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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to wefalck in Miranda 1888 by goatfarmer11 - 1:12 scale - 42 foot Steam Launch   
    Denis, I don't think 'scratchbuilding' is so much more complicated than working with a kit. It's question of doing things systematically.
     
    Didn't the proposal of bread-and-butter construction come up in earlier discussions? One of us may have mentioned it as a method for making a core from which to take an empty hull using GRP. It can be relatively materials- and cost-friendly, as one can use insulation foam-board for the core that is to be discarded. Fairing the core between the template stations can be done by eye. However, you have to learn working with glassfibre mats and polyester resin.
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Coyote_6 in Ship’s Anchor Tie off   
    And for additional points in the game of nautical Trivial Pursuit, the "nips" of small line tying the messenger and cable together were progressively untied and moved as the cable was hauled aboard by the messenger. This menial task was assigned to the ship's boys, hence the common usage of the term "little nippers" to affectionately describe young boys.  
     

  3. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Ship’s Anchor Tie off   
    And for additional points in the game of nautical Trivial Pursuit, the "nips" of small line tying the messenger and cable together were progressively untied and moved as the cable was hauled aboard by the messenger. This menial task was assigned to the ship's boys, hence the common usage of the term "little nippers" to affectionately describe young boys.  
     

  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Miranda 1888 by goatfarmer11 - 1:12 scale - 42 foot Steam Launch   
    Live steam models are a favorite of mine. I had the pleasure of restoring a near-century old live steam model about five feet long years ago. It's on public static display now and I can't get to it to record the details photographically. Perhaps they will send it back for servicing at some point and I will get the chance. Back before digital photography and cell phone cameras, we just didn't take as many photos as we do today.
     
    Would you be up for starting over a fifth time?   I'm sorry I didn't catch this build log earlier. The approaches you've taken, considering the challenges of the plans you have in hand, would be difficult to overcome for any builder without redrawing the plans in a form suitable for modeling purposes, which, it seems, you're discovering require development of a suitable number of frames. Building an "as built" fully-framed hull is always a daunting task and I expect you will admit that your attempts haven't been all that rewarding so far. To obtain a fairly planked hull requires a suitable number of frames which are perfectly shaped if the desired result is to be obtained. Frankly, the "plank on bulkhead and plank on frame construction methods now popular with ship model kit manufacturers are the result of market driven pressures. Some want to build fully-framed models with structures identical to the prototype or with unplanked hulls below the waterline showing stylized framing for aesthetic reasons, but primarily, we see the plank on bulkhead and plank on frame kit models because it is a lot easier and less expensive for manufacturers to pack and instruction booklet, some fittings, a bunch of stripwood, and some laser-cut sheets of thin plywood into a flat box with an instruction manual than to provide a solid hull roughed out from a big heavy block of wood. It's the "IKEA method" of "knocked down" hull construction. Consequently, we don't hear about solid hull construction so much anymore when it's really the quickest way to get the job done (and even if a "planked" varnished hull is desired, since the bread and butter hull can easily be planked with thin planking stock of high quality wood.)
     
    It's your model and you are free to build it as you wish, but since you asked for input, I will offer it. The steam launch hull at the height of its development is a rather generic shape. You can find many examples of lines drawings for steam launches published in easily accessible books and perhaps even online. It's easy enough to scale a hull drawing up or down to the size desired using copying technology. (Large scale architectural copy machines available from copy stores are the best option.) If you can't get a complete lines drawing of this particular launch, it should be very easy to find a set for another launch hull that will be so close in appearance that nobody will be the wiser if another set you find is used. You will, however, find it of great value to learn something of lofting and drawing so you can make minor adjustments if you wish. Alan Vaiteses' book, Lofting,' is an excellent resource in this regard.
     
    If you haven't obtained a copy already, I strongly recommend Weston Farmer's From My Old Boatshop, available from Elliot Bay Steam Launch Co. (From My Old Boat Shop — Elliott Bay Steam Launch: New Website Under Construction) This book has an extensive treatment of steam launch hull form design and over fifty lines drawings with tables of offsets for building, or modeling, steam launches. Elliot Bay is one of the leading providers of steam launch hulls and steam plants in the U.S.
     
    The construction of a hull for a live steam launch is a thing that cries out for a "bread and butter" stacked hull construction. To describe this very briefly, since the technique is explained in any number of modeling books, (see the article linked below) the hull is built by cutting out from plank stock an inch or so thick the shapes of the waterlines of the hull. (The waterlines are easily developed from the lines drawings and drawn full size using a sprung batten and weights.) These are cut in halves sawn simultaneously, with two planks stacked on top of each other, such that one complete waterline-edged shape for each waterline is yielded by flipping one of the two halves cut together over and butting it up against its twin. The halves are also cut out inboard of the waterline so the center of the waterline shape is thereby made hollow. The stack of hollowed waterline shapes are glued together and the resulting shape is a hollowed hull with "stepped" sides in the shape of the successive waterline shapes in the stack. The "steps" are shaved off with a drawknife or chisel or with a shaping rasp bit on a Dremel tool or the like and, using a negative pattern of the station body shapes as a pattern to check as the shaping is done, and with final fairing sanding, a perfectly fair and correctly shaped hollow hull is created. If interior framing must be shown, the interior of the hull can be shaped in similar fashion and the frames glued in place to appear from an inboard view as if the hull is fully framed and planked. In the end, what you have is a completely watertight monocoque hull which needs only sealing (penetrating epoxy sealer is recommended) and painting (a good enamel paint is recommended.) There is no need to fiddle with the mess of plastic resin sheathing and months of tedious framing and planking which, at present, at least, isn't going well and doesn't promise to get any easier. There is nothing to be gained by a framed and planked hull. It isn't a static model that will be displayed without planking below the waterline ("Admiralty board style") so what's the point of planking on bulkheads or frames, anyway? This "bread and butter" hull construction method is what has been predominantly employed in all of the finest models which do not have open framing below the waterline. There's just no need to make yourself crazy building what will be a less-suitable hull that is far more complicated to build. 
     
    Unless you already have very accurate plans for your steam plant, and radio control system, I would urge you to start by finding some that identify the exact size of all of those elements. There are many variables, beginning with the type of fuel you will be using and how you will provide for the operation of the steam plant via RC actuators. You will have to plan the layout of the steam plant and the radio control equipment inside the hull and this has to be done before anything else to ensure that you don't end up without enough room for everything inside the hull. RC battery packs, gas or liquid fuel tanks, your boiler, and water tanks will take up a fair amount of space and you will have to provide access to all of it by designing removeable deck sections.
     
    I realize you've envisioned building a planked hull in a number of ways, and I'm suggesting you throw all that out and start over in a way that you may not have considered before (or you did consider and discarded for reasons of your own,) but I'm looking a you "doing it the hard way" and creating a tremendous amount of unnecessary work for yourself building a hull that may well not satisfy your ambitions in the end. 
     
    Just sayin.' I in no way want to dissuade you from building this fascinating project and I encourage you to go for it. I'm just offering a suggestion that, from all indications, will save you a huge amount of work and give you a stronger and more suitable hull in the end.
     
    Here is an excellent reprint from Model Shipwright explaining all anybody would need to know to build a bread and butter hull. Building a Bread-and-Butter Solid Hull Ship Model – The Model Shipwright
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Taper of the keel, stem, knee of the head and stern post   
    And for some of us, the passion is the hobby!    
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ian_Grant in Miranda 1888 by goatfarmer11 - 1:12 scale - 42 foot Steam Launch   
    Live steam models are a favorite of mine. I had the pleasure of restoring a near-century old live steam model about five feet long years ago. It's on public static display now and I can't get to it to record the details photographically. Perhaps they will send it back for servicing at some point and I will get the chance. Back before digital photography and cell phone cameras, we just didn't take as many photos as we do today.
     
    Would you be up for starting over a fifth time?   I'm sorry I didn't catch this build log earlier. The approaches you've taken, considering the challenges of the plans you have in hand, would be difficult to overcome for any builder without redrawing the plans in a form suitable for modeling purposes, which, it seems, you're discovering require development of a suitable number of frames. Building an "as built" fully-framed hull is always a daunting task and I expect you will admit that your attempts haven't been all that rewarding so far. To obtain a fairly planked hull requires a suitable number of frames which are perfectly shaped if the desired result is to be obtained. Frankly, the "plank on bulkhead and plank on frame construction methods now popular with ship model kit manufacturers are the result of market driven pressures. Some want to build fully-framed models with structures identical to the prototype or with unplanked hulls below the waterline showing stylized framing for aesthetic reasons, but primarily, we see the plank on bulkhead and plank on frame kit models because it is a lot easier and less expensive for manufacturers to pack and instruction booklet, some fittings, a bunch of stripwood, and some laser-cut sheets of thin plywood into a flat box with an instruction manual than to provide a solid hull roughed out from a big heavy block of wood. It's the "IKEA method" of "knocked down" hull construction. Consequently, we don't hear about solid hull construction so much anymore when it's really the quickest way to get the job done (and even if a "planked" varnished hull is desired, since the bread and butter hull can easily be planked with thin planking stock of high quality wood.)
     
    It's your model and you are free to build it as you wish, but since you asked for input, I will offer it. The steam launch hull at the height of its development is a rather generic shape. You can find many examples of lines drawings for steam launches published in easily accessible books and perhaps even online. It's easy enough to scale a hull drawing up or down to the size desired using copying technology. (Large scale architectural copy machines available from copy stores are the best option.) If you can't get a complete lines drawing of this particular launch, it should be very easy to find a set for another launch hull that will be so close in appearance that nobody will be the wiser if another set you find is used. You will, however, find it of great value to learn something of lofting and drawing so you can make minor adjustments if you wish. Alan Vaiteses' book, Lofting,' is an excellent resource in this regard.
     
    If you haven't obtained a copy already, I strongly recommend Weston Farmer's From My Old Boatshop, available from Elliot Bay Steam Launch Co. (From My Old Boat Shop — Elliott Bay Steam Launch: New Website Under Construction) This book has an extensive treatment of steam launch hull form design and over fifty lines drawings with tables of offsets for building, or modeling, steam launches. Elliot Bay is one of the leading providers of steam launch hulls and steam plants in the U.S.
     
    The construction of a hull for a live steam launch is a thing that cries out for a "bread and butter" stacked hull construction. To describe this very briefly, since the technique is explained in any number of modeling books, (see the article linked below) the hull is built by cutting out from plank stock an inch or so thick the shapes of the waterlines of the hull. (The waterlines are easily developed from the lines drawings and drawn full size using a sprung batten and weights.) These are cut in halves sawn simultaneously, with two planks stacked on top of each other, such that one complete waterline-edged shape for each waterline is yielded by flipping one of the two halves cut together over and butting it up against its twin. The halves are also cut out inboard of the waterline so the center of the waterline shape is thereby made hollow. The stack of hollowed waterline shapes are glued together and the resulting shape is a hollowed hull with "stepped" sides in the shape of the successive waterline shapes in the stack. The "steps" are shaved off with a drawknife or chisel or with a shaping rasp bit on a Dremel tool or the like and, using a negative pattern of the station body shapes as a pattern to check as the shaping is done, and with final fairing sanding, a perfectly fair and correctly shaped hollow hull is created. If interior framing must be shown, the interior of the hull can be shaped in similar fashion and the frames glued in place to appear from an inboard view as if the hull is fully framed and planked. In the end, what you have is a completely watertight monocoque hull which needs only sealing (penetrating epoxy sealer is recommended) and painting (a good enamel paint is recommended.) There is no need to fiddle with the mess of plastic resin sheathing and months of tedious framing and planking which, at present, at least, isn't going well and doesn't promise to get any easier. There is nothing to be gained by a framed and planked hull. It isn't a static model that will be displayed without planking below the waterline ("Admiralty board style") so what's the point of planking on bulkheads or frames, anyway? This "bread and butter" hull construction method is what has been predominantly employed in all of the finest models which do not have open framing below the waterline. There's just no need to make yourself crazy building what will be a less-suitable hull that is far more complicated to build. 
     
    Unless you already have very accurate plans for your steam plant, and radio control system, I would urge you to start by finding some that identify the exact size of all of those elements. There are many variables, beginning with the type of fuel you will be using and how you will provide for the operation of the steam plant via RC actuators. You will have to plan the layout of the steam plant and the radio control equipment inside the hull and this has to be done before anything else to ensure that you don't end up without enough room for everything inside the hull. RC battery packs, gas or liquid fuel tanks, your boiler, and water tanks will take up a fair amount of space and you will have to provide access to all of it by designing removeable deck sections.
     
    I realize you've envisioned building a planked hull in a number of ways, and I'm suggesting you throw all that out and start over in a way that you may not have considered before (or you did consider and discarded for reasons of your own,) but I'm looking a you "doing it the hard way" and creating a tremendous amount of unnecessary work for yourself building a hull that may well not satisfy your ambitions in the end. 
     
    Just sayin.' I in no way want to dissuade you from building this fascinating project and I encourage you to go for it. I'm just offering a suggestion that, from all indications, will save you a huge amount of work and give you a stronger and more suitable hull in the end.
     
    Here is an excellent reprint from Model Shipwright explaining all anybody would need to know to build a bread and butter hull. Building a Bread-and-Butter Solid Hull Ship Model – The Model Shipwright
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from popeye2sea in Ship’s Anchor Tie off   
    And for additional points in the game of nautical Trivial Pursuit, the "nips" of small line tying the messenger and cable together were progressively untied and moved as the cable was hauled aboard by the messenger. This menial task was assigned to the ship's boys, hence the common usage of the term "little nippers" to affectionately describe young boys.  
     

  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from druxey in Taper of the keel, stem, knee of the head and stern post   
    And for some of us, the passion is the hobby!    
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to chris watton in Taper of the keel, stem, knee of the head and stern post   
    I did add this on Indy, but really it's only for those who really know what they're doing, and added for completion's sake. But Jim is correct, for those 99.9% of those building from kits, this is no big issue -a and for those 0.01% that want to, can by all means add the taper, ensuring that it does now mess up the figurehead slot.
     
    ETA - Added a pic from my Amati Victory manual I did a decade ago, showing the taper to the rudder designing into the copper PE - so adding taper is by no means a new thing.




  10. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Taper of the keel, stem, knee of the head and stern post   
    Other than the kits designed by Chuck Passaro, do any other kits address the large amount of tapering of the subject parts?   This seems to be very basic design criteria as the dimensions are detailed on the various scantlings sources including the Establishments, Steel, et al. and are significant.  For example the stem tapers about 30% from top to bottom at the keel and the knee of head tapers more than a very noticeable 50% fore and aft from where it meets the stem to the place for the figurehead.    Why is this shaping not done on the parts in other kits, or, at least described in the instructions so the builder can do it themselves if it is a cost factor?   
    Allan
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in How do you make your hull look wet?   
    I'm watching this thread. I can't imagine using anything other than clear gloss, if that. I'd love to see photos of what folks have done to portray "wet." At scale viewing distances, the difference between wet and dry isn't particularly noticeable in my experience. I've spent a lot of time on the water in small craft sailing in relatively close proximity to ships sailing in the shipping lanes on San Francisco Bay and I can't ever remember noticing that some of the hull was particularly shiny because it was wet at the bows or wherever in contrast to higher up on the topsides. 
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from hollowneck in Trademark News   
    The Administrators may wish to add their trademark registration notation to their FaceBook page, as well.
     
    Also, perhaps it's time to send Remco's Model Ship World FaceBook page a "cease and desist" letter. See: (1) Remco's Model Ship World | Facebook
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in How do you make your hull look wet?   
    I'm watching this thread. I can't imagine using anything other than clear gloss, if that. I'd love to see photos of what folks have done to portray "wet." At scale viewing distances, the difference between wet and dry isn't particularly noticeable in my experience. I've spent a lot of time on the water in small craft sailing in relatively close proximity to ships sailing in the shipping lanes on San Francisco Bay and I can't ever remember noticing that some of the hull was particularly shiny because it was wet at the bows or wherever in contrast to higher up on the topsides. 
  14. Thanks!
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Decorative trim/rail   
    Cutting a scroll end to that shape is quite easy if done with a jeweler's saw. Carving the inside scroll relief is not difficult. all it takes is removing some wood to create the relief. You'll probably screw up the first three or four attempts on the first go-round and then get the hang of it. It's not hard. Cut the lines straight down with a razor knife and then remove the wood between the cut defining lines. Also, leave a "tail" or handle on your workpiece from which it can be held when you are working on it. Then you can put it in a vise or otherwise clamp it down and still have two hands free to carve. When the carved piece is finished, cut it from the tail and glue it to the molded strip.
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Decorative trim/rail   
    Cutting a scroll end to that shape is quite easy if done with a jeweler's saw. Carving the inside scroll relief is not difficult. all it takes is removing some wood to create the relief. You'll probably screw up the first three or four attempts on the first go-round and then get the hang of it. It's not hard. Cut the lines straight down with a razor knife and then remove the wood between the cut defining lines. Also, leave a "tail" or handle on your workpiece from which it can be held when you are working on it. Then you can put it in a vise or otherwise clamp it down and still have two hands free to carve. When the carved piece is finished, cut it from the tail and glue it to the molded strip.
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Decorative trim/rail   
    Kudos!!!!!!!! 
    Allan
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Beef Wellington in Decorative trim/rail   
    Thats exactly how I made the scrolls Dave, I tried to include the detail of how these were made in my log.  It was something that scared me off for a bit, but of course once you get going, it tends to come together after thinking things through.  I have not tried scraping profiles in the supplied walnut, but I suspect the grain may be too big.  Pear or boxwood is very close grained and ideal for this type of finish.
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to RossR in Decorative trim/rail   
    I used it on Sapelli.  I haven't tried it on Walnut, but is think it would work well.  go slow and take just a little wood off at a time.  
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to DaveBaxt in Decorative trim/rail   
    As ever a great reply Bob. I had a feeling wood is probably the way to go and you have added some excellent tips. The micro shapers look like an excellent tool for making your own trim. In fact the photo I added is from Beef Wellingtons Diana, where has made his own shaperes using made from safety razorblades. Something which I might try myself. However I am just looking at different ways to achieve a similar result. So I might look into the ones supplied by Artisina. It also looks like I might have to try my hand at carving the scrolls on the end. Perhaps someone might add any tips on how this is achieved as well. Thank you again Bob.Best regards Dave
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Decorative trim/rail   
    From looking at the photo, it appears this molded brass bar stock wasn't intended for use with a scroll attached, so you'll have to do some scratch modification to use it as hull trim. 
     
    I don't know how you would carve a scroll in the end of the brass section because it doesn't' look like there's enough "meat" on it to carve the scroll, which is wider and of a different section than the brass stock you have. I suppose you could silver solder a piece of brass stock of sufficient size to accommodate the scroll shape to the molded brass bar stock, and then cut the scroll shape with a jeweler's saw and then shape the relief of the scroll using jeweler's files and suitably-shaped burrs in a flex-shaft or rotary grinder. 
     
    Your other option is to carve wooden scroll ends and then glue them adjacent to the squared off end of the molded brass bar stock, or, better yet, join with a lap joint. The wood would be much easier to carve, but probably tedious to fair into the milled brass bar stock. 
     
    It may be that the bigger challenge if you intend to use the molded brass stock as hull trim will be attaching it to the hull. Your hull will be finished with some coating, so whatever you use to glue it to the hull is never going to hold any better than the finish coating without mechanical fasteners. I'd suggest drilling holes in the back of the molded bar (being careful not to break through to the face of it) and silver solder brass lill pins with the heads removed into the holes. Those pins would then be inserted into corresponding holes on the hull and glued in with epoxy on the brass lill pins.
     
    On balance, I think it would be easier to shape a piece of fine-grained hardwood strip of sufficient size to accommodate the scrolls you want and glue wooden pieces at the ends from which to carve the scrolls. These can be secured to the hull with fine wooden or bamboo pegs set in holes in the hull in the same manner as the lill pins mentioned above. I'd strongly advise using mechanical fastenings like pegs or pins because this sort of curved trim is very prone to springing loose over time, since gluing anything under tension to a painted or varnished surface is not going to be very strongly attached. Even if you are attaching it "bare wood to bare wood," where the adhesive would hold much better, you'd have quite a challenge holding it in place while the glue dries. 
     
    If you want to paint these trim pieces a contrasting color from the hull, it's much easier to paint them before installation and then attach them after the hull is painted or varnished than trying to mask and get perfect separation lines top and bottom because it's very difficult to get a perfectly masked line at the "inside right angle" point of attachment between the trim piece and the hull. Attaching the trim piece requires a perfect fit on the faying surfaces in order to avoid the trim piece appearing as if it were glued on, which would spoil the illusion of reality necessary in a good model. Trim pieces are one of those details to which a viewer's eye is particularly drawn and a neat job is required.
     
    If you fabricate your own wooden trim pieces, it's well worth getting a set of Artisania Latina Micro-Shapers instead of fabricating your own at these scales. These scrapers are drawn repeatedly over a suitably sized piece of strip wood until the desired depth of cut is obtained. There are at least two different sets of three scraping plates, each of which has many different shapes cut into the edges. The shapes can be used singly, or in combinations, to yield just about any shape one could want. Each scraper has a different size range of shapes. I suggest you buy them from Artisania Latina directly, as they seem to be the least expensive source these days. (MicroMark wants twice the price for them!) Micro Shapers A for Models & Miniatures by Artesanía Latina (artesanialatina.net)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in Decorative trim/rail   
    From looking at the photo, it appears this molded brass bar stock wasn't intended for use with a scroll attached, so you'll have to do some scratch modification to use it as hull trim. 
     
    I don't know how you would carve a scroll in the end of the brass section because it doesn't' look like there's enough "meat" on it to carve the scroll, which is wider and of a different section than the brass stock you have. I suppose you could silver solder a piece of brass stock of sufficient size to accommodate the scroll shape to the molded brass bar stock, and then cut the scroll shape with a jeweler's saw and then shape the relief of the scroll using jeweler's files and suitably-shaped burrs in a flex-shaft or rotary grinder. 
     
    Your other option is to carve wooden scroll ends and then glue them adjacent to the squared off end of the molded brass bar stock, or, better yet, join with a lap joint. The wood would be much easier to carve, but probably tedious to fair into the milled brass bar stock. 
     
    It may be that the bigger challenge if you intend to use the molded brass stock as hull trim will be attaching it to the hull. Your hull will be finished with some coating, so whatever you use to glue it to the hull is never going to hold any better than the finish coating without mechanical fasteners. I'd suggest drilling holes in the back of the molded bar (being careful not to break through to the face of it) and silver solder brass lill pins with the heads removed into the holes. Those pins would then be inserted into corresponding holes on the hull and glued in with epoxy on the brass lill pins.
     
    On balance, I think it would be easier to shape a piece of fine-grained hardwood strip of sufficient size to accommodate the scrolls you want and glue wooden pieces at the ends from which to carve the scrolls. These can be secured to the hull with fine wooden or bamboo pegs set in holes in the hull in the same manner as the lill pins mentioned above. I'd strongly advise using mechanical fastenings like pegs or pins because this sort of curved trim is very prone to springing loose over time, since gluing anything under tension to a painted or varnished surface is not going to be very strongly attached. Even if you are attaching it "bare wood to bare wood," where the adhesive would hold much better, you'd have quite a challenge holding it in place while the glue dries. 
     
    If you want to paint these trim pieces a contrasting color from the hull, it's much easier to paint them before installation and then attach them after the hull is painted or varnished than trying to mask and get perfect separation lines top and bottom because it's very difficult to get a perfectly masked line at the "inside right angle" point of attachment between the trim piece and the hull. Attaching the trim piece requires a perfect fit on the faying surfaces in order to avoid the trim piece appearing as if it were glued on, which would spoil the illusion of reality necessary in a good model. Trim pieces are one of those details to which a viewer's eye is particularly drawn and a neat job is required.
     
    If you fabricate your own wooden trim pieces, it's well worth getting a set of Artisania Latina Micro-Shapers instead of fabricating your own at these scales. These scrapers are drawn repeatedly over a suitably sized piece of strip wood until the desired depth of cut is obtained. There are at least two different sets of three scraping plates, each of which has many different shapes cut into the edges. The shapes can be used singly, or in combinations, to yield just about any shape one could want. Each scraper has a different size range of shapes. I suggest you buy them from Artisania Latina directly, as they seem to be the least expensive source these days. (MicroMark wants twice the price for them!) Micro Shapers A for Models & Miniatures by Artesanía Latina (artesanialatina.net)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from AJohnson in Decorative trim/rail   
    From looking at the photo, it appears this molded brass bar stock wasn't intended for use with a scroll attached, so you'll have to do some scratch modification to use it as hull trim. 
     
    I don't know how you would carve a scroll in the end of the brass section because it doesn't' look like there's enough "meat" on it to carve the scroll, which is wider and of a different section than the brass stock you have. I suppose you could silver solder a piece of brass stock of sufficient size to accommodate the scroll shape to the molded brass bar stock, and then cut the scroll shape with a jeweler's saw and then shape the relief of the scroll using jeweler's files and suitably-shaped burrs in a flex-shaft or rotary grinder. 
     
    Your other option is to carve wooden scroll ends and then glue them adjacent to the squared off end of the molded brass bar stock, or, better yet, join with a lap joint. The wood would be much easier to carve, but probably tedious to fair into the milled brass bar stock. 
     
    It may be that the bigger challenge if you intend to use the molded brass stock as hull trim will be attaching it to the hull. Your hull will be finished with some coating, so whatever you use to glue it to the hull is never going to hold any better than the finish coating without mechanical fasteners. I'd suggest drilling holes in the back of the molded bar (being careful not to break through to the face of it) and silver solder brass lill pins with the heads removed into the holes. Those pins would then be inserted into corresponding holes on the hull and glued in with epoxy on the brass lill pins.
     
    On balance, I think it would be easier to shape a piece of fine-grained hardwood strip of sufficient size to accommodate the scrolls you want and glue wooden pieces at the ends from which to carve the scrolls. These can be secured to the hull with fine wooden or bamboo pegs set in holes in the hull in the same manner as the lill pins mentioned above. I'd strongly advise using mechanical fastenings like pegs or pins because this sort of curved trim is very prone to springing loose over time, since gluing anything under tension to a painted or varnished surface is not going to be very strongly attached. Even if you are attaching it "bare wood to bare wood," where the adhesive would hold much better, you'd have quite a challenge holding it in place while the glue dries. 
     
    If you want to paint these trim pieces a contrasting color from the hull, it's much easier to paint them before installation and then attach them after the hull is painted or varnished than trying to mask and get perfect separation lines top and bottom because it's very difficult to get a perfectly masked line at the "inside right angle" point of attachment between the trim piece and the hull. Attaching the trim piece requires a perfect fit on the faying surfaces in order to avoid the trim piece appearing as if it were glued on, which would spoil the illusion of reality necessary in a good model. Trim pieces are one of those details to which a viewer's eye is particularly drawn and a neat job is required.
     
    If you fabricate your own wooden trim pieces, it's well worth getting a set of Artisania Latina Micro-Shapers instead of fabricating your own at these scales. These scrapers are drawn repeatedly over a suitably sized piece of strip wood until the desired depth of cut is obtained. There are at least two different sets of three scraping plates, each of which has many different shapes cut into the edges. The shapes can be used singly, or in combinations, to yield just about any shape one could want. Each scraper has a different size range of shapes. I suggest you buy them from Artisania Latina directly, as they seem to be the least expensive source these days. (MicroMark wants twice the price for them!) Micro Shapers A for Models & Miniatures by Artesanía Latina (artesanialatina.net)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Decorative trim/rail   
    From looking at the photo, it appears this molded brass bar stock wasn't intended for use with a scroll attached, so you'll have to do some scratch modification to use it as hull trim. 
     
    I don't know how you would carve a scroll in the end of the brass section because it doesn't' look like there's enough "meat" on it to carve the scroll, which is wider and of a different section than the brass stock you have. I suppose you could silver solder a piece of brass stock of sufficient size to accommodate the scroll shape to the molded brass bar stock, and then cut the scroll shape with a jeweler's saw and then shape the relief of the scroll using jeweler's files and suitably-shaped burrs in a flex-shaft or rotary grinder. 
     
    Your other option is to carve wooden scroll ends and then glue them adjacent to the squared off end of the molded brass bar stock, or, better yet, join with a lap joint. The wood would be much easier to carve, but probably tedious to fair into the milled brass bar stock. 
     
    It may be that the bigger challenge if you intend to use the molded brass stock as hull trim will be attaching it to the hull. Your hull will be finished with some coating, so whatever you use to glue it to the hull is never going to hold any better than the finish coating without mechanical fasteners. I'd suggest drilling holes in the back of the molded bar (being careful not to break through to the face of it) and silver solder brass lill pins with the heads removed into the holes. Those pins would then be inserted into corresponding holes on the hull and glued in with epoxy on the brass lill pins.
     
    On balance, I think it would be easier to shape a piece of fine-grained hardwood strip of sufficient size to accommodate the scrolls you want and glue wooden pieces at the ends from which to carve the scrolls. These can be secured to the hull with fine wooden or bamboo pegs set in holes in the hull in the same manner as the lill pins mentioned above. I'd strongly advise using mechanical fastenings like pegs or pins because this sort of curved trim is very prone to springing loose over time, since gluing anything under tension to a painted or varnished surface is not going to be very strongly attached. Even if you are attaching it "bare wood to bare wood," where the adhesive would hold much better, you'd have quite a challenge holding it in place while the glue dries. 
     
    If you want to paint these trim pieces a contrasting color from the hull, it's much easier to paint them before installation and then attach them after the hull is painted or varnished than trying to mask and get perfect separation lines top and bottom because it's very difficult to get a perfectly masked line at the "inside right angle" point of attachment between the trim piece and the hull. Attaching the trim piece requires a perfect fit on the faying surfaces in order to avoid the trim piece appearing as if it were glued on, which would spoil the illusion of reality necessary in a good model. Trim pieces are one of those details to which a viewer's eye is particularly drawn and a neat job is required.
     
    If you fabricate your own wooden trim pieces, it's well worth getting a set of Artisania Latina Micro-Shapers instead of fabricating your own at these scales. These scrapers are drawn repeatedly over a suitably sized piece of strip wood until the desired depth of cut is obtained. There are at least two different sets of three scraping plates, each of which has many different shapes cut into the edges. The shapes can be used singly, or in combinations, to yield just about any shape one could want. Each scraper has a different size range of shapes. I suggest you buy them from Artisania Latina directly, as they seem to be the least expensive source these days. (MicroMark wants twice the price for them!) Micro Shapers A for Models & Miniatures by Artesanía Latina (artesanialatina.net)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from allanyed in Decorative trim/rail   
    From looking at the photo, it appears this molded brass bar stock wasn't intended for use with a scroll attached, so you'll have to do some scratch modification to use it as hull trim. 
     
    I don't know how you would carve a scroll in the end of the brass section because it doesn't' look like there's enough "meat" on it to carve the scroll, which is wider and of a different section than the brass stock you have. I suppose you could silver solder a piece of brass stock of sufficient size to accommodate the scroll shape to the molded brass bar stock, and then cut the scroll shape with a jeweler's saw and then shape the relief of the scroll using jeweler's files and suitably-shaped burrs in a flex-shaft or rotary grinder. 
     
    Your other option is to carve wooden scroll ends and then glue them adjacent to the squared off end of the molded brass bar stock, or, better yet, join with a lap joint. The wood would be much easier to carve, but probably tedious to fair into the milled brass bar stock. 
     
    It may be that the bigger challenge if you intend to use the molded brass stock as hull trim will be attaching it to the hull. Your hull will be finished with some coating, so whatever you use to glue it to the hull is never going to hold any better than the finish coating without mechanical fasteners. I'd suggest drilling holes in the back of the molded bar (being careful not to break through to the face of it) and silver solder brass lill pins with the heads removed into the holes. Those pins would then be inserted into corresponding holes on the hull and glued in with epoxy on the brass lill pins.
     
    On balance, I think it would be easier to shape a piece of fine-grained hardwood strip of sufficient size to accommodate the scrolls you want and glue wooden pieces at the ends from which to carve the scrolls. These can be secured to the hull with fine wooden or bamboo pegs set in holes in the hull in the same manner as the lill pins mentioned above. I'd strongly advise using mechanical fastenings like pegs or pins because this sort of curved trim is very prone to springing loose over time, since gluing anything under tension to a painted or varnished surface is not going to be very strongly attached. Even if you are attaching it "bare wood to bare wood," where the adhesive would hold much better, you'd have quite a challenge holding it in place while the glue dries. 
     
    If you want to paint these trim pieces a contrasting color from the hull, it's much easier to paint them before installation and then attach them after the hull is painted or varnished than trying to mask and get perfect separation lines top and bottom because it's very difficult to get a perfectly masked line at the "inside right angle" point of attachment between the trim piece and the hull. Attaching the trim piece requires a perfect fit on the faying surfaces in order to avoid the trim piece appearing as if it were glued on, which would spoil the illusion of reality necessary in a good model. Trim pieces are one of those details to which a viewer's eye is particularly drawn and a neat job is required.
     
    If you fabricate your own wooden trim pieces, it's well worth getting a set of Artisania Latina Micro-Shapers instead of fabricating your own at these scales. These scrapers are drawn repeatedly over a suitably sized piece of strip wood until the desired depth of cut is obtained. There are at least two different sets of three scraping plates, each of which has many different shapes cut into the edges. The shapes can be used singly, or in combinations, to yield just about any shape one could want. Each scraper has a different size range of shapes. I suggest you buy them from Artisania Latina directly, as they seem to be the least expensive source these days. (MicroMark wants twice the price for them!) Micro Shapers A for Models & Miniatures by Artesanía Latina (artesanialatina.net)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Plastic or Wood models? Your Favorite?   
    Agreed as to Syren and Vanguard from what I've seen and heard. While admittedly a "thread drift" here, I've always been fascinated by how it's possible for anybody to make a profit selling wooden ship model kits.  I have no idea where the relevant data might be found, but it would seem that after one does the research and development to design a kit, then factors in the cost of materials, which aren't particularly high, the difficulty of protecting one's intellectual property rights, the relatively small number of potential buyers, and the lack of retail outlets for what is often an impulse purchase, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of meat left on the bone, considering the work necessary to put a kit into the stream of commerce.
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