USS Constitution by Modeler12 - FINISHED - Model Shipways

[usedtosail]

Welcome back Jay. And you too Geoff. You guys were my inspiration for my build. I have learned a lot from you guys.

[Modeler12]

Thanks for those comments, guys. Here is one more:

 

Suggestion 12

When you do the deck planking (or the hull for that matter) think about the spacing of the beams and make the joints as well as any tree nails line up on top of those beams (whether or not they are there). For example, the hatch ways would have a beam on both sides and sometimes (depending on size) one at the center line. 

I did not do that as shown in the picture above. It requires just a little more planning but a purist would notice if they don't line up.

Now you can see that I also have a lot to learn. Next time!!!!

[Modeler12]

Suggestion 13

 

This one requires some explanations. It has to do with the bow and the complicated top and head rails. My point will be to use some thin plywood instead of the three pieces Mr. Hunt used and describes in nice detail. I thought I followed his instructions:

  

Here is what happened the first time, and what it looked like afterwards. I had reversed the bonding of the two joints.

  

 

After turning the two pieces the right way, I still had to add more wood in order to make the curve that goes underneath the cathead. As long as these parts are painted black, I decided to make the last two pieces out of plywood. It is a lot stronger in both directions (no oops). When you look at the first picture above and substitute plywood you can appreciate that subsequent operations are less likely to break those thin pieces.
 

The last picture reminds me of some Alaskan Indian carving/painting. It was taken before the head rails became a question.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Suggestion 14

Check your tools from time to time to make sure they are clean and sharp. 
Obviously a dull Exacto blade is not what you want to use (I do from time to time).
Replace the blade or resharpen it. In my opinion a touch with a fine diamond tool works faster and often better than replacing a blade.
This will bring up a lot of suggestions, I hope, about sharpening all of our tools.

 

I use my tweezers a lot when knotting and tying lines followed by some CA. The glue will build up between the blades. 
Clean them!!! Adjust the gap if needed. That goes for a lot of other tweezers and clamps!!!!
You would be surprised how they look and why you were not able to grab something.

[Modeler12]

To expound on Suggestion 14
I was really surprised that I could not use my bent-tweezers when I wanted to grab a line or rope. Only the tip would hold.
Of course, that should have been a clue. When holding this thing up towards a light you could see.

 

Bending the prongs of a tool is simple. Use a vise or other tool to hold one 'leg' and bend the other a little at a time util it seems right. Even the hemostats I use can be bend to enlarge the holding gap.

 

Suggestion?  Try these ideas and let me know what you suggest.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Modeler12

[capnharv2]

Jay,

 

Thanks for these excellent suggestions. I hadn't thought of using thin ply instead of basswood for the head rails. That certainly makes them stronger, and I'll remember that on future builds.

 

Your comment about the Bentick shrouds is very timely, since that's what I'm working on now. For months I've been patting myself on the back because I remembered to put the eyebolts in for them before the fore and main shrouds went on-to find that, even though I thought I had, I hadn't . At least I haven't put the ratlines in yet, but it's still going to be a PITA to get those shrouds installed now

 

I just went thru your video on soldering. It's really helpful, but I do have some questions and comments, especially about the silver soldering/brazing.

 

-What kind of flux do you use? A while back I read a soldering tutorial where the author recommended Battern's flux.

 

-One way I found to position the silver solder "pellet" is to first wet the joint with flux on the end of a toothpick, then use that wet end to pick up the silver solder and place it close to the joint. I've found it works really well, and has really cut down on the amount of flux that I use.

 

-The tutorial I mentioned also said the the joint to be silver soldered needs to be "tight" with no gaps between the two ends to be soldered. How do you clamp the end of the eyebolt to keep the joint tight?

 

-One problem I've been having with silver soldering eyebolts is that the solder will not fill the joint, but, instead, fills the center of the eye. I often find that, when I drill the eye out, the solder hasn't touched the joint I wanted to solder-it all jumps over to fill the center of the eye.

 

-The joint can never be clean enough. I've been abrading my solder joints with a wire wheel, then soaking them in acetone for 5-10 minutes before I attempt to solder the joint. That's been working for me, but I could do better-any suggestions?

 

-Your comment about melting brass wire when annealing is spot on-I've melted several wires when annealing-and several more when trying to solder. Have you found a minimum gage brass wire that you can solder without melting. I'm melting 28 Ga wire before the solder melts, so I'm curious how 30 Ga would work.

 

Thanks again for your efforts! They have been really helpful.

 

Harvey

Edited January 15, 2015 by capnharv2

[Modeler12]

Harv, the video is a bit old and the idea of using pellets of the brazing metal came from a lady who makes jewelry. Since then I switched to using a paste that incorporates the silver. It is much easier to use.

For some details and name of the compound go to an earlier couple posts:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/1888-silver-soldering-tools/page-2?hl=%2Bchain+%2Bplates#entry141293

 

It is post #28 and 29 in that series.

You can buy the Solder-it from several places. Just google it.

 

When I made the small hoops I tried to close the wire as best I could. When a tiny amount of the flux is put on top of the joint, I also use a toothpick to apply the paste. I also hold the torch at a slight angle left or right and let the flame hit the metal away from the 'eye'. The silver has a tendency to flow towards the heat source. Notice that it takes a second or so to make the joint on thin wire. The amount of heat is concentrated and I can actually use masking tape to hold the parts to the stone plate. 

 

Just for fun, I opened the box with the torch and flux this morning and even after more than a year the flux is still good. Just be sure to close the tube after use because it will harden when exposed to air.

[Modeler12]

I notice that there are three pictures missing in the post above. Here they are again for what ever it is worth.

The first has to do with the adjustable flame size.

The second shows too much silver in the joint and the third is related to repairing a joint using another paste.

The Solder-it is a grey paste. See the post again if interested.

     

[Modeler12]

Suggestion 15

Stabilize and hold the shrouds in place before adding ratlines. 
Of course this is something I am going through right now, so bear with me.

Once the shrouds are installed with deadeyes below and the mast on top, there is still some 'movement' or looseness to the whole thing. It is not a stable platform for the ratlines. Hence there is a solid rod (called a sheer pole) near the bottom and the futtock stave upwards. They really hold the shrouds where they should stay. Lateral movement in particular can be a problem otherwise.
 

To install these bars is tricky. They cannot simply be cut to length and tied in place. Things have a tendency to slip, slide and drop out of place. 

What I did is to take the wire, bend one end, determine where to bend the other end and fit it to the shrouds. 
Below you can see a futtock stave before and after fitting it to the shrouds. 
 

I then used some thread and tied them in place, followed by a dab of epoxy to finish them permanently. Now I was ready to do the rat lines. If necessary I can cut the ends of the bars if they show too much. Some black paint is also in order.

  

 

[Modeler12]

A couple days ago someone mentioned the Bentnick shrouds and how he attached the swiveled bullseys to the bulwark first. It is a real tricky place to get to since the mast and shrouds are all in the way. Here is my approach.

 

I locate and drill the hole in the bulwark first. Make a dry fit with the swivel bullseye, but don't install it yet. I then pre-assemble the Bentnick shroud with the ring that holds the five futtock shrouds and the tackle with the two bullseyes. However, I leave the tackle line loose. It will be tightened after all of this is installed. The shrouds are added to the ring and the whole thing is carefully fitted to the bulwark.

 

In the pictures below you can see the swivel (which will hardly be noticeable) and the ring which was silver soldered at the joint (barely see the light spot). I should have blackened this copper ring, but will touch it up with some black paint. The two bulleyes were drilled out to represent the real thing as shown in the pictures taken by Popeye2sea. 

[dgbot]

Jay, I just came upon your log. Sorry I did not see it sooner. If I build the Conn your build will be a must read. I however lack the courage and I am looking at other models of interest. Great work

David B

[Modeler12]

Jay, I just came upon your log. Sorry I did not see it sooner. If I build the Conn your build will be a must read. I however lack the courage and I am looking at other models of interest. Great work

David B

Thank you Dave, but remember: nothing ventured, nothing gained. Although this lady is a tough one to master.

 

Here is a picture of the last Bentnick shroud installed on the starboard fore mast.

Now what I need to do, of course, is to add the rat lines. The more I think about those, the more I am inclined to use the contact cement approach I posted somewhere else. I took the little mock-up I made and could punch the ratlines/shrouds with my thumb pretty hard without damage. It is a tough setup.

 

BTW I still have to trim off the ends of the metal futtock stave.

 

As a retired engineer, I really like the idea that Bentnick proposed and used to transfer the loads on the futtock shrouds to the deck via this extra shroud. What it does is to eliminate (reduce) the stress on the two other approaches. One being where the futtock shrouds are tied directly to the main shrouds, the other where the futtock shrouds cross over to the other side and again are tied to main shrouds which already have to carry the brunt of sideways forces on the mast. If the main shrouds were designed today, the extra forces imposed by the upper parts of the mast (via the futtock shrouds) would mean much thicker and stronger shrouds than if those extra forces (stresses) were carried elsewhere. 

Anyway this is an old engineer rambling on.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Modeler12

[capnharv2]

I agree. Of course, if the shrouds were designed today, they'd be carbon fiber and Kevlar.

 

But, if Frigates were designed for today's requirements, they'd look like this

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

 

BTW, thanks for the picture of your Connie's Bentick Shrouds. That's where I am today.

[Modeler12]

Harvey, we should both owe an apology to John Bentinck.
We both spelled it wrong, which was probably not unusual with him, his family and the times they lived in.
But his contributions to the British Navy were good and well remembered.
I just wished he could have put those darn shrouds of his in a better place to get to.

 

Here is another frigate that does much better at sea and land than any of ours. And we had nothing to do with its design.
 

Edited January 18, 2015 by Modeler12

[GLakie]

LOL! And with dive-bomb capability! 

 

Cheers

[Modeler12]

Have any of you ever made a mistake?

 

I finished the fore shrouds and ratlines on the starboard side. Not pretty, but it will do.

Then I was about to add the main brace; like I had done on the port side. The brace there goes from the spar forward and is latched to the fore-shroud at the futtock stave. See picture below.

 

Mistake. I had blindly followed the same rigging that was done for the mizzen spar and 'assumed' the same would be true for the main and fore mast braces. To find the right way I had to refer to the drawings (#7 in the series) and also the book by Lennarth Petersson 'Rigging Period Ship Models'. The second picture below is from his book and shows where those braces should go. Notice also that the topsail braces also go aft.

I will detach the port brace, but will hold off with adding these far-out lines until much later. Meanwhile I do have to add 'sheaves' in the side of the hull far aft.
The reason I want to hold off is that I want to see how these lines might 'interact' with the davits and whale boats that go into the same area. Besides, braces are easy to get to, except for their belaying points. 

 

Suggestion  ------------ # what ever.

Don't assume.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

I corrected my mistake and now have a couple more braces in place. All that means is more confusion about what line goes where.
Even a spider would have nightmares.

 

Suggestion:   If any of you are considering adding sails to this model: don't. It can lead to  . . ..  . .

But it is fun for me.

[dgbot]

Nice catch on that error.

David B

[CaptainSteve]

Dang !! You know I wanna add sails !!

[cog]

I've been reading your last updates. Looking good. Just one thing I came across a few times. You use CA to fix some parts of the rigging (like e.g. ratlines). As far as I learned and know CA will eventually deteriorate the threads, thus in time your rigging will break/fall apart at those spots. Usually white glue is applied (often diluted)

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong

[Modeler12]

I've been reading your last updates. Looking good. Just one thing I came across a few times. You use CA to fix some parts of the rigging (like e.g. ratlines). As far as I learned and know CA will eventually deteriorate the threads, thus in time your rigging will break/fall apart at those spots. Usually white glue is applied (often diluted)

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong

I have heard about this but never experienced it. I still have some old 8mm film that was spliced with Eastman 910 almost 50 years ago and I have not seen it fall apart. True I don't use the film anymore, it just sits in a box. But that will be the case with my model also (if I finish it before the fifty years are over). But by that time I will be in a box.

[Modeler12]

Sometimes I cheat.

There is a bit of difference of opinion in the way some of the lines are attached. For example, the drawings that came with the kit shows how the main yard braces are attached to the main stay one way while Petersson shows it another way. In either case I had to add some blocks that are hooked to another eye bolt. Nothing new; it has been happening a lot. But in this case, the installation of the eye bolts was hard to get to.

 

Instead of drilling the hole and installing the eye bolt with epoxy first, I decided to pre-assemble. The picture below shows how.

I took the block and added the black strop. I then hooked it onto an eye bolt (the type made by twisting wire around a pin!!!). I coated the black line with CA and let it set. Then I was able to bend this line to simulate a wire hook. Now the whole thing is rigid and should be easier to epoxy into the hole where I want it. 

While the thought lingers, this might be a good way to install the cannon rigging, the part that goes to the bulwark.

For now the frigging rigging continues. 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Modeler12

[aliluke]

Hi Jay

Good to see you back. I've been away on summer holidays for a few weeks and missed your return. As always your suggestions are welcomed whether for the Connie or ship models in general.

 

Happy new year my friend!

[Modeler12]

More comments about braces. Please bare with me  . This gets confusing and drawings would help. But let me try with words.

 

I mentioned how the braces for the mainjack go all the way aft. Now come the braces for the fore jack. A whole different story.

The plans that came with the kit show that the braces start at the main stay near the main mast. They go through a block near the tip of the fore jack and back towards the main mast. So far so good. Petersson shows the same thing, but Marquardt in his book shows that it starts from an eye bolt in the topmast cross-tree.

 

When the line comes back, Petersson shows the line going through a block on the main stay and then further back to the deck below where it is belayed along the railing. When I looked at this, it seemed to me that when the main course is set, it would interfere with these braces. I don't like that. Even though I am not including this sail.

 

The plans with the kit shows a similar thing, but they also added another block that is tied to a futtock shroud and then down to the deck. This solves the problem of interference with the main course, but brings up other problems.

 

Braces are a major means of transferring the driving forces from the square sails to the hull. Without them the sails would bellow forward and drag the jack out of wack. So, the braces are thick and strong. In fact, the plans call for lines that equate to more than 1.5 inch thickness. That is too much, in my opinion, and I reduced that to about one inch.

Even so, to have these braces tied to a futtock shroud is not smart. When you vector the forces involved, the stresses are too much for these shrouds. They were intended to hold the topmast in place, not to drive the ship forward. 

 

My approach is to have the braces come to a block tied to the cross-tree on the main mast. Hence the combination eye bolt and block I showed above. This is a bit of an afterthought and the spot was hard to get to on the port side. But it worked. Now I have the clearance for the braces to go down at an angle to the belaying pins on the bulwark.

 

I am curious how others have solved this issue.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Maybe two pictures should be worth more or less?

 

The brace is the horizontal line tied at one end to the main stay and the other end goes to a pin on the deck. With the block underneath the top, all now has a clear line of sight.

 

  

[Modeler12]

One more brace to go. But the spar to which it goes is attached to the fore topmast sail. I still need to install and rig that sail. It will be the last of six.

 

Before I do, I need to refresh my memory what all those lines are that were attached to the sail eons ago. What are they and where do they go? The picture below should help. There are two sets: s/p starboard and port.
 

From the bottom up:
1. The sheet is used to control the set of the sail depending where the wind is coming from. The heavy line goes from the bottom clew down and through a sheave in the spar or jack below it. It takes a lot of force.

2. The bow line is used to pull the leech or edge of the sail forward and control its shape. It goes all the way to the bow sprit.

3. The clew line, leech line and bunt line are used to haul the sail up and furl it. Each line is attached to the sail as shown. The bunt and leech lines share a double block that is attached to the top above. The clew line goes through a block on top of the spar and then down to the deck. All three are slack when sailing.

4. The reef tackle is used to haul part of the sail up and secure it around the spar with the reef lines that are sewn into the sail. It is used in strong winds when the sail area needs to be reduced. The line also goes to a block below the top.

 

Not shown and not used by me are the lift lines. They would be used to raise the spar or tilt it when needed such as in tight quarters in port.

 

[popeye2sea]

In my opinion, it is a mistake to not include the lifts.  They are a major player in the control of the yard.  You would not want to have uncontrolled up and down movement of the yard arms putting strain on the sails and gear.

[Modeler12]

In my opinion, it is a mistake to not include the lifts.  They are a major player in the control of the yard.  You would not want to have uncontrolled up and down movement of the yard arms putting strain on the sails and gear.

Henry, you are absolutely right about lifts being a major player. But early in deciding what I was going to include with the sails, it seemed to me at the time that the lifts were not that important while sailing. I was wrong, but there is no way I can add them at this point. I don't want to add them to the fore mast sails only.

 

What about the braces, Henry. Was I wrong about the fore jack braces? I cannot find a good picture of the ship as it is rigged now. Are the lines that thick, and attached at both ends to the main stay (or a futtock shroud as the plans show)?

[popeye2sea]

I think that what you propose would not be far wrong.  I have a picture of the ship that looks like the leading block is attached to the bibbs under the top.  The brace pendant would be a heavy line (about half the size of the shrouds and the brace itself would be 1/2 to 2/3 of that.  I will try try and attach the picture later.  I am having some trouble with my photo program at the moment (need to resize the image to be able to upload).

 

Oh, I forget to mention that the standing part of the brace starts at or near the collar of the stay (it's hard to tell in the pics that I looked at).

Edited January 24, 2015 by popeye2sea

[Modeler12]

Thanks again you old salt. Big help. Mostly because I am curious and sometimes not able to correct. I still want to come back to Boston to see the old gal as she floats there now.

 

Here we go with installing the fore topsail. I will try to take lots of pictures just for file and those interested. 
The first thing I did was to make a few 'repairs' such as loose reefing lines on the sail. I also forgot to install a block on the spar right above center. When all looked OK, I held the whole mess up against the foremast and taped it in place well below its final resting spot.

 

Then I pulled the halyard line through the block underneath the top, then through the one on the spar and again through the block on the other side. It may be hard to see because of the other lines in the picture. But the idea is that the line goes from one side, through the spar block and back through the block on the other side. The line draped across the sail is the port side halyard. Then the two lines will go to the fife-rail below. They will be the lines that raises the spar and sail into its final position. 
Notice I pulled back on the tape to get to the block on the spar.

But before I do that, I will hold the spar with the masking tape and run the other lines through the blocks above.

But now I have to make dinner. More tomorrow.