perfect fit of these faying surfaces (where the planks and keel touch.) This isn't a big consideration in a model. What's important for a model is only that the visible rabbet lines and the planking are fair and tight. If the angle is off behind the planking and a bit too much wood is removed, it makes no difference because a sliver can always be glued in place to raise the plank to where it has to be and the rest filled with glue, or if too little is removed, the plank face can be sanded fair after it's hung. (The latter being the less preferable. It's generally better to remove wood from behind the plank than from the plank itself.)
     
    This may seem like a tedious exercise and it is, but doing it correctly will make your planking a far easier task, particularly in hull forms where there is considerable twist in the planks at the ends. A final word of caution for the modelers with a machinist's background: This is a hand job. You won't find a way to do it more easily on your mill. Many have tried to devise some sort of jig which would permit cutting these rolling bevel rabbets with saws, routers, or other power tools. As far as I know, and those I know who know a lot more about it than I do, nobody's succeeded. Don't waste a lot of time trying to figure out what nobody else has been able to accomplish. I expect that it could be accomplished, in theory, at least, with very sophisticated CNC technology, but would probably take a lot longer to program and set up than doing it by hand will.
     
    This video of full-sized construction illustrates the method described fairly well:  
     
     
     
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in ‘Universal’ Primer   
    The color range of natural shellac runs from orange which, with multiple coasts, will appear dark brown. Shellac flakes are bleached to achieve varying darknesses ranging from "clear" on up. You can obtain flakes from mail order houses and dissolve them in your own alcohol, but buying premixed "two pound cut" shellac in quart cans is cheap and easy. (Most paint and hardware stores carry it. In the US the brand is Zinsser "Bulls Eye.") It comes in two types, "orange" or "amber" and "clear." For modeling purposes, the clear is what you want. If you wish to thicken it, simply take some out and let the alcohol evaporate. To thin, just add more alcohol. A quart should last you a long time. Brushes clean up with alcohol. I store my used brush cleaning alcohol in closed containers and start washing a brush by rinsing in the "dirtiest" jar of alcohol, then move to another that's a bit less dirty, and finally rinse in a jar of clean alcohol. As the alcohol in the jars gets progressively dirtier, it gets moved into the "next dirtiest" jar. I use the "dirtiest" used brush cleaning alcohol for adding back into the can of shellac to thin it as needed, or even, if there's enough shellac dissolved in it, I use it for when I want very thin shellac. You save a lot on alcohol that way and don't waste shellac, either. One can also always leave the "dirty" jar of brush cleaning alcohol open for a day or two and let the alcohol evaporate and yield shellac of a desired thickness. Shellac that is "molasses" consistency is sometimes used to good effect as an adhesive. Dried alcohol is easily removed by simply washing with alcohol. Shellac permeates the wood surface and does not produce brush strokes or raise the grain. It dries flat on bare wood, but with multiple coats, will build to a gloss finish. It sands easily to a very smooth surface. Shellac is an archival material. Three thousand year old shellac covered artifacts in good shape have been found in Egyptian tombs. And it's really cheap compared to other coatings on the market. It's non-toxic (aside from the denatured alcohol it's mixed in. Shellac is what is used to coat jelly beans to make them shiny. What's not to like?
     
    Shellac contains a natural waxy substance that supposedly interferes with the adhesion of polyurethane and water-based (acrylic) coatings, although I've never encountered any problem applying oil-based finishes over dry shellac. If one is concerned about this, Zinsser also sells "SealCoat," a "dewaxed" shellac for use beneath polyurethane and water-based finishes. "SealCoat" is advertised as a "universal sanding sealer" for this reason.
     
    (Don't waste your money buying shellac in a rattle can. If you don't want to pay sixteen to eighteen bucks for a quart, you can buy a half-pint for ten bucks.)
     
    See: https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/bulls-eye-shellac/
     

  5. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Jaager in ‘Universal’ Primer   
    Shellac is as close to being a 'universal' primer as can be had.    It is available as flakes and already in solution.
    The flakes are for when a clear finish is the goal and no darkening of the wood is desired.  The solvent is alcohol.  Super Blonde is close to being water clear,
     but the solubility in alcohol is about 1/2 that of Garnet.  If a paint is going over it, it is easier to just purchase is premixed  and dilute it.
    The first coat should a half strength concentration .
    The hows and whys of using shellac have been discussed more than once in this forum.  Bob Cleek has done the best job of explaining, 
    It is a very old and times tested material so it has old measures   - pounds cut - which is pounds of flakes per gallon of alcohol.  I think garnet is 10 lbs cut for saturation which rounds out to being a 10% solution.   Battery operated small scales are not expensive,  so it is easy to weigh out 10 gm and qs to 100 ml with shellac thinner or  5 gm of super blonde and qs it to 100 ml with shellac thinner.
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Estoy_Listo in Question about painting and staining   
    The fingers are more reliable "blemish detectors" than the eyes in any event. If it feels smooth, it is smooth. Sealing wood with shellac prior to a final fine-grit sanding, and then the use of a tack rag before painting, will go a long way to avoiding specks and blemishes that the eye cannot detect.
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Estoy_Listo in Question about painting and staining   
    What Canute said. Stain penetrates the wood, so if shellac seals the wood, stain can't penetrate it. One of the problems to note about staining is that the stain has to be compatible with whatever coating you apply over it, as well. 
     
    I don't want to start a big controversy here, but I can't resist offering my two cents' worth. I'm not a fan of staining on models. There are some times when it might be indicated, on spars, perhaps, or possibly laid decks, but the simple fact is that the real purpose of stain is to make one wood look like another and, like most faux finishes, it may come close, but never hits the mark completely. Stain enhances the figuring of some woods, which is good for furniture, but since there aren't any woods that have grain features that are to the scale of most any model, enhancing the grain of wood on a model is the last thing a modeler should want to do. Some like to portray their models "au natural," without any paint. This style best exhibits the exact construction features of the prototype and the skill of the modeler, with each faying surface highlighted in black and every fastening in its proper place. In that case, the best approach is to use a fine finish wood species that serves the purpose and looks well clearly sealed or lightly oiled or waxed. If it's the beauty of bare wood you want, there's so little wood in a model that there's no reason not to buy the good stuff and show it off. Staining basswood is like trying to polish a turd.
     
    And I'll mention in passing that "wipe on poly" is a rip off. It's just polyurethane varnish that's been thinned, canned, and marketed to consumers who don't know the difference. Thinner is relatively cheap. Buying thinned varnish and paint for the same price as the thick stuff is a waste of money. Thin your coatings yourself and save a bundle.
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ryland Craze in Tips on rigging small ships   
    What you are asking about are called "bolsters." (See diagram below.) They are simply pieces of wood fastened to the side of the mast which keep the strop from sliding down the mast. You should fashion them from wood and glue them to the mast where you want them, but then drill two or three small holes through the bolster and into the mast and glue small wooden pegs (made with a draw plate) into the holes and sand the top of the peg flush with the face of the bolster, or, alternately, glue a brass pin in the drilled hole, set slightly deeper than the face of the bolster, and fill the top of the hole with a bit of putty and sand fair with the face of the bolster. The pins are necessary to make sure the bolster will be able to stand the load when the rigging is under tension.  Glue alone may not be sufficiently strong to do so. The strops are made up separate from the mast "on the bench" and then installed by sliding them over the top of the mast and down onto the bolster when the mast is rigged. This will require your planning the sequence of setting up the standing rigging so you can get the shrouds and stays over the mast in the correct order. It's generally easiest to rig as much of a mast or spar "on the bench" before installing it on the model, because it is far more difficult to do the work if one has to do so when the mast is erected.
     
     


     
     
    Your kit may have provided the eye-bolts you have pictured on the mast about. The pictured eye-bolts are are grossly over-sized and out of scale. If your kit's eye-bolts are out of scale, as is often the case with kit parts, I would urge you to replace them with eye-bolts that are properly scaled. The ones pictured are at least two or three times as large as they ought to be. They also lack mast bands. (See diagrams, lower left, above.) In real life, these eyes would be part of a metal band set around the mast, not eye-bolts simply screwed into the mast. The mast band is a much stronger fitting. Mast bands can be simulated in modeling by gluing a thin strip of black paper around the mast, then drilling holes through the paper band and into the mast and gluing the eyes into those holes.
     
    This video on making your own eye-bolts may be helpful to you.
     
     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Question about painting and staining   
    In getting a good painted finish, the first coat is sacrificial.  Regardless of how well you sand, the first opaque coat will turn up blemishes that must be repaired.  For reasons that I cannot understand, the eye fails to pick them up on sanded bare wood.
     
    It can, therefore, make sense to apply a coat of paint as soon as you are convinced that the hull has been properly sanded/ faired.  Waiting until the model is more finished risks damaging fragile parts.
     
    Roger
     
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in PBR Mark 1 River Patrol Boat by Thistle17 - FINISHED - Scale 1:6 - Model Shipwright Guild WNY   
    For many years, the Navy was managed by the “Bureau System.”  Up until 1966 ship construction involved at least two bureaus- The Bureau of Ships and the Bureau of Ordnance, and like many bureaucratic organizations each defended their turf.
     
    In 1966, the bureaus were reorganized into commands, the Bureau of Ships becoming the Naval Ships Systems Command, but the general idea stayed the same.  Each organization involved in designing a ship worked under a formal document defining their area of responsibility.  Our slang term for this was the “ball definer,” in other words, “Who’se  got the ball.”
     
    This organizational approach would have affected the Navy’s filing system and the information appearing on their drawings.  If NAVSHIPS built the gun tub and NAVORD outfitted it details would be shown on drawings produced by two different organizations.
     
    Roger
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from JpR62 in Tips on rigging small ships   
    What you are asking about are called "bolsters." (See diagram below.) They are simply pieces of wood fastened to the side of the mast which keep the strop from sliding down the mast. You should fashion them from wood and glue them to the mast where you want them, but then drill two or three small holes through the bolster and into the mast and glue small wooden pegs (made with a draw plate) into the holes and sand the top of the peg flush with the face of the bolster, or, alternately, glue a brass pin in the drilled hole, set slightly deeper than the face of the bolster, and fill the top of the hole with a bit of putty and sand fair with the face of the bolster. The pins are necessary to make sure the bolster will be able to stand the load when the rigging is under tension.  Glue alone may not be sufficiently strong to do so. The strops are made up separate from the mast "on the bench" and then installed by sliding them over the top of the mast and down onto the bolster when the mast is rigged. This will require your planning the sequence of setting up the standing rigging so you can get the shrouds and stays over the mast in the correct order. It's generally easiest to rig as much of a mast or spar "on the bench" before installing it on the model, because it is far more difficult to do the work if one has to do so when the mast is erected.
     
     


     
     
    Your kit may have provided the eye-bolts you have pictured on the mast about. The pictured eye-bolts are are grossly over-sized and out of scale. If your kit's eye-bolts are out of scale, as is often the case with kit parts, I would urge you to replace them with eye-bolts that are properly scaled. The ones pictured are at least two or three times as large as they ought to be. They also lack mast bands. (See diagrams, lower left, above.) In real life, these eyes would be part of a metal band set around the mast, not eye-bolts simply screwed into the mast. The mast band is a much stronger fitting. Mast bands can be simulated in modeling by gluing a thin strip of black paper around the mast, then drilling holes through the paper band and into the mast and gluing the eyes into those holes.
     
    This video on making your own eye-bolts may be helpful to you.
     
     
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Richvee in Tips on rigging small ships   
    What you are asking about are called "bolsters." (See diagram below.) They are simply pieces of wood fastened to the side of the mast which keep the strop from sliding down the mast. You should fashion them from wood and glue them to the mast where you want them, but then drill two or three small holes through the bolster and into the mast and glue small wooden pegs (made with a draw plate) into the holes and sand the top of the peg flush with the face of the bolster, or, alternately, glue a brass pin in the drilled hole, set slightly deeper than the face of the bolster, and fill the top of the hole with a bit of putty and sand fair with the face of the bolster. The pins are necessary to make sure the bolster will be able to stand the load when the rigging is under tension.  Glue alone may not be sufficiently strong to do so. The strops are made up separate from the mast "on the bench" and then installed by sliding them over the top of the mast and down onto the bolster when the mast is rigged. This will require your planning the sequence of setting up the standing rigging so you can get the shrouds and stays over the mast in the correct order. It's generally easiest to rig as much of a mast or spar "on the bench" before installing it on the model, because it is far more difficult to do the work if one has to do so when the mast is erected.
     
     


     
     
    Your kit may have provided the eye-bolts you have pictured on the mast about. The pictured eye-bolts are are grossly over-sized and out of scale. If your kit's eye-bolts are out of scale, as is often the case with kit parts, I would urge you to replace them with eye-bolts that are properly scaled. The ones pictured are at least two or three times as large as they ought to be. They also lack mast bands. (See diagrams, lower left, above.) In real life, these eyes would be part of a metal band set around the mast, not eye-bolts simply screwed into the mast. The mast band is a much stronger fitting. Mast bands can be simulated in modeling by gluing a thin strip of black paper around the mast, then drilling holes through the paper band and into the mast and gluing the eyes into those holes.
     
    This video on making your own eye-bolts may be helpful to you.
     
     
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Question about painting and staining   
    What Canute said. Stain penetrates the wood, so if shellac seals the wood, stain can't penetrate it. One of the problems to note about staining is that the stain has to be compatible with whatever coating you apply over it, as well. 
     
    I don't want to start a big controversy here, but I can't resist offering my two cents' worth. I'm not a fan of staining on models. There are some times when it might be indicated, on spars, perhaps, or possibly laid decks, but the simple fact is that the real purpose of stain is to make one wood look like another and, like most faux finishes, it may come close, but never hits the mark completely. Stain enhances the figuring of some woods, which is good for furniture, but since there aren't any woods that have grain features that are to the scale of most any model, enhancing the grain of wood on a model is the last thing a modeler should want to do. Some like to portray their models "au natural," without any paint. This style best exhibits the exact construction features of the prototype and the skill of the modeler, with each faying surface highlighted in black and every fastening in its proper place. In that case, the best approach is to use a fine finish wood species that serves the purpose and looks well clearly sealed or lightly oiled or waxed. If it's the beauty of bare wood you want, there's so little wood in a model that there's no reason not to buy the good stuff and show it off. Staining basswood is like trying to polish a turd.
     
    And I'll mention in passing that "wipe on poly" is a rip off. It's just polyurethane varnish that's been thinned, canned, and marketed to consumers who don't know the difference. Thinner is relatively cheap. Buying thinned varnish and paint for the same price as the thick stuff is a waste of money. Thin your coatings yourself and save a bundle.
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in SS President Cleveland by LindsayD - Scale 1:15 - RESTORATION   
    That's a treasure! Photos, please!
     
    I'd love to hear the story of how you came by it.
     
    Is it the large "builder's model" or one of the models made for use in the travel agents' office windows? ("Travel agencies..." now there's another trade that the internet has pretty well obsolesced into oblivion.)
     
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Jaager in Question about painting and staining   
    What Canute said. Stain penetrates the wood, so if shellac seals the wood, stain can't penetrate it. One of the problems to note about staining is that the stain has to be compatible with whatever coating you apply over it, as well. 
     
    I don't want to start a big controversy here, but I can't resist offering my two cents' worth. I'm not a fan of staining on models. There are some times when it might be indicated, on spars, perhaps, or possibly laid decks, but the simple fact is that the real purpose of stain is to make one wood look like another and, like most faux finishes, it may come close, but never hits the mark completely. Stain enhances the figuring of some woods, which is good for furniture, but since there aren't any woods that have grain features that are to the scale of most any model, enhancing the grain of wood on a model is the last thing a modeler should want to do. Some like to portray their models "au natural," without any paint. This style best exhibits the exact construction features of the prototype and the skill of the modeler, with each faying surface highlighted in black and every fastening in its proper place. In that case, the best approach is to use a fine finish wood species that serves the purpose and looks well clearly sealed or lightly oiled or waxed. If it's the beauty of bare wood you want, there's so little wood in a model that there's no reason not to buy the good stuff and show it off. Staining basswood is like trying to polish a turd.
     
    And I'll mention in passing that "wipe on poly" is a rip off. It's just polyurethane varnish that's been thinned, canned, and marketed to consumers who don't know the difference. Thinner is relatively cheap. Buying thinned varnish and paint for the same price as the thick stuff is a waste of money. Thin your coatings yourself and save a bundle.
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Glomar in Question about painting and staining   
    Just what Thunder said. Today's bottled modeling paints, particularly the acrylic "water based" types, are the result of complex chemistry and there is a lot that can go wrong with them, especially when they are combined with other types and brands. Acrylic water based paint often does not adhere well, if at all, over oil based paints, while oil based paints will adhere to acrylics. Under coats are sometimes incompatible with finish coats. While dried pigment generally appears darker than wet pigment, colors may, upon drying, appear different in unanticipated ways. If paint ages in the bottle, it sometimes won't perform as expected. Using the wrong thinner or conditioner, which works for one brand and not another can cause problems, too.  A common malfunction occurs when paint doesn't dry, or in the case of acrylics, "cure" fully and remains tacky to the touch. The only cure for this problem is to remove the paint completely and start over. That's a terrible, nasty, messy job. You don't want to have to go there ever. 
     
    So, the moral of the story, at least until you are completely certain and comfortable with a particular coating, is to test it first on a piece of scrap material or, as the professional painters call them, a "chip." That "paint chip" gives you a preview of how that paint will perform. If it doesn't perform as you require on the chip, you've lost nothing. On the model, it's another matter entirely. These chips are also worth saving, with any helpful information written on the back with a Sharpie pen, such as the brand and color and they type of thinner and/or conditioner used. Other colors can be applied over a section of a chip as well, and this will provide information on how well that color "covers" and what it will look like when dried on top of the earlier coat. This practice comes in very handy if and when you graduate to painting with an airbrush, which is more demanding of properly conditioned paint than brushes are.
     
    I'll pass on writing an entire dissertation here on conditioning paint, but suffice it to say that it is a rare bottle of paint that contains paint ready for use "right out of the bottle" or can. Environmental factors such as temperature and humidity affect the behavior of paint to greater or lesser degrees depending upon the paint, oil or water based. (You will probably end up preferring one or the other. I prefer oil based paints and often use fine arts artists' oil paints sold in "toothpaste" tubes from art supply stores, which I condition to my own taste. Your mileage may vary. "Dance with the gal ya brought.") These conditioners create the characteristics of the paint. Thinners simply are solvents (or water or alcohol with water based acrylics) that make the paint thinner. Thinners can also contribute to the "flattening" of glossy paint, a desired effect for models, which should not be finished glossy because gloss is out of scale. "Flatteners" will also flatten glossy paint. The more you add, the flatter the paint gets. Other conditioners will improve the "flow" of the paint, basically slowing its drying time, so a brush won't "drag" and a "wet edge" can be maintained more easily. Paint that "flows" well will also "lay down" easily and brush strokes will disappear as the paint "levels." Too much, on the other hand, can cause paint to sag and create drips and "curtains." Driers, often sold as "Japan Drier" in the case of oil paints, contain heavy metals which speed the drying of the paint, the opposite of conditioners that improve flow. On hot days with low humidity, you will add conditioners to slow the rate of drying, while on cold days with high humidity, you'll add conditioners to speed up drying. These skills become even more important when airbrushing and spray painting because the atomized sprayed paint has to hit the piece before the solvents kick off, and then lay down before drying to achieve a perfectly smooth finish, yet not be so thin or retarded (slowed down) that they run or "curtain" after being sprayed. (And if you are of a mind to spray paint, forget the rattle cans and go for an airbrush. It will pay for itself over the rattle cans, which always seem to crap out while they're half full and never really give the same control or results.)
     
    You need to also remember that wood has to be sealed before painting so the paint won't soak into the wood and produce an uneven coating. I use shellac for this because it is easy to work with, dries fast, is economical, soaks into the bare wood well, is compatible with all other coatings when dry, and sands very nicely to a very fine smooth finish. 
     
    This may all sound a bit overwhelming at first, but it's not rocket science. If you're lucky, you'll find somebody who can show you how it's done and you'll be on your way. It's a lot easier to learn by watching somebody do it than it is to learn it out of a book. Experiment a little and get the hang of it, but, most importantly, practice and learn on scrap pieces before starting to slap paint on a model you've spent a lot of time on. That will save you a lot of grief. 
     
    This fellow seems to have a pretty good video on the subject.painting miniatures. 
     
     
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Steven Brand in Question about painting and staining   
    When and what to paint really depends upon the progress of the build. Generally, apply finish coatings when it is easiest to do so. It's surely easier to paint separate parts and then secure them to the model if that avoids having to mask or carefully cut in edges. If a hull has a lot of "attachments," it's often much easier to finish the overall hull coatings first and then add the attachments because you'll be sanding "wide open spaces" and not having to sand around edges and corners (which you don't want to round off with sandpaper, anyhow.) Bottom line, "use your own judgment."
     
    As for protecting finished work, here again, common sense prevails and discovering solutions is part of the joy of the hobby. I often find using those foam insulating split tubes they sell at the hardware store to keep pipes from freezing or to insulate hot water pipes under houses is a good way to protect finishes during construction. They can be cut up in sections and several sections taped together at the ends with duct tape to form a "cradle" that will hold a model hull upright and secure without marring the finish on the hull.
     
    You will often read that parts should best not be glued to finish coated surfaces and that's generally sound advice. That said, however, many of us hew to the traditional US Navy contract ship model "mil-spec" requirements and always mechanically fasten parts on our models, most often with a peg glued into a drilled hole or similar. This practice renders the "don't glue to painted surfaces" advise irrelevant and also eliminates most all  problems with adhesives letting go.
     
    Finish coatings are an essential feature of a well done model and developing the skills necessary to do a good job does present something of a learning curve, even for a somewhat experienced painter. You'd do well to try to find some instructional videos on the subject and study up on it before you start painting your model. YouTube is full of videos on painting models. Don't just look for ship models. Some of the best are done by the military equipment modelers and the fantasy gaming figure modelers. Painting any miniature is all pretty much the same, but it isn't the same as painting a house!
     
    Finally, one bit of advice that few new painters learn out the easy way. Always try out every coating you are going to use on a similar surface other than your model and on the test piece determine if the paint's consistency, "leveling ability,"  and drying time, etc., are as you intend them to be. If we had a dime for every post that started, "I've waited a couple of days after painting my hull and it's still all sticky and not dry..." we'd be rich people today. Learn to condition your paint and always test it first on a scrap piece of material ! (And save those scraps in case you want to paint over it later, too. That's the way to make sure that a later coat is compatible with the earlier one ! )
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to paul moore in SS President Cleveland by LindsayD - Scale 1:15 - RESTORATION   
    I have the large scale model that was in the San Francisco American President Line Sales office.  If you are till working on this and would like photos of that let me know.
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to MadDogMcQ in How to deal with grainy wood   
    Hi all,
    I've just started a Panart Vaporetto and have noticed in other folk's builds that the seats inside the boat look incredibly grainy once they're painted and I would like to avoid the same finish. Is there some sort of "stopper" I could use to flatten or infill that grain prior to painting?
     

     
    I'm not trying to go over the top (I was going to say overboard but maybe that's a censored word around here 😂), but considering that these bench-seats will be so easy to work on, I thought it might be worth paying them more attention.
     
     
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Canute in Question about painting and staining   
    Since shellac seals the wood, stain it before sealing it. The glues we use also seal the wood, so again, stain beforehand. Test your stains on spare pieces of wood to see if the results are what you expect. The basswood used in some kits stains unevenly, so you may need a conditioner before staining. Minwax makes such a product.
     
    Have fun in your build.
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Estoy_Listo in Question about painting and staining   
    Just what Thunder said. Today's bottled modeling paints, particularly the acrylic "water based" types, are the result of complex chemistry and there is a lot that can go wrong with them, especially when they are combined with other types and brands. Acrylic water based paint often does not adhere well, if at all, over oil based paints, while oil based paints will adhere to acrylics. Under coats are sometimes incompatible with finish coats. While dried pigment generally appears darker than wet pigment, colors may, upon drying, appear different in unanticipated ways. If paint ages in the bottle, it sometimes won't perform as expected. Using the wrong thinner or conditioner, which works for one brand and not another can cause problems, too.  A common malfunction occurs when paint doesn't dry, or in the case of acrylics, "cure" fully and remains tacky to the touch. The only cure for this problem is to remove the paint completely and start over. That's a terrible, nasty, messy job. You don't want to have to go there ever. 
     
    So, the moral of the story, at least until you are completely certain and comfortable with a particular coating, is to test it first on a piece of scrap material or, as the professional painters call them, a "chip." That "paint chip" gives you a preview of how that paint will perform. If it doesn't perform as you require on the chip, you've lost nothing. On the model, it's another matter entirely. These chips are also worth saving, with any helpful information written on the back with a Sharpie pen, such as the brand and color and they type of thinner and/or conditioner used. Other colors can be applied over a section of a chip as well, and this will provide information on how well that color "covers" and what it will look like when dried on top of the earlier coat. This practice comes in very handy if and when you graduate to painting with an airbrush, which is more demanding of properly conditioned paint than brushes are.
     
    I'll pass on writing an entire dissertation here on conditioning paint, but suffice it to say that it is a rare bottle of paint that contains paint ready for use "right out of the bottle" or can. Environmental factors such as temperature and humidity affect the behavior of paint to greater or lesser degrees depending upon the paint, oil or water based. (You will probably end up preferring one or the other. I prefer oil based paints and often use fine arts artists' oil paints sold in "toothpaste" tubes from art supply stores, which I condition to my own taste. Your mileage may vary. "Dance with the gal ya brought.") These conditioners create the characteristics of the paint. Thinners simply are solvents (or water or alcohol with water based acrylics) that make the paint thinner. Thinners can also contribute to the "flattening" of glossy paint, a desired effect for models, which should not be finished glossy because gloss is out of scale. "Flatteners" will also flatten glossy paint. The more you add, the flatter the paint gets. Other conditioners will improve the "flow" of the paint, basically slowing its drying time, so a brush won't "drag" and a "wet edge" can be maintained more easily. Paint that "flows" well will also "lay down" easily and brush strokes will disappear as the paint "levels." Too much, on the other hand, can cause paint to sag and create drips and "curtains." Driers, often sold as "Japan Drier" in the case of oil paints, contain heavy metals which speed the drying of the paint, the opposite of conditioners that improve flow. On hot days with low humidity, you will add conditioners to slow the rate of drying, while on cold days with high humidity, you'll add conditioners to speed up drying. These skills become even more important when airbrushing and spray painting because the atomized sprayed paint has to hit the piece before the solvents kick off, and then lay down before drying to achieve a perfectly smooth finish, yet not be so thin or retarded (slowed down) that they run or "curtain" after being sprayed. (And if you are of a mind to spray paint, forget the rattle cans and go for an airbrush. It will pay for itself over the rattle cans, which always seem to crap out while they're half full and never really give the same control or results.)
     
    You need to also remember that wood has to be sealed before painting so the paint won't soak into the wood and produce an uneven coating. I use shellac for this because it is easy to work with, dries fast, is economical, soaks into the bare wood well, is compatible with all other coatings when dry, and sands very nicely to a very fine smooth finish. 
     
    This may all sound a bit overwhelming at first, but it's not rocket science. If you're lucky, you'll find somebody who can show you how it's done and you'll be on your way. It's a lot easier to learn by watching somebody do it than it is to learn it out of a book. Experiment a little and get the hang of it, but, most importantly, practice and learn on scrap pieces before starting to slap paint on a model you've spent a lot of time on. That will save you a lot of grief. 
     
    This fellow seems to have a pretty good video on the subject.painting miniatures. 
     
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from closehaul in Question about painting and staining   
    When and what to paint really depends upon the progress of the build. Generally, apply finish coatings when it is easiest to do so. It's surely easier to paint separate parts and then secure them to the model if that avoids having to mask or carefully cut in edges. If a hull has a lot of "attachments," it's often much easier to finish the overall hull coatings first and then add the attachments because you'll be sanding "wide open spaces" and not having to sand around edges and corners (which you don't want to round off with sandpaper, anyhow.) Bottom line, "use your own judgment."
     
    As for protecting finished work, here again, common sense prevails and discovering solutions is part of the joy of the hobby. I often find using those foam insulating split tubes they sell at the hardware store to keep pipes from freezing or to insulate hot water pipes under houses is a good way to protect finishes during construction. They can be cut up in sections and several sections taped together at the ends with duct tape to form a "cradle" that will hold a model hull upright and secure without marring the finish on the hull.
     
    You will often read that parts should best not be glued to finish coated surfaces and that's generally sound advice. That said, however, many of us hew to the traditional US Navy contract ship model "mil-spec" requirements and always mechanically fasten parts on our models, most often with a peg glued into a drilled hole or similar. This practice renders the "don't glue to painted surfaces" advise irrelevant and also eliminates most all  problems with adhesives letting go.
     
    Finish coatings are an essential feature of a well done model and developing the skills necessary to do a good job does present something of a learning curve, even for a somewhat experienced painter. You'd do well to try to find some instructional videos on the subject and study up on it before you start painting your model. YouTube is full of videos on painting models. Don't just look for ship models. Some of the best are done by the military equipment modelers and the fantasy gaming figure modelers. Painting any miniature is all pretty much the same, but it isn't the same as painting a house!
     
    Finally, one bit of advice that few new painters learn out the easy way. Always try out every coating you are going to use on a similar surface other than your model and on the test piece determine if the paint's consistency, "leveling ability,"  and drying time, etc., are as you intend them to be. If we had a dime for every post that started, "I've waited a couple of days after painting my hull and it's still all sticky and not dry..." we'd be rich people today. Learn to condition your paint and always test it first on a scrap piece of material ! (And save those scraps in case you want to paint over it later, too. That's the way to make sure that a later coat is compatible with the earlier one ! )
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from closehaul in Question about painting and staining   
    Just what Thunder said. Today's bottled modeling paints, particularly the acrylic "water based" types, are the result of complex chemistry and there is a lot that can go wrong with them, especially when they are combined with other types and brands. Acrylic water based paint often does not adhere well, if at all, over oil based paints, while oil based paints will adhere to acrylics. Under coats are sometimes incompatible with finish coats. While dried pigment generally appears darker than wet pigment, colors may, upon drying, appear different in unanticipated ways. If paint ages in the bottle, it sometimes won't perform as expected. Using the wrong thinner or conditioner, which works for one brand and not another can cause problems, too.  A common malfunction occurs when paint doesn't dry, or in the case of acrylics, "cure" fully and remains tacky to the touch. The only cure for this problem is to remove the paint completely and start over. That's a terrible, nasty, messy job. You don't want to have to go there ever. 
     
    So, the moral of the story, at least until you are completely certain and comfortable with a particular coating, is to test it first on a piece of scrap material or, as the professional painters call them, a "chip." That "paint chip" gives you a preview of how that paint will perform. If it doesn't perform as you require on the chip, you've lost nothing. On the model, it's another matter entirely. These chips are also worth saving, with any helpful information written on the back with a Sharpie pen, such as the brand and color and they type of thinner and/or conditioner used. Other colors can be applied over a section of a chip as well, and this will provide information on how well that color "covers" and what it will look like when dried on top of the earlier coat. This practice comes in very handy if and when you graduate to painting with an airbrush, which is more demanding of properly conditioned paint than brushes are.
     
    I'll pass on writing an entire dissertation here on conditioning paint, but suffice it to say that it is a rare bottle of paint that contains paint ready for use "right out of the bottle" or can. Environmental factors such as temperature and humidity affect the behavior of paint to greater or lesser degrees depending upon the paint, oil or water based. (You will probably end up preferring one or the other. I prefer oil based paints and often use fine arts artists' oil paints sold in "toothpaste" tubes from art supply stores, which I condition to my own taste. Your mileage may vary. "Dance with the gal ya brought.") These conditioners create the characteristics of the paint. Thinners simply are solvents (or water or alcohol with water based acrylics) that make the paint thinner. Thinners can also contribute to the "flattening" of glossy paint, a desired effect for models, which should not be finished glossy because gloss is out of scale. "Flatteners" will also flatten glossy paint. The more you add, the flatter the paint gets. Other conditioners will improve the "flow" of the paint, basically slowing its drying time, so a brush won't "drag" and a "wet edge" can be maintained more easily. Paint that "flows" well will also "lay down" easily and brush strokes will disappear as the paint "levels." Too much, on the other hand, can cause paint to sag and create drips and "curtains." Driers, often sold as "Japan Drier" in the case of oil paints, contain heavy metals which speed the drying of the paint, the opposite of conditioners that improve flow. On hot days with low humidity, you will add conditioners to slow the rate of drying, while on cold days with high humidity, you'll add conditioners to speed up drying. These skills become even more important when airbrushing and spray painting because the atomized sprayed paint has to hit the piece before the solvents kick off, and then lay down before drying to achieve a perfectly smooth finish, yet not be so thin or retarded (slowed down) that they run or "curtain" after being sprayed. (And if you are of a mind to spray paint, forget the rattle cans and go for an airbrush. It will pay for itself over the rattle cans, which always seem to crap out while they're half full and never really give the same control or results.)
     
    You need to also remember that wood has to be sealed before painting so the paint won't soak into the wood and produce an uneven coating. I use shellac for this because it is easy to work with, dries fast, is economical, soaks into the bare wood well, is compatible with all other coatings when dry, and sands very nicely to a very fine smooth finish. 
     
    This may all sound a bit overwhelming at first, but it's not rocket science. If you're lucky, you'll find somebody who can show you how it's done and you'll be on your way. It's a lot easier to learn by watching somebody do it than it is to learn it out of a book. Experiment a little and get the hang of it, but, most importantly, practice and learn on scrap pieces before starting to slap paint on a model you've spent a lot of time on. That will save you a lot of grief. 
     
    This fellow seems to have a pretty good video on the subject.painting miniatures. 
     
     
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Thunder in Question about painting and staining   
    Many times people have made the above quote because they have failed to test the paint on some scrap material or small area. Oils in some woods stop the paint setting. Some paint is designed for plastic and this causes the above.
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to tomsimon in Question about painting and staining   
    Hi Bob: Thank you for your narrative. If you are able, would you, please, provide details about, the quote above. I know there is sage advice in there, but I can’t seem to decipher. Thank you. 
     
     
×
×
  • Create New...