Charon Boatman of the River Styx by bensid54

[bensid54]

Where can I find pictures of a single rower vessel anytime B.C. I'm making the boatman of the river Styx and need to know what sort of vessel I will be building this year. Thanks in advance.

[druxey]

A rather startling subject heading! Perhaps something along the lines of the illustration?

[thibaultron]

Perhaps, The Sea Of Galillee Boat?

[bensid54]

Druxey that seems to be the theme of other illustrations for the Boatman for the style of build, is the guy at the stern doing the rowing? Thibaultron I'll have to check out the boat you mentioned, thank you. 

[bensid54]

The boat from the bog of Nydam looks like the style I'm thinking of, now to find plans.

[bensid54]

I'm leaning in that direction I think, also have to make it weathered and scary. Should be fun once I get a camera under his hood and of course the head will tilt and turn side to side.

[bensid54]

How do you suppose he would propel his boat? Did he use a pole like a Gondola or a paddle just how would he move his boat based on the boats in those days? I have to figure out those mechanics before I even think about building the hull.

[jbshan]

Here is Michaelangelo's version.  He's more interested in the damned souls and devils than the boat, but Charon has a paddle and you can see a thole pin in the gunwale on the port side.  I suspect since this is a supernatural character, the propulsion wouldn't follow normal laws of physics.  Perhaps he just has to dip the paddle in and the boat goes.

Google Charon and there are lots of different versions.

 

[bensid54]

I'll try that, now because he is Supernatural it could be the boat propels itself and he just acts as a rudder man. That would mean hiding all means of propulsion under his robes, that would be easy to do if I were to use a water jet.   

[bensid54]

Now is the time for brainstorming Charon himself, any ideas will be considered, thanks in advance.

[captainbob]

I would propel it with a small motor and prop and rudder concealed low in the boat, and have him dip the paddle occasionally to appear that he is rowing.  I don't think a single oar would move the model, let alone steer it.

 

Bob

[bensid54]

Thanks Bob, an assist in the form of a rudder and motor is a thought, I'm all in favour of a rudder though. If I were to make Charons oar stroke long enough to propel the boat I think the rudder would make sense.

[RichardG]

I think the propulsion needs to be spooky quiet and not very fast (I assume he didn't zip across the Styx at 50 knots). My suggestion is a motor and prop below the water with Charon having a single oar for steering. 

 

 

This would be quiet and add stability. 

 

I look forward to seeing this build (I enjoyed your last one ). 

 

Richard.

[bensid54]

Thanks for the compliments and ideas, having the running gear under water would reduce noise however if I had to beach it that configuration may give me trouble. Noise is a big factor because I would like to have him go silently along the shore line and turn his head to focus his red LED light eyes on people.

[bensid54]

I won't make it too ghoulish or too creepy but I will give it a certain degree of shock value, I will have a lot of fun surprising those on shore. I'm not building it for a childish fixation on horror or Ghoul shows, I am building it because no one ever does to my knowledge, I never was one to take the beaten path.   

[bensid54]

I think I may have it figured out! As in some images of Charon go he uses a pike pole ( I think that's what they're called) to move his boat slowly up the river Styx. So I thought why not use a pike pole that really isn't, that it would actually be a paddle. I would keep the paddle submerged at all times. How will this work you say? I would have the paddle propel and steer the boat, for movement forward and reverse I would have the paddle 90 degrees to the boat during the power stroke then zero degrees on the return stroke. To steer I would angle the paddle to around 45 degrees to one side or the other of zero paddle angle then the paddle will push water to one side or the other pushing the stern of the boat to one side or the other thereby steering the boat with his pole, I think this could work.

Edited January 1, 2016 by bensid54

[captainbob]

Sounds like an interesting engineering problem.  What scale will you be building in?  I remember seeing a 1:8 scale skiff where the figure sailing the boat turned his head and waved to the people on shore.  Your build will be fun to watch.

 

Bob

[bensid54]

I really have no idea what the scale will be yet Bob, it all depends on the size of the mechanics once I've built them. One thing I would like to know is how big would his boat be so I can get an idea on how big my servos etc. should be. I have a programmable control board on order that should do the trick for paddle angle and a gear reduction motor on order too but I forgot to order the speed control. I may just have the servos do all the motion but that will depend on figuring out how to use the board, lot's of engineering ahead to be sure but I am leaning in the direction of servos.

[bensid54]

The best rendition of Charon I have found is the scene from the Clash of the Titans (1981) in that scene he uses a pole much like what I'm proposing. Now size is a question I have, lets say Charon is six feet tall based on his height how long do you think his boat is?

[Louie da fly]

The classical idea of Charon is that he was just a ferryman . . . as in the images here and here. Maybe a bit forbidding, but not ghoulish.He was part of the ancient world's catalogue of mythical figures, not something to scare kiddies with.

 

On the other hand, tastes have changed and what you portray is totally up to you.

 

Steven

[jbshan]

I looked at several renditions; my guess would be 16 to 18 feet, not more than 20 feet, exclusive of the upturned prow and stern.

Why would he need to be only 6 feet?  He could be a little bigger, yes?  To overawe his passengers?

[bensid54]

Thanks for the info Steven, I guess like many things stories and legends change or become altered to make them more interesting. I'm looking for the shock factor here. I think it will be great fun to put on the Fat Shark goggles and paddle by people beside the shore and have him look in their direction, red LED eyes and all.

 

Thanks jbshan that was the ballpark I was looking for and yes he can be bigger than six feet or even shorter and hunched over. I was also debating whether I should give him a skull and skeleton hands or just have every part of him covered by his cloak except for the LED eyes.

 

I'm going to see if I can find pictures of the Charon that they used in the 1981 version of Clash of the Titans so if anyone has any leads that way I would appreciate the help. 

[captainbob]

This is all I could find.  He is always shrouded in fog and is hard to see.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKsOpYkwqbQ

 

Bob

[uss frolick]

When I read the word Charon, I always think of the 44-gun British ship sunk at Yorktown.

 

When I read the word Styx, I am reminded of:

 

"Come Sail Away ..." and "Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto ..."

 

Oh well, sounds like I got "Too Much Time On My Hands ..."

[bensid54]

Thanks Bob I saw that one and the more I watch the video the more I pick up, I noticed it has a small battering ram at the bow and is shielded like the Bireme, the stern is loosely based on the Bireme too. For hull style I think I want to go with the type used for Viking ships as I've seen in some renditions. The Ferryman uses the pole to push the boat across the river so my one idea will hold water, I'm really starting to lean in that direction. The Ferryman himself will have all the mechanics and electronics under his robe so I think he will end up being a foot tall which will make the boat almost three feet long.

 

uss frolick my favourite of those songs is "Too Much Time On My Hands" back in day I could relate to that song because those were recession years and work was scarce even for a tradesman, my favourite Styx album was "Pieces Of Eight". I'll have to check out that ship you mentioned.

[uss frolick]

HMS Charon was a two-decker 44, and a sister ship to Harold Hahn's HMS Roebuck, and John Paul Jones's prize, HMS Serapis.

[bensid54]

Thanks uss good to know. Patrick if you're around can you post my first video of the Ferryman, I would if I could, thanks in advance.

[bensid54]

The start of Charon, reason I'm starting here with his head is I have to fit a camera in his head then reduce it's size to just fit the camera because the size of his head will dictate the size of the boat. Here is the start of my build.

[bensid54]

Altered Charons head to fit the Fat Shark camera, all the workings in the back will be hidden by the hood of his cloak.

[Canute]

He'll look like a Cylon.