US Brig Niagara by xken - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1/64

[xken]

I am following this photo that I have found and it appears to be a loop on the block that attaches to the rear of the gun bed  and then a hook that engages the rings on the bulwark. The plans really show no detail on these hook ups.

 

Since my picture was taken I have developed a better looking brass hook for mine that I will post later.

 

 

[scott larkins]

Simply sick dude

[xken]

Scott I will take that as a compliment. I started with the train tackle and quickly realized that for tension I needed to add wheel chocks that are removable to use the fixture for the carronades. I just drilled holes in the chocks and deck then added a pin to locate them in the holes in the deck.

 

After a couple of tests I learned that the rope (thread) needed to be glued to the underside of the block adjacent to the side wire. I used masking tape to hold the blocks in place to glue the ends in place and thread the rope through the holes drilled in the block.

 

 

Here is the train tackle with the chocks added. The kit thread is way to stiff so I found some sewing thread in my wife's stash of thread spools. Much softer and limber to work with. The breech line in the kit is also extremely stiff and a little undersized based upon the photograph of the real carronade. Will see if I can locate a substitute as well.

 

 

Here are all the lines in place for now with the gun position all the way forward and the gun tackle blocks touching each other. On the deck it will be set back so as not to touch or I will have to remove the bulwark end brass hook. 

 

 

Will be working on honey-do's for the rest of the day.

[GLakie]

Your jig is working out nicely it seems, and the thread you picked out looks like it's laying and falling the way it should Ken. Sweet!

[Jack12477]

Ken, very nice. Now I see how your jig works. Thanks for posting the photos.

[GuntherMT]

Nice work Ken.  The line supplied by Model Shipways in their kits is probably the biggest gripe I have with MS.  That rope is garbage.  I threw it all out and am using Syren rope instead.

 

Something to consider in the future, instead of gluing the train rope to the side of the block, instead glue it to the 'base' of the block before you strop it, and the strop will hold it on.  Then take the tail, fold it back over and seize it.  Of course your way is probably easier, and at the smaller scale you are working on it might look just as good when complete, I certainly didn't notice it in any of your photo's until you showed how you were doing it!

 

Looking through my raw images, I see that I didn't take a single photo of how I was doing that, but if you are interested I'll take a few photo's today while I'm working on the tackle for the other half of my guns.

[xken]

Brian, please by all means post some photos; I need all the help I can get being new at this. Can you share a link to the Syren rope?

 

I thought of adding the rope as you suggested once I had everything together and started to assembly things. I may try on the next ones; I started with the long gun to learn since there are only two of them.

 

Thanks!

[GuntherMT]

Chuck's rope - http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/miniature-rope.php

 

Will do at least one block and take photo's this afternoon.

[GuntherMT]

Ken,

 

Rather than clogging up your build with a giant post with a bunch of pictures on how I'm doing something, I added it to my build log.  Here is a direct link to that post for you - http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8085-armed-virginia-sloop-by-gunthermt-model-shipways-scale-148/?p=328294

[xken]

Brian thanks for the link; now to figure out which ones to get. Also thanks for the pictures, they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

What scale are those you are doing?

[GLakie]

The scale of Brian's AVS is 1:48, but if you're referring to the size blocks and materials, a quote:

 

"I am using Syren 5/32" Pearwood single blocks, Syren 3mm hooks, some generic tan thread I found that is very thin for seizing, .008" Syren brown rope for the stropping, and .012" Syren tan rope for the tackle line." 

 

Cheers

Edited June 29, 2015 by GLakie

[GuntherMT]

The AVS is 1:48 scale, but for the rope and tackle I am using the "It looks about right" scale.  I have no clue if they are correct for the scale, but they are about 10 million times better than the hilariously oversized blocks provided in the kit for this.

[xken]

A question for all....are guns, carronades etc. glued to the deck and then finally rigged to bulwark rings? I will move onto to forming yards (and honey-do's) until I can resolve the rope rigging issues. I took lengths of the kit rope and soaked it in hot water and then hung it with a weight to straighten it out. It did straighten nicely but still way too stiff for working with. I have used this technique on WWI airplanes for rigging them.

George, thanks for the update on sizes, I will cross reference and order some.

[kurtvd19]

Ken:

With the (relative) mass of the guns I back up the glue with a pin of some sort either hidden in the carriage or on the bottom side of a wheel.  Using brass for the wheels you can't use a pin there but some cross piece of the carriage will serve.  Depends on the pin but that might be adequate to hold the gun in place regardless of your moving the model around later.

 

Bite the bullet and order your rigging line from Syren.  You can't get better line unless you make your own and then you will need to practice a lot to get the results Chuck gets after making or buying a rope walk, etc.  The only stuff that comes close to Chuck's is Morope and Morope has a nasty tendency to come unraveled when cut and it's more expensive for less line.  Morope comes from Germany whereas Chuck makes his stuff right here in the US.

 

Kurt

[Jack12477]

I agree with Kurt - get Chuck's Syren rope, it's great. I bought some from him at the show in CT a few months ago. Prior to Chuck's rope I was replacing all of the MS kit supplied rope with Artensania Latina's rope which is many orders of magnitude better than what Model Shipways supplies.  As my AL rope runs out I will replace it with Syren rope.

 

Ken, to answer your question, I glue my cannons to the deck after I attach the rigging.  I use a small amount of the very thin CA applied right alongside the wheels and let capillary action draw it under the wheel. So far none of my cannons have come loose from the deck.

[GLakie]

I agree with Kurt and Jack on fastening the carronades. A pin through the carriage, or glue directly to the deck, is what a lot of guys are doing. 

[xken]

Thanks all the the suggestions will sort out best approach. 

[xken]

The rope order is placed and will wait for it's arrival. I ordered three sizes based upon the plan notes. Thanks again for all your help.

[GuntherMT]

I am gluing my cannons down after the breaching line is secured to the bulkhead, but before the out-haul tackle, since it's located with hooks and I can simply drop it into the eye bolts and then tighten it up.  Having the guns secured when I do that is very helpful.

 

Note that I learned the hard way.  If your wheels are painted, take out a sanding stick and move the gun back and forth on it to get a clean paint-free wood surface for the glue to adhere to.  A couple of my guns I didn't do that with were very easily knocked loose, and it's a LOT harder to sand those wheels when the carriage is firmly attached to the breaching line!

[xken]

Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions.

 

I decided to add a locating pin in the front axle which should hold the two long guns in their respective places once rigged. 

Here is the pin in the brass axle.

 

I also test fit the port gun in place and the blocks seem over sized and I will eliminate the secondary brass hook at the bulwark to increase the length of the rig. If still too short the one at the carriage will go as well. I think you will be able to see what I mean in the photo. The starboard gun is located on it's pin.

I think the carronades will be easier with their locating pin already in place.

 

[GuntherMT]

I agree Ken.  It's just hard to get a hook in that scale to look right, because they'd be friggen tiny compared to what we can seemingly make.  That's why I used the 3mm hooks from Syren, but they are pretty fragile and require a very small rope to thread through the hole.

 

Ditch one, or both, whichever looks best to your eye, since ultimately, that is what matters most!

 

I like the pin location system.  I really thought about that, but in the end I couldn't figure out a really good way to locate where the hole in the deck needed to go, so I just glued them directly to the deck.  In theory they shouldn't be taking any strain/stress once all the rigging is done, so shouldn't need the pin.

[xken]

Brian, thanks for reinforcing my thoughts on "looking right" which I think is one of the key tenets of modelling. An old friend of mine once told me that "It does not have to always be right, it just has to look right."

 

The pin system will work for the two long guns, and as for locating I use a small divider set at the needed standoff dimension put it on the center-line of the gun barrel on the deck then press the end of the divider point into the deck to locate the pin hole. I have found that at small scale, dividers work better for dimensioning than a scale; especially for transferring multiple locations of the same dimension.

[lb0190]

Hi Ken, I've been quietly following your build. In case your interested in using the hooks mentioned by Brian, here is how I used them on my Niagara:

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/313-niagara-by-larry-model-shipways-wood-pob-164th-lb0190/page-35

As Brian mentioned, I also think they match the scale well.

Take care,

[GuntherMT]

The pin system will work for the two long guns, and as for locating I use a small divider set at the needed standoff dimension put it on the center-line of the gun barrel on the deck then press the end of the divider point into the deck to locate the pin hole. I have found that at small scale, dividers work better for dimensioning than a scale; especially for transferring multiple locations of the same dimension.

 

I really need to get a good set of dividers, it's one tool that I see used often, to good effect, and yet I've never managed to pick up a set for myself.

[xken]

Larry, thanks for the link; I have visited your site several times looking at this sequence and you answered my question on the rope coils being made separate and then added. 

Right now I am experimenting with changing to 28 gauge brass wire and trapping the tackle rope with the wire on the block. This way I can set up tackle blocks while I wait for the rope order to be delivered. 

[xken]

Well I think I have sorted out the tackle blocks and have decided to wait for the rope shipment to arrive to make sure I use the correct tackle rope. Just received notice this morning that the order has shipped so should arrive by Monday or Tuesday if all goes well.

 

I have moved onto the yards and again had to dip into my personal stock of dowels since the kit had no 1/8" dowel as I sorted out the dowels provided against the plans.

 

I started with the topsail yards having the smaller hexagon center section to start with that was marked in the center area.

First I shaved the rough cut taper using the small plane and then chucked in the lathe to finish the taper using a file then sanding block and finally a sanding stick for a smooth finish.

 

 

Once both were cut and finished I drilled the locations for the eye bolts and then added them and adjusted their alignment using a .020" brass rod. The stop chocks and batten were also added.

 

 

Once finished then painted black. 

 

 

Next I will move on and finish up the rest.

 

[GuntherMT]

Looking good.  You'll love the rope when you get it, and will be happy you made that decision.  It was the first (and only) 'change' I made to my first ship, and one that I've never even come close to regretting!  

[GLakie]

Looks great Ken! Very nice!!

[xken]

We had a great holiday weekend with our kids,grand kids and friends whale watching and cookouts. I did manage to get some building in and completed all the yards, spanker gaff and boom. The wife thinks I should have a "Yard Sale" 

All are still in need of some fine tuning especially on stop chocks now that they are painted and glue set. The thumb chocks were much easier to fabricate than I thought they would be; I started by drilling the right size hole and then splitting through the center of the hole and shaping. I did not think to take pictures of this process.

Here are a few pictures; had to see details when painted flat black.

 

Next I will finish up details on them while waiting for my rope order to be delivered.

 

 

[GLakie]

They look great Ken!  Very nice work.  As a side note, I've got your book on it's way. Can't wait to check it out.