amateur Posted July 30, 2018 Share #61 Posted July 30, 2018 Hi Mike, theWitsen books isa good one, but is for a different audience. The seawatch book is for modelbuilders:drawings and description of shiptypes.The Witsenbook (I have the dutch version) is for those who want more background on dutch shipbuilding in the 17th Century. Witsen uses one type (pinas) to describe the principles. So actually, you can read the book as a kind of monograph on a pinas. The dutch version had drawings a a pinas, I don't know whether ornotthey come with the english version.I still didot order the book onmerchant ships, as taxes and transport costs make it arather pricy business..... Jan Piet, cog and Landlubber Mike 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share #62 Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said: Sorry forgot to ask a question - is the Witsens book a good one? It’s a bit pricey, just wondering whether you think it’s worth it for people that have the Seawatch book? The book from Witsen is excellent. For a guy like me who builds pretty much only Dutch ships, this book is an education for me. Chapter 2 is the biggest and the most detailed. It describes how to build a Pinas in 122 steps. It is highly technical, very detailed in each piece that is part of the ship. The line drawings, and there are many of them, show how it was done. Other chapters discuss what the inventory is for each man on the ship for one year. Contracts for building a ship. Chapter 1 explains how Hoving wrote the book, what is different, etc. Took Hoving 14 years to translate from 17th century Dutch to present day dutch (800+ pages). 200+ pages are relevant to ship building and that is what this book is about. Took him another 3 years to translate from Dutch to English and 3 to build the Pinas following Witsen's instruments. I agree, it is pricy, but personally, worth it. I did get it through Amazon. I plan to build the Pinas. So with this book and the plans from the merchant book I am all set. Plan to build all the merchant ships. First the 1:48 scale and then the1:96 scale which I want to do in 1:48 scale. Just don't know what to do with them once they are all finished. Maybe build a diorama with all of them in it and then beg a naval museum to take it from me. W. F. zu pferde is a beautiful ship. Marcus Jack12477, Piet and cog 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted July 30, 2018 Share #63 Posted July 30, 2018 Thanks guys really appreciate the info. Dutch ships from this period are really cool - a nice change from all the English warships. Thanks again! Piet and cog 2 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share #64 Posted July 30, 2018 #Jan. The English book has the same plans as the merchant book, but they are printed on the pages of the book, so I think too small if you want to build a model of it. #LandlubberMike. Agreed with a 'change of the English ships'. The English wrote everything down and so there are more plans of them. The Dutch did not. The senior shipwright taught the junior shipwright and so on. Very little was written down. So the Boyer I am building is an interpretation from contracts, paintings and etchings. No actual plans. Marcus Jack12477, Piet and cog 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kees de mol Posted July 31, 2018 Share #65 Posted July 31, 2018 Thank you for this beautifull building report of this very interesting merchant ship. Also interesting are your unconventional ways of building. I like it how you find a way to build everything. Keep up the good work! Kind regard, Kees Piet, Jack12477 and cog 3 Quote Current build: Dutch beamtrawler KW88, Pelikaan 1/75 Completed build: Dutch sidetrawler KW49, Antje 1/75 Completed build: Scottisch 10m trawler 1/25 Want to see some real Kitsch... With a capital K?!! Visit my 'museum' here at MSW My blog: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share #66 Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) #Kees, thank you for the wonderful compliment and all the likes from everybody else. There is always a way of creating/building something. If I stuck with being 'conventional', I would be missing out. As long as the boat I am building looks like what I initially planned to built, it does not matter how I got there. Been doing lots of 1st layer planking. Both the bow and stern are a challenge. With the Boyer, the 2nd layer has to be curved to follow the contour of the deck. The top of the railing is also very curved. Start from the top going down to the lowest wale. After that I plan to plank straight towards the keel without using a lot of little pieces of planks. Marcus Edited August 1, 2018 by flying_dutchman2 Spelling mtaylor, John Allen, Omega1234 and 3 others 6 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share #67 Posted August 8, 2018 I have been taking a break from building this week as I have friends over from the Netherlands and showing them Chicago and surrounding areas. Marcus Piet, cog and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted August 9, 2018 Share #68 Posted August 9, 2018 Thought your Dutch was coming through take your time, friends are important, and your build won't sail away ... yet Piet 1 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 11, 2018 Share #69 Posted August 11, 2018 Hi Marcus, May I suggest starting at the lowest wale, and working up/down from there? The location of the wales does have quite an effect on the visual appearnce. Getting their position right after planking might be troublesome: getting it right before planking is easier: you cab draw on the hull until you are happy. getting the other planks in position is easier: they are thinner and easier to handle than that heavy wale. mtaylor, Piet and cog 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share #70 Posted August 13, 2018 On 8/11/2018 at 5:08 AM, amateur said: Hi Marcus, May I suggest starting at the lowest wale, and working up/down from there. I will do what you suggest. It is a good idea because the lowest wale goes all the way to the transom triangle. Marcus Piet and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondras71 Posted August 13, 2018 Share #71 Posted August 13, 2018 Before placing the curved planks, make a paper form, according to it bend the boards sideways and then according to the hull. do not create a clinker surface .. it's a wonderful job. You are going very well! Ondras. cog, mtaylor, Omega1234 and 2 others 5 Quote Ondras. Done : President - https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=177&t=90230 Under construction : Roter Lowe - https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=177&t=114576 Member of the organizing club - https://wchs-c-2023.klom-admiral.cz/en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share #72 Posted August 14, 2018 Thank you for the advice, Ondras. Marcus mtaylor and Piet 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share #73 Posted August 15, 2018 Planking 17th century Dutch ships is an exercise on its own. Dutch ships were planked completely different compared to English, French, Spanish ships, etc. The form of the hull was different so the planking was different (typical Dutch). The book from Rob Napier, Reconditioning an 18th century ship model Valkenisse, retourschip of 1717 and the Utrecht by Hoving plans have detailed drawings how it was planked. I practiced with the 1st layer and I am going to try to plank the 2nd layer like the Valkenisse. I planked the Utrecht somewhat like it. I will master this after a couple of ships. I am getting to the end of the 1st layer and there is a lot of measuring and fitting. I am also very generous with steelers. Furthermore, made a template by drawing the outline of the the Wales on a piece of basswood. Inserted pins every 1/2" following one side of the curve. Took a thoroughly soaked piece of walnut and laid it against the pins. While pushing the wood upwards against the pins nailed the lower line of pins every 1/2" as well and slowly formed a curve. The pieces across the plank are to keep the plank flat on the basswood. The wales will be laminated. Marcus Omega1234, kees de mol, Ondras71 and 2 others 5 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share #74 Posted August 17, 2018 1st layer planking is completed. I have already added some wood filler here and there. Once dry give it a complete sanding and continue to add wood filler if needed. After that start with the lower wale and going up to the raling and then down to the keel. The wales are going to be difficult as they need to be curved in 2 directions. The Utrecht had a similar curvature but with the Boyer it is more extreme. Re-did the wale template as the first time my curve was off and most importantly my Boyer is 21mm longer than the plan. I goofed at the bow. It is longer. Not that it will matter much. I will adjust accordingly. Marcus Omega1234, GrantGoodale, kees de mol and 4 others 7 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share #75 Posted August 23, 2018 Been sanding the 1st layer of planking, slowly. Should be all done next week as I will have lots of time. My wife has a (Epic, which is a medical software) conference up in Wisconsin next week and I am tagging along. We will be staying in a resort, so besides swimming and taking advantage of the free stuff I will sanding the Boyer. Marcus mtaylor, Landlubber Mike, Omega1234 and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted August 24, 2018 Share #76 Posted August 24, 2018 SO you do not need to clean up the dust ... clever mtaylor 1 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share #77 Posted August 24, 2018 12 hours ago, cog said: SO you do not need to clean up the dust ... clever That is the idea. Do it outside on a bench somewhere and if it rains on the balcony of our room. Marcus Omega1234, mtaylor and cog 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share #78 Posted August 27, 2018 My wife is at the conferences and this am I scooped out the resort. We are staying at the Kalahari resort in Wisconsin. Lots of stuff to do and lots of little kids to watch out for. There is a small pool for 21 and older. It is way too busy every where. I am not good with crowds. I set up shop outside close to our room and have been sanding the Boyer for the last 3 hours. It is coming along nicely. The best of all, and what cog said I don't have to clean up the dust Marcus Omega1234, mtaylor and cog 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share #79 Posted September 4, 2018 Completely sanded the hull and it is nice and smooth. Also hollowed out the hull a bit more so the deck fits better. Second planking will be cherry and the wales laminated walnut. I have a source that can supply me with as much cherry as I want and it is free. The planks are 36" x 6" x 1/8" and 1/16". What I like about cherry is that over time it will turn darker. Sort of imitation oak. I have cut planks at 0.5mm and 1mm thick. Both types will be soaked in water and both will be dry fitted with clamps on the hull. I want to see which one fits and looks better. Because the model is large I think I can use the 1mm planks and that will not look clunky. Marcus mtaylor, Omega1234 and Piet 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share #80 Posted September 4, 2018 For the Dutch readers. I was reading the travel magazine from the national geographic the other day and there was a small blurp about the city of Blokzijl in Overijssel. The picture shows a ship called a 'Punter'. That would be an interesting build especially as this type of boat is from around the 17th century. 'Jan', maybe you know more about it. Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 4, 2018 Share #81 Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Google punter and giethoorn This type of ship is a rather common type used well into the seventies for local transport. No sails no rowing. Just pushing a long stick punters are the last ships build shell-first: a fee planks, frames added afterwards, jan Edited September 4, 2018 by amateur mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 4, 2018 Share #82 Posted September 4, 2018 https://www.dezeilpunter.nl/de-bouw-van-een-punter At the bottom of the page is a small film. In dutch, but nice pics mtaylor, cog and Piet 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.L. Posted September 5, 2018 Share #83 Posted September 5, 2018 16 hours ago, flying_dutchman2 said: For the Dutch readers. I was reading the travel magazine from the national geographic the other day and there was a small blurp about the city of Blokzijl in Overijssel. The picture shows a ship called a 'Punter'. That would be an interesting build especially as this type of boat is from around the 17th century. 'Jan', maybe you know more about it. Marcus Jan, I think that last year or in 2016 the Dutch Modelers magazine 'de Modelbouwer' published an article about the build of a punter model. I will check it out next time when I go to the library. G.L. mtaylor 1 Quote G.L. Current projects: Oostends schipje (Ostend shrimper) - scale 1:20 Clipper d'Argenteuil - POF - scale 1/15 - SMALL Completed projects: Norwegian Whale Boat - POF - scale 1/10 - SMALL Anatomy of a boat by G.L. - scale 1/10 - POF - SMALL Day gaff sailing boat with center board - FINISHED - SMALL - scale 1/10 Cross section fishing smack - FINISHED -scale 1:20HMS Triton cross section - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share #84 Posted September 5, 2018 #G. L. Thanks for mentioning this. I would be interested in the month and year of the article. The picture I have from the article has a large punter with 2 sails. The main sale is huge. Marcus Piet and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share #85 Posted September 5, 2018 Started with the bottom wale. Two 1mm each, walnut strips, on top of each other. Tha advantage of building both the mill and Boyer is that when a strip is drying on the boat I can work on the mill. Marcus Piet and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 6, 2018 Share #86 Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) On 9/5/2018 at 12:44 PM, G.L. said: Jan, I think that last year or in 2016 the Dutch Modelers magazine 'de Modelbouwer' published an article about the build of a punter model. I will check it out next time when I go to the library. G.L. possible, I ended my subscription two years ago, as the magazine evolved into a direction that is not mine (no more old fashioned building articles, but lots of technical 3D printing stuff). Not worth the money for me anymore. I checked they have a Zuiderzee-punter in their drawings-archive. @Marcus: the sail is large, but don't be mislead: the largest punter was somewhere between 6 and 7 meters. Not huge at all. Jan Edited September 6, 2018 by amateur Piet, G.L. and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share #87 Posted September 6, 2018 Jan, Here follows a picture of the magazine and I made two sketches of what the picture sort of looks like. Marcus mtaylor and Piet 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share #88 Posted September 6, 2018 Back to the Boyer. The wales on this boat are noticeable thick so I have added a third layer. Above that layer is a strip of cherry. The wales are a challenge but with lots of moving it slightly up or down and soaking it for more than a week in water, I can position it correctly Marcus Piet, mtaylor and Omega1234 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 7, 2018 Share #89 Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) Hi Marcus, whatever ship that is, I don't know, but it is certainly not a punter, (at least not what is called punter in the Netherlands). The same holds for the ship to the left. It looks more like a tjalk to me (or it could be a non-dutch ship. It could be a german inland sailing ship) Edit: Second thiught: it is most certainly a coastal/inland sailer, a klipper. You need the form of the bow ro be sure, it could also be a tjalk, but the rudder is slightly too small for a tjalk. Klippers have huge main-sails, and large cargo holds. Not wooden ships, but steel ones, and designed somewhere at the beginning of the previous century.(around 1880-1900) Jan Edited September 7, 2018 by amateur Added pic Piet and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share #90 Posted September 7, 2018 Jan, Thanks for the clarification. Looking back to the description, here is what it says. Blokzijl : built around a horseshoe harbor, this largely 17th century gem in the eastern province of Overijssel comes surrounded by lakes, ponds and canals, and is fittingly known for its water sports. The local punter boats can be rented if you want to tour the boggy waterworld, and hiking routes lead through the area's Weeribben-Wieden national park. I'll continue to search on a future date Marcus Piet and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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