Cruizer-class Brig-Sloops of the Royal Navy

[TomShipModel]

In the piece that Chuck posted, The Brig of War Plate does show a narrow strake that is at roughly the midlevel of the gun ports.  However, it is not on the model.  I have seen this same narrow strake on other British 6th rate vessels like the Coventry Class of 28 gun frigates.

 

Very interesting discussion,

 

Tom

[michaelpsutton2]

If you look at the plans for the Larne of 1814 or the Levant of 1713 the arrangement of the planks is very close to that on the Cruizer models. They are of course larger 20 gun, ship rigged sloops. I certainly am not saying they are in anyway connected just visually similar and serve to illustrate what the Cruizer plans would look like if they matched the models

 

 

HMS Cruizer class 1810 web-1

[tomwilberg]

Wood plan of Cruizer Class Sloop needed

 

Hi

I have been contacted, if I had something to identify a possible cruizer sloop wreck. 
So, does anybody know of a „wood plan“ of a cruizer class ship?

I mean those cut through plans were one could see the internal woodwork from?

 

A ship‘s lines plan does not tell much, if you have a worn out shipwreck to identify.

 

Any hints most welcome

Thomas

[druxey]

There are Cruizer class plans on the Royal Museums Greenwich web site. However, to interpret the framing, etc, you need to have quite a bit of knowledge of wooden ship construction for the navy of that time. See, for example:

 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83931.html

[tomwilberg]

Druxey,

 

that much I know about the danish archive, the less I know about the NMM archive.

I wasn‘t able to locate those. So, thank you very much.

 

 

Best regards

Thomas

 

[uss frolick]

You will want to get a copy of the "Modeling the Brig of War Irene" book, based on the Cruiser Class brig HMS Grasshopper, if you're serious:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Modelling-Brig-War-Irene-Ship-Models/dp/B0006C7NRA

[lmagna]

You could get this copy instead. https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30080716358&searchurl=kn%3DModelling%2BThe%2BBrig-of-War%2B%22Irene%22%2BA%2BHandbook%2Bfor%2Bthe%2BBuilding%2Bof%2BHistorical%2BShip-Models%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1

While you don't save much money you do get the fold out set plans. These plans are full modeling size plans and are well done without the staple in the middle. 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by lmagna

[michaelpsutton2]

I have a few questions concerning these brigs:

1.) The NMM has a sail plan for the Sophie of 1809. The description is "late 19th century". Does anyone know what this is about? It appears to be a modern reconstruction. The dimensions do not exactly firt any earlier source.

2.) Were the royals set flying or would you rig braces.

3.) At what point would you have a martingale/dolphin striker?. There seems to be some evidence for setting spritsails and even sprit topsails.

4.) When might you add a topgallant foc'sle.

[uss frolick]

On the expanded outboard planking plan of the Cruiser Class, in this case HMS Primrose, 1807, note how low the anchor-stock-planking extends below the waterline. I thought they only used it for the thicker main-wales.

 

In 1809, Primrose wrecked in a storm on Mistral Rock, with the loss of all hands, but the drummer boy.

 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83932.html

[druxey]

Often the upper strakes of planking below the wale were top and butt or anchor stock as well. No easy to see, but:

 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83495.html

 

as well as the Cruizer class planking expansion you mentioned.

[uss frolick]

I'm guessing that was an expedient to make small pieces of timber do, when larger, proper ones were not available.

[Guest]

“Epervier might make an interesting variation of Caldercraft/Jotika’s Cruizer with the fore and aft platforms and the armament change.  She could also be built as she appeared in either the Royal Navy or the US Navy.  The US Navy had hull drawings made which were redrawn by Howard I. Chapelle for his book The History of the American Sailing Navy.  These drawings also show the changes made for US service: increased mast rake, lowered gun ports and a low rail on top of the bulwarks at the forecastle platform.^1”

 

Hi Dave, I have greatly enjoyed your articles on the Cruizer class. I really liked the idea of using the Epervier as a build idea as it was taken into the American Sailing Navy per the book (one of my favorites).  I have been looking for a long term build POF for myself for a while now.. I am considering a 74 (Montague) but it is huge at 1/4 scale.  The Cruzier has some free high res drawings to use as well as a framing diagram to use and is about 1/2 the size.  I have on order the Naiad book first volume to use as a reference as well.  

I do have the Caldercraft/Jotika Cruzier but don’t want to build a kit.. the drawings are limited to POB  and I wanted to do more.

 

Anyone for an inexpensive kit?  Anyway.. More later as I just downloaded the drawings and will input them into my CAD I think in the next few days.. I will keep my eyes out for your books.  You have a gift in writing.

 

Thanks!~

Guy..

PS… I would like to stay with the USN in my builds around 1812 or so.. too..

 

 

 

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, Treebeard said:

I really liked the idea of using the Epervier as a build idea as it was taken into the American Sailing Navy per the book (one of my favorites).

Hi Guy,

Which drawings do you have?  I found five high resolution plans of Cruizer Class vessels on the Wiki Commons site as well as a low res planking expansion on the RMG site. 

Looking forward to your build!!

Allan

[uss frolick]

There was a two part series of nicely written articles in the NRJ a while back on the history of the Epervier, viz., Vol. 41, No's 2 and 3, June and September, 1996. It was called "Lost By Two Navies: HMS Epervier, A Most Unfortunate Ship", written by J.R. Mc Cleary.

 

I posted transcripts of the British Court of Enquiry for her loss a while back, which is fun to read:

 

 

 

[Guest]

Hi Allan. 

Those are the ones I have. The one of the columbine is very very nice and has a lot of writing for the other builds as well. These are beautiful. Indeed. 

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, uss frolick said:

There was a two part series of nicely written articles in the NRJ a while back on the history of the Epervier, viz., Vol. 41, No's 2 and 3, June and September, 1996. It was called "Lost By Two Navies: HMS Epervier, A Most Unfortunate Ship", written by J.R. Mc Cleary.

 

I posted transcripts of the British Court of Enquiry for her loss a while back, which is fun to read:

 

 

 

Hi Uss Frolick!

Thanks for this.  I am still reading a lot of things but this is great too.. I will read with gusto.. 

Guy

[Guest]

Hi USS Frolick,

What a nice first read.  I will need to get the CD with the articles stated.  I will do this in a month or so, due to a somewhat limited funding.. heh..

 

Thanks for the article again!

Off to Cad.

Guy

[allanyed]

Guy,

Yes, the four of the Columbine 1806 are great!   There are also those of the Argus 1813, Belette 1814, and probably some others,  As there were 52 ships in her class and all being built in private yards, there may be a number of contracts available which will give you scantlings and more information.   If the contracts are of interest contact RMG and the National Archives in Kew to see if they have any available for any ships of the Cruizer class.  You may have to actually list the names of each ship in order to get info.  The NA site is difficult to navigate for me, but you may have better luck.   The RMG site is awful since they reformatted some years back, but they have been great in responding to emails if you can find a contact.  I had a few names there but I am not so sure they are there any more, but you can always start with "plans and photos at rmg. co. uk"

Allan

[AJohnson]

23 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Guy,

Yes, the four of the Columbine 1806 are great!   There are also those of the Argus 1813, Belette 1814, and probably some others,  As there were 52 ships in her class and all being built in private yards, there may be a number of contracts available which will give you scantlings and more information.   If the contracts are of interest contact RMG and the National Archives in Kew to see if they have any available for any ships of the Cruizer class.  You may have to actually list the names of each ship in order to get info.  The NA site is difficult to navigate for me, but you may have better luck.   The RMG site is awful since they reformatted some years back, but they have been great in responding to emails if you can find a contact.  I had a few names there but I am not so sure they are there any more, but you can always start with "plans and photos at rmg. co. uk"

Allan

I agree with Allan, the RMG site is awful now, but the staff are very helpful and really quick to try and help you if they can.  I am currently researching HMS Scylla (1809-1846) a Cruizer-class brigg that had a long and interesting career and was converted into a Ship-rigged sloop.  I am hoping to build a "kit-bash" of Caldercraft's HMS Snake into a representation of Scylla in the later part of her career when ship rigged (1830-1840's) at some point and noted they had a sketch of her, but no picture.  After enquiring and submitting a little request form, the picture of the sketch was up on their site in less than a week!

[AJohnson]

17 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Guy,

Which drawings do you have?  I found five high resolution plans of Cruizer Class vessels on the Wiki Commons site as well as a low res planking expansion on the RMG site. 

Looking forward to your build!!

Allan

Hi Allan, as noted in my post #151, I'm interested in Ship rigged, Sloop versions of the Cruizers (HMS Scylla in particular), but think I might have to settle for plans based on others in the class that were so converted in the 1820's.  It is fascinating to do the research, I have found a treasure trove of information via all the online newspaper archives that are out there now, mostly of interest to historians and Genealogists, but I don't mind piggy-backing off my wife's family history research if I can! 😁

Edited November 30, 2022 by AJohnson

[AJohnson]

There is also this useful thread:-

 

 

[allanyed]

Andrew

The post from nearly 9 years ago may not be valid. Keep in mind that the RMG has changed things and many files (plans, photos, documents) can no longer   be easily found, if at all.  

Allan

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by allanyed

[AJohnson]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Andrew

The post from nearly 9 years ago may not be valid. Keep in mind that the RMG has changed things and many files (plans, photos, documents) can on longer   be easily found, if at all.  

Allan

 

Fortunately they still are, I have gone through all the ones listed in the old link (hunting for snippets about Scylla) and they all are still available on RMG.  Although laborious, typing in the reference codes for the plans still works.  I use RMG a fair bit (mostly out of idle curiosity) it is a huge repository, just not very user friendly! 😑