marktiedens Posted October 14, 2014 Share #1351 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Hello Matti One thing to keep in mind is the ratlines are usually the smallest diameter rope on the ship.I use small diameter sewing thread.At your scale you would never see the twist of the rope.Hope that helps.Also you might try doing some with both a clove hitch & a simple overhand knot.I find it`s easier to get a naturally looking sag with an overhand knot even though it`s not historically correct. /Mark Edited October 14, 2014 by marktiedens NAZGÛL 1 Quote current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragzz Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1352 Posted October 15, 2014 vary nice work that u are doing keep it up NAZGÛL 1 Quote this is my dry docks side build hms victory/corel http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4698-hms-victroy-by-dragzz-corel-scale-198/ side build waiting on parts /king of the mississippi/ al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3490-king-of-the-mississippi-by-dragzz-al-scale180/?hl=%20king%20%20the%20%20mississipp current build mare nostrum al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8125-mare-nostrum-by-artesania-latina-scale-135-by-dragzz-small/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share #1353 Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks for the suggestion Mark, I'll keep that in mind! What do you mean with not see the twist of the rope? Cheers dragzz! Thanks for the likes also everyone! /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSteve Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1354 Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Just a suggestion to consider, Matti, but I have seen at least one builder here one MSW who has sewn a thinner thread straight through the shrouds. This is INSTEAD of tying all those clove-hitches. I think they tie the line off at each end with a clove-hitch - plus a spot of glue. I've never tried this method (I used to have nightmares involving being swarmed by clove-hitches), but it would make your job of creating sag a lot easier. Edited October 15, 2014 by CaptainSteve NAZGÛL 1 Quote CaptainSteve Current Build: HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft) My BathTub: Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models) Log: Queen Anne Barge (an build log) Bounty Launch (Model Shipways) Log: Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve Apostol Felipe (OcCre) HMS Victory (Constructo) Check It Out: The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy Website: The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share #1355 Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks for the suggestion Steve! Yeah I found a thread here suggesting that. I'm pretty sure I would mess up the shrouds with that method. And for me its something of an aesthetic decision, like adding nails to the hull or not. Or not adding any chaulking between the weatherdeck planks. I don't really agree that you would not see any knots where the ratlines cross the shrouds. I see it even on smaller reference pics. I do agree that the knots in this scale are slightly to big, but I prefer that to no knots. I hope to get a glose color match between the shrouds and the ratlines and that this would make the knots less prominent. Cheers! /Matti mobbsie, themadchemist and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSteve Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1356 Posted October 15, 2014 I agree ... I also like seeing knots. OK. How about combining ideas ?? Sew your thin rat-line thread through ... create the sag as you want ... spot glue the ends ... THEN, tie a clove-hitch knot over each shroud/rat-line juncture. NAZGÛL 1 Quote CaptainSteve Current Build: HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft) My BathTub: Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models) Log: Queen Anne Barge (an build log) Bounty Launch (Model Shipways) Log: Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve Apostol Felipe (OcCre) HMS Victory (Constructo) Check It Out: The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy Website: The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim I. Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1357 Posted October 15, 2014 Stunning work! - Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktiedens Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1358 Posted October 15, 2014 Matti - rope is made by twisting several strands of thread together on a rope walk. You would not see this twist on simple sewing thread without a magnifying glass. Maybe someone else could explain it better than me. /Mark NAZGÛL 1 Quote current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share #1359 Posted October 15, 2014 Steve, sounds like it could work but I'll go with the clove-hitches and CA on a toothpick. Thanks Tim! Mark, ah, yeah I get what you mean. They look like this close up on the original: I agree the twists would not be very obvious at this scale. /Matti mobbsie and CaptainSteve 2 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanV Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1360 Posted October 15, 2014 Did you consider to use a mixture of the white wood glue with water (50/50%) and then fix each knot with a small drop of this mixture using a small old brush consider that CA might break after several years and this is a very hard glue connection which can also break after touching once you are finished. this is my experience as well from several experienced builders in the Netherlands, we try to not use CA on shipmodels except when all other glues cannot be used I am using CA only to make a needle from the beginning of a rope so this makes it a lot easier to have the rope in small openings from blocks etc. NAZGÛL 1 Quote Jan V. current build: Vasa-1628 Corel / Battle Station Mantua/Panart, previous: Statenjacht / Cross section HMS Victory / diorama shipyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share #1361 Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah, I did Jan. But after testing CA, I felt it worked well for me, as I felt I can shape it pretty well with it. I've used CA for a long time and actually haven't had any problem with it going fragile with time on the older models or stuff I used it on. I even used it when making the strings (basically the same material as this thread) for my sons homemade toy crossbows and bows, and as long as it isn't in a straight bend, it works well, they shoot them alot and the strings still hold up well. Considering how fragile the model is alltogether, I plan to not let anything on it to be touched. Thanks for your input though! /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadchemist Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1362 Posted October 15, 2014 On that last picture of the shroud... is that a cap of some sort on the end of the shroud rope end? That's a great detailed picture of the deadeye wrap and seizing and the ratlines look smaller then the seizing lines. The shroud also appears served above the last seizing, did it rub the railing on the way up? Do you have a pic further up the shroud Matti, I'm curious how far up the serving goes.... NAZGÛL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share #1363 Posted October 15, 2014 Keith, To me it looks like a piece of leather or fabric used as a cap yeah. Here is another showing that area, not as upclose, but pretty clear: /Matti mobbsie 1 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadchemist Posted October 15, 2014 Share #1364 Posted October 15, 2014 I figured it was a leather cap to keep water from wicking into the shroud end and causing rope swelling. In that second picture Its hard to tell. I saved the large photo to the desktop and expanded it but it pixelates a lot, but it appears that the shrouds a served all the way up. HUM, ...also on the lower shroud where they wrap the deadeye and are seized, it appears wormed, but not parceled or served. double HUM. Wonderful photos Matti. You definitely have an advantage with those photos to build from. NAZGÛL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share #1365 Posted October 16, 2014 Yeah, it's great Keith. Last time I went to Stockholm I stopped by the museum and took pics of the things that was upcoming in the build. Here's a bigger version of the picture so you can see better. /Matti themadchemist 1 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted October 16, 2014 Share #1366 Posted October 16, 2014 Hi Matti, There is no substitute for the Mk1 eyeball in my opinion Matti, yes we get the magnifiers but there is always a certain distortion to them, your eye has stood you in good stead so far Matti and I see no reason why it shouldn't continue to do so. You'll know when your ratlines are right so have faith in your eyeball and knowledge. Vasa is looking superb mate. Be Good mobbsie Salty Sea Dog 1 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share #1367 Posted October 16, 2014 Cheers mate! I'm bound to get some misstakes as it's new for me, but I hope they will not be crucial. /Matti mobbsie and tasmanian 2 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sea Dog Posted October 16, 2014 Share #1368 Posted October 16, 2014 Congrats on reaching 100 pages! Each page has been a treat. Thanks and keep up the amazing work! NAZGÛL and maggsl_01 2 Quote -Buck Current build: AL Morgan's Whaleboat (1st build) Kits in the ships locker: I cannot confirm nor deny that there may be a few kits in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share #1369 Posted October 16, 2014 Thank you Buck, it's been great fun! /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share #1370 Posted October 17, 2014 Hey all! Ok so I made the ratlines for the starboard side of the mainmast. Lots of beginner misstakes, but it was quite enjoyable work. To be honest shaping the dead eyes and metal parts for them was more challenging on the nerves as there where many stages. Once these are on you have a result. I like that as it gives energy to continue. I decided to do not go by a template, but did them freehand, by the eye and tried to look at the reference instead. I did end up with more rows then the original at the museum. I still need to weather the ratlines and give a light coat of varnish to hide the CA but this is where Ï'm at now. /Matti firdajan, CaptainSteve, ScottRC and 27 others 30 Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponto Posted October 17, 2014 Share #1371 Posted October 17, 2014 ...splendid,... you're a natural (and fast)..... JP NAZGÛL 1 Quote Built & De-Commissioned: HMS Endeavour (Corel), HMS Unicorn (Corel), Abandoned: HMS Bounty (AL) Completed : Wappen Von Hamburg (Corel), Le Renommee (Euromodel)... on hold Current WIP: Berlin by Corel On Shelf: HMS Bounty (Billings), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share #1372 Posted October 17, 2014 Thank you very much JP! /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadchemist Posted October 17, 2014 Share #1373 Posted October 17, 2014 Fast and beautiful as always, I especially like the ratlines against the sky and the starboard bow photos. Autumn has arrived, and the WASAN is much further along. Fantastic Art Matti NAZGÛL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share #1374 Posted October 17, 2014 Cheers Kevin! I'm not very fast usually,. /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBROOK Posted October 17, 2014 Share #1375 Posted October 17, 2014 Your ratlines look great mate I always knew you wouldn't have any difficulties Congrats on reaching 100 pages,it is a great pleasure to follow your journey from the start Kind Regards Nigel NAZGÛL 1 Quote Currently working on Royal Caroline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share #1376 Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks for the kind words Brian and Nigel! And thanks for the likes everyone! /Matti Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted October 17, 2014 Share #1377 Posted October 17, 2014 She looks very beautiful. You're doing a wonderful job. NAZGÛL 1 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktiedens Posted October 18, 2014 Share #1378 Posted October 18, 2014 Nicely done. I also spaced mine by eye to what looked correct, I didn`t count mine to see if I had the same number as the original . Since none of the original rigging survived I assume the museum took their best guess when rigging them,so it`s possible yours is more correct than theirs . /Mark NAZGÛL 1 Quote current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAZGÛL Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share #1379 Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Cheers Louie and Mark! Yeah, you're right, Mark, as long as they would be "usable for climbing" you should have some degree of freedom. I started out with an estimation, but as soon as I started felt that I needed to just do them by eye to try to control the look and how the lines aligned to eachother. Thanks again for the likes, everybody! /Matti Edited October 18, 2014 by NAZGÛL Quote Billing Boats Vasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragzz Posted October 18, 2014 Share #1380 Posted October 18, 2014 vary nice work u have done there cant wait to see it all done NAZGÛL 1 Quote this is my dry docks side build hms victory/corel http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4698-hms-victroy-by-dragzz-corel-scale-198/ side build waiting on parts /king of the mississippi/ al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3490-king-of-the-mississippi-by-dragzz-al-scale180/?hl=%20king%20%20the%20%20mississipp current build mare nostrum al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8125-mare-nostrum-by-artesania-latina-scale-135-by-dragzz-small/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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