Question of Scale

[mikiek]

My current Niagara build (my first)  is 1:64.   I have 2 kits on the shelf that also happen to be 1:64 . It seems that scale is manageable but still has a reasonable level of detail.

 

I've been looking at a kit that is 1:100 .  The size of the actual boat was about the same size as Niagara. 

 

1:64  vs  1:100 seems like a pretty significant reduction in size so I'm wondering what do you lose at that scale?  Granted all kits will be different, but I would think at the least there would be less rigging. What other kinds of differences do you run into when going smaller?

[Jaager]

For a long time, I did not give scale a lot of thought,  I just accepted 1:48 as the ultimate standard ( 1/4" : 1" ).  This was after I embraced scratch building.

However, this is essentially museum scale.  It allows for a great deal of detail, but the models tend to be a bit large for private scales- especially for vessels larger than 100' LBP.

 

Those of us in the US, who still use English scale instead of metric - the scales tend to fall on set increments below 1/4".

1:64 is 3/16" : 1'.  1:76 is 5/32" : 1'.  1:96 is  1/8" : 1'.    Prior to the microelectronic revolution, these steps made sense.

With the advent of digital, these limits are longer necessary.   With a calculator and a digital caliper one scale is as easy as the next.

 

We seem to tend to think linear and arithmetic .   The components of 1/8" scale model are one half the length width and thickness of 1/4" scale.

BUT, Mother Nature is 3D (4D actually) and the math is Calculus.   The volume of a model at 1:96 is 0.125 times ( 1/8 ) the volume of 1:48.

 

Your 1:64 model is 0.42 of 1/4  and the 1:100 is something like 0.1 of 1/4.   So, the Niagara model is 4 times larger than the 1:100.

 

I have adopted 1:60 as my scale of choice.  The models are 1/2 museum scale even though they are 80% the length.  The problem is that while Porpoise II (1836) 88'  and even Vincennes (1825) 127' are reasonable in size, Stag Hound at 212' will be a monster even at 1:60.

 

1:96 and 1:100 are on the cusp of miniature scale and that is getting to a whole nuther World of skill and way of thinking. 

[mtaylor]

At 1:100 there's a loss of details and the parts are correspondingly tinier.  Much tinier, IMO.   However, there are companies making aftermarket parts for that scale and smaller sizes in PE.  The parts are still tiny, but the detail level just jumps out at you.  

[overdale]

1:96 and 1:100 are on the cusp of miniature scale and that is getting to a whole nuther World of skill and way of thinking. 

 

I think  Jaager's statement sums it up nicely.

When you build at 1/100 and smaller, you have to be prepared for a lot of 'artistic' interpretation. Some things begin to look clumsy if properly modeled at that scale so a 'representation' is required to fool the eye into thinking the detail is there. It's similar to a painter suggesting a figure in the distance in a painting with just a few spots of judiciously placed paint. It usually requires a very different way of approaching the subject to regular model building at larger scales where the details can speak for themselves. Unless you are prepared for it, the results can be more than a little frustrating.

 

 

Dan.

Edited March 3, 2016 by overdale

[mikiek]

Thanks guys - honestly, I'm really liking the 1:64 scale, at least as long as I stay with kits. I have no room to display a 4'-5' model so going larger isn't an option. But it also sounds like going smaller is not a great thing.

 

The kit in question was the Mamoli Lexington. I like the boat and I want to pick up a Mamoli kit while there is still a decent selection. Guess I'll keep looking.

[overdale]

Thanks guys - honestly, I'm really liking the 1:64 scale, at least as long as I stay with kits. I have no room to display a 4'-5' model so going larger isn't an option. But it also sounds like going smaller is not a great thing.

 

The kit in question was the Mamoli Lexington. I like the boat and I want to pick up a Mamoli kit while there is still a decent selection. Guess I'll keep looking.

 

I have seen the kit and it's not great. The small scale really works against it. They suggest using anchor rope stiffened with glue for the decorative head rails 

 

Aeropiccola made a very nice kit of the Lexington in I think around 1/50 scale. There are often kits on Ebay but usually from Europe. Sometimes plans can be bought. I saw a set on ebay just now in the UK for $18.00.

 

From what I remember of the plans, scratch building it would be relatively straightforward as there are no complex fittings you couldn't get from a decent supplier.

 

Dan.

[mikiek]

Cool Dan - never heard of Aeropiccola before. Looks like they are not in business anymore although their kits are still available.  Does anyone know anything about their "Wood fibre" parts??  Is that something like MDF?

 

I didn't see a Lexington but did see an Essex which is another boat I am interested in. I got a little confused - NatureCoast has the Essex and lists it at 42" in length. A German site also sells it but their pix show one of those cut away section models.

 

I have another post regarding the smaller manufacturers. I am going to add Aeropiccolo to that post

[jbshan]

Any Lexington based on Charles Davis' published instructions from the 1930s, which I believe is all of them except the Lumberyard semi-kit recently featured in Ships in Scale magazine, is based on a British Cruiser-class brig.  If you want a representation of the American vessel, go with the Lumberyard/Ships in Scale version.  If you are willing to do a British version, don't call it Lexington and get the Caldercraft model of the Cruiser Class vessel.  I believe they are both 1:64 scale.

[CharlieZardoz]

Dr Feldman's Lexington sold through lumbreyard is more accurate to what the ship actually looked like. Not a kit though just plans and wood (most kits are pretty much wood and plans anyway). Regardding scale be careful many kits which claim a certain scale are actually wrong. Especially the older european kits. Best to research your interest first and check to make sure the kit is an accurate representation of what you are looking for. Me I love 1/64 scale and many kits come in that size including Feldman's Lexington however if you plan on building larger kits one day like frigates downscaling your big ships tp 1/72 may keep your models from taking up too much space and most wont even know

[jbshan]

The Lumberyard semi-kit of Lexington consists of lots of really nice wood, yes, but you also get the conventional 'egg crate' of POB construction.  The woods included are boxwood, swiss pear, maple and small amounts of ebony and apple.

Click on my avatar, go to topics and my model of Lexington from dLumberyard is there.

You'll maybe have to be creative about plans.  The ones I have were blown up from the magazine.  Instructions also you'll have to go back to the magazine, and there was a yahoo group for builders as Dr. Feldman worked things through.

Edited March 5, 2016 by jbshan

[mikiek]

That's a gorgeous build Joel!   Very nice and it looks like they now offer a practicum on CD and a book. I might add that the kit plus specs is very reasonably priced. The "semi-kit" sounds like a good interim step towards scratch building. I think this one is coming home.

 

And thanks for setting me straight on the history.  My impatience showing through. A little more up front research would do me well. I'm sure the British renditions are good kits - I've seen the Caldercraft Cruiser -  but the Continental version is what I was after.

 

Charlie - I'm with you on the 1:64.  They have enough detail to be challenging and still small enough so you don't need an entire wall to display it.

[CharlieZardoz]

Technically Fair American is probably 1/64 scale. The kit says 1/48 but since its based on a model not a plan there is no evidence as to what size she truly was and I happen to believe she would have been closer to the size of Lexington or Rattlesnake than Halifax or Badger (which was also a captured continental privateer) and a Caldercraft kit.

Edited March 5, 2016 by CharlieZardoz

[mikiek]

Hey - a follow up for this. Given I will be building kits for a while and I like 1:64 and we are saying that 1:100 is too small, where do you draw the line? I've seen a 1:85 kit  that I like - Corel Eagle - which I guess is close to in between. There's also a 1:89 that I like. Are these scales going to get weird like the 1:100 or are they manageable?

[mtaylor]

With kits, especially certain manufacturers, the scale is only a "guide"...  They had a box size due to shelf space in stores, so the kits were designed to fit it.  In some cases, 1:85 is actually something like 1:72 or maybe closer to 1:100 depending the ship.  

 

Build the ones you want would be my suggestion.  If you're locked into the ship emotionally, you'll finish it and put in your best effort.