AON

Richard frame $470 - e-bay $769 Uplift $940 Livello (crank) $1439 Steelcase (air touch) Alan

not a very good endorsement just lost that warm and fuzzy feeling

Thank you - I would have never found this. as Sgt. Shultz would say ... Very interesting almost 20" lift (25.6 to 45.3 inch) 180 lb capacity 1-1/2" lift/lower per second 24Vdc $350 Cdn (incl shipping) for a pair with controller hmmmm.................................

I believe need to go through some distributorship to purchase one. Well I've done a web search and prices vary $US470 for a bare bones crank frame that they won't ship to Canada and onwards up to $US769, $US940, $CDN1439 If you have a better source I'd love to have it.

We have three at the office and they seem awfully expensive for something so simple Plus I want it cabinet like, to close up when I'm done for the day so I'd have to build around it anyway. Having said that ... I should take a fresh look at it

I was downstairs with the tape measure last night eye balling things and I believe the darn table top will be much too big for the space. Definitely need to start a scale drawing too get a better handle on the sizing.

Attached PDF is a hand sketch of the pulley and counterweight concept. I would consider using clean beach sand in a container as the counterweight as it is easy to add/drain to tune the balance (1cubic foot = about 168 pounds) so adjustment is practically effortless. Possibly lock the desk top it in place at the selected elevation (0 to 15") with a lever arm and pin on each side? Pulleys and cable all concealed in side walls and overhead valance. I will have to make up some proper drawings to build from. pulley sketch.pdf

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. I just spent a half hour looking over "show us your work space" (very inspirational) at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6415-show-us-your-workbench-work-area and I am now convinced I am on the right track to keep the mess in the adjacent work room. Add to my short list - proper lighting / illumination - adequate power outlets over head - adequate storage - possibly a flip up wing table for reference books, sketches, bits and pieces or even pop corn - may be a cup holder - white flooring to find dropped pieces I've been mulling over the counterweight assembly in my head and am thinking of my old draughting board versus a pulley and cable lift base design we didn't use on an industrial design done years ago (we used jack screws instead ... but it was a few tons of load). Leaning towards the cable and pulley. If I can (time permitting) I'll freehand sketch something at lunch and post it. Alan

I have a walk around table with a backless and armless computer swivel chair in the work room and it can sometimes be quite uncomfortable for reaching and sometimes I just have to stand up for comfort and then I'm stooping over. I also use a higher stool to try to find some comfortable position at the low table and high workbench I have in there. I created a sketch during my lunch so you can get a better idea of what I'm thinking of dimensions are Imperial and metric (in inches and [mm] ) 4' x 8' sheet forms the table top table mounted up against the wall table top can raise any distance up to 15" higher so I can stand at it if I wish lift counterweighted and height adjustments lock with simple pin model mounts on offset centre to bring it closer to the front for a shorter reach model will rotate 360° on horizontal axis mounting table can rotate (tilt) towards or away from me up to possibly 45° (although I show 30°) to get easy comfortable access to under the hull or the deck haven't sketched supporting structure, etc as yet. still forming the idea (CORRECTED THE SPELLING ERROR ON THE SKETCH) MODELING DESK SKETCH.pdf

Popcorn? Power outlets! Hadn't thought of that. Thanks Working up a preliminary sketch... might post something in a few days for comments.

I have a large work room with most of the necessary wood working tools that generate tons of wood chips and sawdust. I also have a nice long space outside the work room where I'd like to build a modelling (or model building) table. An area where the wood chips and sawdust rarely get near. I just have to figure out what it should be. Then I had the grand idea to solicit ideas from the forum... who better to ask than those who have been building models. So my question is, what would you wish for in a modelling table? Remember, all wood storage, cutting and shaping is done elsewhere. The sky is the limit... think outside the box! My short list 1. comfortable height (possibly adjustable) to allow standing or sitting at. 2. model holding portion of table top can rotate and lock in any position 3. table top is large enough to accommodate any size model 4. good lighting 5. trays to put tools / parts down into to keep the table top clear 6. place to pin up reference drawings / sketches / photos ... possibly magnets (not pins) 7. possible to "close it all up" when I'm done for the day to keep the dust out/ off the model 8. possibly the table top could tilt towards me 15° to 30° Your turn... and if it is something you've already got that is the best idea since sliced bread i'd love to read or better yet see it (post a picture).. ... and THANK YOU! I rarely get an opportunity to do something right the first time. This might just be one of them. Alan

It has been a few weeks since my last post. I had suffered back problems and couldn't get anything done. A lot has happened since. Not sure if I mentioned my Bellerophon and Elephant Build Contracts and Elephant framing drawing came in from NMM. I also received the copy of the Ship Modeller's Shop Notes Book 2 from NRG... and I was assigned a mentor from the NRG program!. Now that my back is back to (ab)normal and I can sit for prolonged periods I've finally got the fairing completed. It was a long, nit picky process. The hull at the bow kept buckling on me because of the sharp change in form at the timberline. I had to insert a third intermediate 3D guide curve below the upper most one at the topside. This took care of the problem. Below are the results. Next I want to get 3 or 4 of the frames done up in 3D at midships just to see how to do it. Then I will draw and model the keel stem and stern post assemblies. I will have another project to distract me though, designing and building a modeling work station just outside my work (play) room down in the basement. I may be posting elsewhere on the form to solicit ideas and comments on my plans for this. Alan

Thanks to Tony I was able to complete a surface loft of the hull yesterday. I am continuing my fairing clean up of the model.... tedious work. I am getting anxious to receive the build contracts because my station locations are admittedly wrong and the locations provides in the scantling "tables" do not add up for me as it refers to 176 ft long 74 gun man of war and the Bellerophon was 168 feet long. The tables also lists stations I do not have. Originally I just measured the image and then picked what I thought was logical spacings based on what I measured. Rookie error. All stations should be 5'-6" spacing per the "tables" with about 6 feet at the bow and 4' at the stern. Both the framing and line drawings clearly attest to the 6' and 4' spacings. The 5'-6" seem to be different. This has been baffling me for quite some time and I am hoping the contract clears it up. (The PDF sheet ALLENYED provided earlier suggests different dimensions which tends to make sense of all this)

Loved watching (and studying) the end of your build I can appreciate the need for a break and moving onto something different .... and can also imagine you coming back to it down the road (only because you've left the door cracked open!) I will be revisiting your build and would love any more pics you think worthy of posting Have a few more of the figure head? Enjoy your next build ... possibly an inflatable raft? (bet that would be easier ) Time for grog

DOH! something new to play with

Tony, Thank you for the suggestions. I seem to have only the one "loft" button ... which means I do not understand the "how to" of lofting a surface. Giving up is not in my DNA so with a bit of time and the internet I will figure this out. I wish I had someone at the office that did this so I could just have them show me ... but alas this is not something we do. Hexnut, sorry I didn't "get it" earlier.

Completed two of four sections ... I think After I get the last two sections cleaned up I'll join them all and see if it's true! PS - In the middle is a reference grid I created to help me eyeball how far to move things PPS - Hexnut.... this was faster and cleaner My computer thanks you

Thank you Druxey. I did a couple other diagonal sections to get a different perspective ... and of course you are correct! I've learnt so much already and haven't built anything yet! Joined the NRG and just rec'd my Model Ship Builder's Book 1 .... wasn't able to put it down last night. Still waiting to receive my copies of the two Build Contracts (HMS Bellerophon and Elephant) from NMM. Tried nudging station lines in my model and the existing Loft Feature is making things difficult. I will have to work from a copy of the file, delete the loft feature, make mods suggested earlier by hexnut, adjust one station line and loft that small section alone to see results, then repeat as necessary. Once that station is faired I will move on to the next station of concern. Just realize that not only may the station identified be the problem for the section, but the adjacent stations may be part of the problem also. It is difficult to make progress but if I don't get this part right anything after will compound it.

To help identify areas that likely need adjustments I created sections from the top of the keel upwards at 1 foot intervals and then marked the stations. The PDF below is a select few of them. I've made screen shots of my station sketches with dimensions visible so I do not loose the original dimensions as I nudge things back and forth and then view the results. I am also presently thinking ahead to how to build the station frames. I am leaning towards making each frame as one piece and etching the chocks and scarf joints into them rather than building each piece individually. This will make them stronger and piece alignment will not be compromised. I am also considering hollowing (shelling) the 3D model to the moulded depth (thickness) of the frames and then putting the 1" gaps (slices) between teach frame and cutting out the futtock steps to create the templates. This would have the bevel in the 3D model/templates and reveal the maximum/minimum outside/inside sizes to which I can mark off and pre-shape to before the assembly. My thoughts at the moment, possibly the description isn't clear but as I develop the plan I will reveal it ... if it continues to make sense to follow this thought. Fairing the Hull - ship sections.pdf

Good evening Druxey! I inserted a geometrical reference plane at 45° from Breadth Line (Plane) 3 and sectioned through the hull along this plane to simulate a test diagonal. I also turned on the station planes to identify locations of any deformations. There is one at station 28 near the stern that was seen in the other views from this mornings post. I can change the angle or elevation to whatever I want to create other diagonal sections. I believe this is what you were suggesting. Does give a slightly different perspective. Alan

Good evening Bob (hexnut) Just visited your build and have to say that before I did I realized you had much greater 3D CAD talent than I, seeing your work just added proof. I understand your point 1, don't know what Hahn method means in 2 but do understand the rest, do not understand what lofting surfs are (will have to exercise my Google fingers on this). Thank you for the tips. I will try these out through the week JFTHOI. Alan PS: Google revealed your lofting surfs was an abbreviation for "lofting surfaces", and also what the Hahn method is....DOH !

Test diagonals. .... I'll give it a go tonight if I find a moment. The software is fine, it is the memory that is the problem (I know the feeling intimately) Like me the computer is getting on in years ... possibly 84 years old in dog years (the computer, not me ...yet)

CREATING BREADTH LINES TO FAIR THE MODEL I didn’t actually create lines. I created planes through the lofted model by offsetting the Breadth Plane (lowest plane) and then while looking from above, sectioned through each plane to see the hull outline. Although I only created four at 5 foot intervals I can easily create as many as I feel I need. Having done all the above I could see where things did not flow smoothly. These areas shouldn’t exist and will need to be cleaned up. I will now take my time to make adjustments and then see how she fairs! To recap, I think it is important when making a 3D model of the hull to inspect Breadth and Buttock lines to help identify areas of concern. I should create a few breadth sections in the upper half of the hull to see what is happening in that area. As always, I hope those in the know will point out my errors and keep me from straying too far.

USING THE SOLIDWORKS LOFT FEATURE TO CREATE THE SOLID HULL This is my second (or really fourth) go at this. I admit that even after having received good advice from forum members I still had to watch three videos to “get it”. · Created four guide lines using 3D sketch · Locked the lines to points on each section using “coincident” or “intersect” type mates · Opened the Loft Feature and picked four station outlines and all four guide lines · When these resolved I rebuilt and saved the file, luckily as my computer crashed twice near the end. Without the saving ritual I would have lost everything. · Note that the starboard side does not have guide lines and so has some extra waviness to the hull. I had manually made some adjustments for show afterwards but mainly I am just looking at the port side (with the guide lines). Although I can see the divit in the hull at the stern the bow seems good ... not so in the earlier Buttock line review.

CREATING BUTTOCK LINES TO FAIR THE DRAWING I created BUTTOCK LINES on vertical planes through the hull from stem to stern because I wanted to see how she faired as the original draughtsman might have done. BUTTOCK PLANES • I created a second plane by offsetting the shear plane 0.56 feet which happens to coincide with most station line termination points in the rabbet • I then created additional planes by offsetting them at 10 feet each • I then sketched polylines on each individual plane (buttock lines of my own making) and locked them (pierce mate) at each point they intersect with a station o Peirce mate by picking the station line, hold down the “Ctl” key and pick the polyline point (*) I want to mate to it, then pick “pierce” mate. The point then locks to the line where they intersect on the plane. o While doing this I found two errors in my sketches and as importantly can easily see irregularities in my lines!