Reale De France by fmodajr - FINISHED - Corel - Scale 1:60

[fmodajr]

14 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Hi Frank,

 

The scale of the kit guns does not bother me, and in fact, I find them to be quite nicely proportioned castings.  I like them as they are.  Your build had me browsing Heller Reale builds and the artillery on that kit is also quite stout.

 

Some have posited the opinion that the Van de Veldes, for example, may have exaggerated the scale of artillery on their ship portraits, but I do not believe this is so.

 

The Galleys were, in fact, intended to be fighting ships, and not merely transports for the king. 

Hubac,

 

Thank you very much for you your input and knowledge. Your thoughts definitely put my mind at ease!

I am swinging back around to using the kit supplied cannon, as you suggest.

 

Thanks again,

Frank

 

[fmodajr]

8 hours ago, marktiedens said:

Hi Frank.   The cannons don`t look that bad to me - maybe just a tad big,but with this kit being 1/60 scale I don`t think they are that far off.   But,as they say,my opinions are usually worth what you paid for them.   Go with whatever you like better & no one would ever know the difference after seeing the great hull work you are doing!  

 

Mark

Hi Mark.

Thanks for visiting and for your comments.

Your opinions are definitely worth more than you think

In reading Hubac's post, along with your thoughts, i'm feeling better about using the kit's cannon.

Thanks again,

Frank

 

[fmodajr]

2 hours ago, Clark said:

Hi Frank, I am not as experienced as Hubac s Historian. But just on logical grounds: I would draw the ropes for the middle carriage the other way around the wheels: outside in. At present the ropes get in close contact with the carriage wich would damage them (when the ship would really be in fight).

Clark

Thanks Clark,

Easy enough to do! I'll try reversing them, before I add the cannon, to see how they look!

Frank

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by fmodajr

[fmodajr]

Hi,

I am continuing to finish up the lower platform.

Next to the two smallest carriages are the windlass for the anchors.

As with the carriages, I glued the pattern onto the wood and cut and shaped them.

The windlass or pulleys are not rectangular. The width is narrower in the back than in the front.

 

Located in-between is the pulley block. Looking at a YouTube video illustration, it showed the anchor line being raised up with the sheaves (see red arrow). When the anchor itself reached the sheave, a line was run thru the  hole behind the sheave (see green arrow) and tied to the anchor end and anchor line. At this point the anchor line was pulled and the whole block lifted up and flipped back, allowing the anchor stem to sit on the windlass. 

 

Type of anchor used and supplied with the kit. I will rig up the anchor later in the build.

 

Photo showing the windlass installed on both ends, along with bitts on each side of the windlass used to tie down anchor lines (green arrows).  As was mentioned in earlier posts, we can see that everything on this lower platform is very tight to each other.

 

The next step in the build is to frame the upper deck (above the cannon deck in the last photo).

These are the parts (see next photo) supplied by the Corel kit to do the framing. Lucky for me, I will also follow the methods of other very nice Reale builds on this website, and NOT use these.  As mentioned many times, I have the "Fleur de Lis" plans, which have drawings of the real framing method. I will try to follow these plans and hopefully build more authentic beams, posts, and knees  

 

Thanks again for everyones likes and comments! Appreciated!

Frank

 

 

[md1400cs]

Hi Frank,

 

Just catching up - As was mentioned I agree that the kit provided guns look better. As you know those others are English - The French would go nuts with English guns on that ship haha

 

Your build looks really great.

 

 

[fmodajr]

9 hours ago, md1400cs said:

Hi Frank,

 

Just catching up - As was mentioned I agree that the kit provided guns look better. As you know those others are English - The French would go nuts with English guns on that ship haha

 

Your build looks really great.

 

 

Michael,

Thanks for stopping by!

We wouldn't want to upset the French, so i'll stick to the kit guns!! Lol!!

best,

Frank

[fmodajr]

Hello,

I started work on the upper platform right above the cannon deck.

 

The Corel kit provided preformed pieces as shown on this photo.

I thought I would try making the platform more realistic and I took a lot of ideas from the "La Fleur de Lis" plans that I have.

 

Kit provided pieces:

I created a new pattern and cutout the shape of the main beam that will be the primary support for the platform.

This front beam is shown on the Corel plan to sit on top of the two black posts that I made early in this build. I didn't think this was correct, so using the "Fleur de Lis" plan as a guide, I had made the two vertical posts 2 mm taller than the Corel plan showed and notched the cross beam for a better fit.

I made new posts and ribs, keeping the same size as the Corel pieces.

 

This photo shows the added notches on the tops for the decking support beams.

 

On 2 of the vertical posts are 1 mm round pegs for what I assume are vertical ladders to reach the upper platform

 

The front main beam painted and installed

 

The vertical post assemblies installed

And finally, the deck support beams installed

In my haste to build this upper platform I didn't notice, until after the fact, that there are a couple of rigging blocks for the foremast, near the gun deck, that I should have probably installed first. I'm pretty sure I can squeeze in there and add them now, or soon, before finishing the upper deck planks. 

 

Thanks again for visiting and I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday season!!

 

Frank

[Clark]

Frank,

perfect as expected. Is there a special scroll saw you are working with? Please do not misunderstand me: the outcome results from your skills but a good saw  may help.

Clark

[fmodajr]

1 hour ago, Clark said:

Frank,

perfect as expected. Is there a special scroll saw you are working with? Please do not misunderstand me: the outcome results from your skills but a good saw  may help.

Clark

Hi Clark,

I do have a scroll saw on my work bench, but I find my "Byrnes Table Saw" works much more accurately for the slots and cutouts and it is my main "go to" tool.

 

Frank

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Despite the oversight on the blocks, Frank, your upgrades to this forward structure are really fantastic.  With just a little extra effort, you have improved the kit immeasurably.  Well done!

[fmodajr]

8 minutes ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Despite the oversight on the blocks, Frank, your upgrades to this forward structure are really fantastic.  With just a little extra effort, you have improved the kit immeasurably.  Well done!

Thanks Hubac,

Even though they are not the same ship, it is very reasonable to believe that a lot more research was done by the author of the "Fleur de Lis" Monograph than was done on the Corel kit.

So my build looks like it will have some elements of both plans. 

I'm also having some fun trying to work with both plans and it is making me use my brain a little bit more in the thought process!!

Happy Holidays,

Frank

[md1400cs]

Frank,

 

Looking indeed brilliant.

[fmodajr]

4 hours ago, md1400cs said:

Frank,

 

Looking indeed brilliant.

Michael,

Thank you and thanks for visiting.

Best wishes to you and yours this holiday season!!

talk soon,

Frank

[Clark]

On 12/6/2019 at 9:18 PM, Hubac's Historian said:

I copied a picture of the text into my Google Translate App.  This is what it came up with:

 

La Réale - Royal Palaces and Galley Vows by Florian Vitz The viewer sees a detailed drawing of a ship with PI.  | I is numbered.  Subtitled is the drawing with the words "Marine, Dessein d'une Galere à la Rame nommée la Réale" .² Based on the accompanying text from the maritime area of the Encyclopédie and the explanation at the bottom left edge of the picture, the observer learns that the drawing of M  Belin was made.3 Jacques-Nicolas Belin (1703-1772) was a well-known nautical cartographer, 4 who played a major role in the creation of maritime articles such as the corresponding encyclopédie (planches) prints.5 However, the present  Image panel around a copy of Belin's original drawing.  Consequently, the illustrator is the Louis-Jacques Goussier (1722-1799) image-plate.  He was a mathematician, draftsman and Diderot's mechanical arts assistant.7 The right side (starboard) of the ship can be seen.  At the stern of the ship (A), the observer sees some elaborate engravings that can be recognized on the outside.  Along the railing at the stern are two figures with wings recognizable.  Next is one

Hi Frank, Hi Hubac;

meanwhile I received an answer from the University of Duisburg (not Düsseldorf). It describes  a picture of  Encyclopédie of Diderot and d'Alembert. Is this the same you took your pinterest photo from? Frank, do you have the book of Mondfeld (picture)? There are plans inside form which you can delineate the size of cannons. Clark

[RickyGene]

Happy to see additional postings of this thread.  To be honest, this is my favorite thread following right now.  Look forward to more.

Rick

[fmodajr]

8 hours ago, RickyGene said:

Happy to see additional postings of this thread.  To be honest, this is my favorite thread following right now.  Look forward to more.

Rick

Thanks for visiting and for your kind comments Rick!

 

I'm working on a time consuming area of the model right now and I'll should be posting an update in a couple of weeks.

 

Frank

 

 

[fmodajr]

On 1/3/2020 at 6:57 AM, Clark said:

Hi Frank, Hi Hubac;

meanwhile I received an answer from the University of Duisburg (not Düsseldorf). It describes  a picture of  Encyclopédie of Diderot and d'Alembert. Is this the same you took your pinterest photo from? Frank, do you have the book of Mondfeld (picture)? There are plans inside form which you can delineate the size of cannons. Clark

Thanks Clark,

Is this a book on the "Reale de France"?

If so, i'll try to find the book.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[Clark]

On 1/4/2020 at 2:31 PM, fmodajr said:

Thanks Clark,

Is this a book on the "Reale de France"?

If so, i'll try to find the book.

 

Thanks,

Frank

Hi Frank, the books shows and describes "La Dracène" (1675) but there is a table in the book on the cannon diameter used on galleys. As for the "Coursier", the cannon above the keel line: 36 pounds cannonball; 16.00 cm diameter cannonball; 290 cm length of barrel. // Cannons in La Reale: 36 pounds, 24 pounds (244 cm), 18 pounds (229 cm).

Link to a picture of La Reale can be found in my blog.

Clark

[Clark]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:57 PM, fmodajr said:

Hello!

I have started work on the main deck.

First was to install the forward and stern yokes.

Getting these two pieces right is important, I feel, because all the other deck supports will be positioned and aligned between these two yokes.

 

Trial fit of the fwd yoke

 

Trial fit of the stern yoke

 

Painted and installed yokes

 

Next was to make and install the 2 bitts near the bow.

 

The Corel plans show the beam in the photo below just laying on top of the 2 bitts.

This didn't look right to me. I check the plans on the Fleur di Lis (Gerard Delacroix) and it showed that the bitts were stepped into the upper beam. So I left the bitts 2 mm higher (as shown in the photo) and I will later notch that upper beam to accept the bitts

 

Finished Bitts, Painted and Installed.

 

Thanks for visiting,

Frank

 

Frank, when looking on the old plans, it seems that the foremast in galleys was not vertical but declined toward the bow. Did you calculate the decline when drilling the tubes in the bitts? The question arised when I was thinking about my best way to proceed. Morever, in the plan I saw, the foremast is fixed at the inner side of the keel. Thus there should be a hole in deck sourrounded by a support. Can you delineate that from your plans of the Fleur?

Clark 

[fmodajr]

8 hours ago, Clark said:

Frank, when looking on the old plans, it seems that the foremast in galleys was not vertical but declined toward the bow. Did you calculate the decline when drilling the tubes in the bitts? The question arised when I was thinking about my best way to proceed. Morever, in the plan I saw, the foremast is fixed at the inner side of the keel. Thus there should be a hole in deck sourrounded by a support. Can you delineate that from your plans of the Fleur?

Clark 

Hi Clark,

 

I am away this week. When I get home next week I will send you a photo of the foremast layout of the "Fleur de Lis" monograph. It shows the foremast mounted on the left or port side of the centerline. I will do the same. The Fleur de Lis plans shows only 1 hole going thru the upper deck. (The port side) NOT two openings as on the Corel plans. The opening is supported by a large knee built into the upper deck. It will be easier to explain once you see the detailed sheet. I have left room on the upper deck beams to be able to locate the hole where the foremast will go with a slight angle. I will figure the exact placement before I finish planking that upper deck.We'll discuss next week.

 

Thanks,

Frank

 

[Clark]

12 hours ago, fmodajr said:

Hi Clark,

 

I am away this week. When I get home next week I will send you a photo of the foremast layout of the "Fleur de Lis" monograph. It shows the foremast mounted on the left or port side of the centerline. I will do the same. The Fleur de Lis plans shows only 1 hole going thru the upper deck. (The port side) NOT two openings as on the Corel plans. The opening is supported by a large knee built into the upper deck. It will be easier to explain once you see the detailed sheet. I have left room on the upper deck beams to be able to locate the hole where the foremast will go with a slight angle. I will figure the exact placement before I finish planking that upper deck.We'll discuss next week.

 

Thanks,

Frank

 

Hi Frank, thanks for answering such rapidly. Meanwhile I tried to transfer the foremast decline shown in the Encyclopédie of Diderot and d'Alembert grafic into the corel plans. Althought the waterline may be not congruent, it shows that  the formast deviates 9-10 degree from the vertical axis (my degree digits on the plan are not correct, forgot to erase them). I think that deviation is necessary due to the special handling of the lateen sails. Similar deviation can be seen in xebecs and dhows. The upper left picture shows part of the Mondfeld plan of La Dracene with a similar deviation from the vertical axis. I do not know why Corel did not follow the old pictures but I think definitely that it is a mistake.

Regarding the fixation of the foremast in the main deck I cannot imagine that it is strong enough to counteract the enormous force produced by the big sail. The number of shrouds is also limited.  In addition: one side of the bitt is open also weakening the fixation. Thus I am quite convinced that the plan of La Dracene is quite correct: fixation of the formast at the keel line.

Do you know why the foremast could be both on the starboard and port side?

[Clark]

Just one comment to my calculation: 9-10 degree deviation sums up both the devation of the foremast (6-7) and the slope of the deck (3-4).

[fmodajr]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:58 AM, Clark said:

Hi Frank, thanks for answering such rapidly. Meanwhile I tried to transfer the foremast decline shown in the Encyclopédie of Diderot and d'Alembert grafic into the corel plans. Althought the waterline may be not congruent, it shows that  the formast deviates 9-10 degree from the vertical axis (my degree digits on the plan are not correct, forgot to erase them). I think that deviation is necessary due to the special handling of the lateen sails. Similar deviation can be seen in xebecs and dhows. The upper left picture shows part of the Mondfeld plan of La Dracene with a similar deviation from the vertical axis. I do not know why Corel did not follow the old pictures but I think definitely that it is a mistake.

Regarding the fixation of the foremast in the main deck I cannot imagine that it is strong enough to counteract the enormous force produced by the big sail. The number of shrouds is also limited.  In addition: one side of the bitt is open also weakening the fixation. Thus I am quite convinced that the plan of La Dracene is quite correct: fixation of the formast at the keel line.

Do you know why the foremast could be both on the starboard and port side?

Hello Clark,

 

Sorry it has took me a while to get back to you. I have been away.

So, looking at the plans for the "Fleur de Lis", you will see that they show the foremast dropping in on the left side of the centerline only. The mast opening is supported by a large horizontal knee (Item 27 in the photo). This makes a lot of sense to me. There must have been a lot of stress on the foremast at this spot, thus requiring a large knee. The Reale de France shows openings on both sides of the centerline, with NO knee.

I think I will follow the "Fleur de Lis" plans for this area.

As for the foremast angle placement, the "Fleur de Lis" plans show the mast just about perpendicular to the waterline (maybe a half degree forward)

 

If you follow the curve of the main deck towards the bow of the ship, the foremast shows about 4 degrees forward from the deck curve. I will try to follow these plans. (Fleur de Lis).

If you look closely at my black painted posts, you will see that the c'bore is made slightly off (foreword of the bottom surface (the deck camber) and is parallel to the vertical edge. This should accommodate the 4 degree pitch the the mast just fine.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[fmodajr]

Hello,

In trying to figure out how to construct the upper platforms mid ship, I borrowed some techniques of other fine logs of the Reale. Thank you all!

 

First I cut out and finished the 59 upper supports from the plan pattern. As you can see in this photo, I made these pieces .100 (2 1/2 mm) longer than the pattern shows.

 

Next I cut  2 long pieces of wood that will serve as the base for the upper deck planks. The base pieces are supposed to be .500 (1/2 inch) wide, but I made them only .400 wide (10 mm) I will show why.

 

Now I attached a strip of wood, the same thickness as the board above, but only .100 wide (2 1/2 mm). I did this so the 59 upper platform pieces will have an edge to set in with some glue. I marked and cutout where each platform piece will sit. The total width will end up at .500 wide.

 

Test fitted the pieces.

 

Now I painted the underside of the 59 pieces and the long strip. (Painted the underside just in case 20 years from now, my grandson (Due to be born in 2 weeks) decides to have a look from the underside of the ship lol!)

 

Long strip glued to the model

 

30 pieces of the upper platforms added to the starboard side.

 

Finished painted.

The unpainted area is where the upper deck planking will go.

 

Just noticed a mistake that is easy to correct.

The 3 slots on the strip of wood at the green arrows should be where the blue arrows are. The outer edge.

I will correct before applying the deck planks. Oh well!!

 

Now to repeat the same on the port side of the model.

There will be 1 less support on the port side, so the cooking platform can be installed.

 

Thanks,

Frank

 

 

 

 

[md1400cs]

Frank,

This kit is way above my skill set - really enjoying following your excellent work. It's nice to dig into something totally "new" keeps this hobby stimulating IMO.

Your research is certainly also part of the pleasure of your current log.

Cheers,

 

 

[fmodajr]

7 hours ago, md1400cs said:

Frank,

This kit is way above my skill set - really enjoying following your excellent work. It's nice to dig into something totally "new" keeps this hobby stimulating IMO.

Your research is certainly also part of the pleasure of your current log.

Cheers,

 

 

Thank you Michael.

This kit is deceptive. On the surface, it doesn't seem that hard of a build, but the ship has many layers on top of layers (from deck up) and I have to be very careful to build in the correct order or layer. For instance, the plans call for building the upper bow platform over the cannon (in which I completed the framing). As I mentioned previously, I spotted blocks that needed to be added (later according to the plans). But how would I have gotten in there if I had planked over the frames I built? 

Before I plank the finished frames above the carriages, I should install the cannon and the metal caps over the cannon pins. But if I install the cannon now, it will be much more difficult to place the intricate bow planking in front of the cannon because the front of the cannons would overhang, so i'll have to do the bow planking first. etc. etc.

I am slowly realizing that I can't just follow the order of the build that the kit instructions tell you to.

Having to keep thinking things through. But that's also the FUN part of the build

Thanks for visiting,

Frank

 

[Clark]

9 hours ago, fmodajr said:

Thank you Michael.

This kit is deceptive. On the surface, it doesn't seem that hard of a build, but the ship has many layers on top of layers (from deck up) and I have to be very careful to build in the correct order or layer. For instance, the plans call for building the upper bow platform over the cannon (in which I completed the framing). As I mentioned previously, I spotted blocks that needed to be added (later according to the plans). But how would I have gotten in there if I had planked over the frames I built? 

Before I plank the finished frames above the carriages, I should install the cannon and the metal caps over the cannon pins. But if I install the cannon now, it will be much more difficult to place the intricate bow planking in front of the cannon because the front of the cannons would overhang, so i'll have to do the bow planking first. etc. etc.

I am slowly realizing that I can't just follow the order of the build that the kit instructions tell you to.

Having to keep thinking things through. But that's also the FUN part of the build

Thanks for visiting,

Frank

 

Hi Frank

First of all, thank you for your response regarding fixatiion and angle of foremast. I would fully agree with you that the fixation shown in the Corel plans is not strong enough. The plan of Fleur de Lis provides a much better solution. Meanwhile I tried to gather old paintings and drawings of this galley type but none of them really shows the way the foremast was fixed. I have finished a xebec last year with a very strong and multiple layered fixation of the foremast. I cannot believe that the fixatiion of the Reale foremast is much weaker than that of a xebec. Regarding the angle of formast in galleys, I found a mixture of perpendicular till almost 10 degree deflection in the paintings and drawings. Maybe one of experts in mediterrian ships may give some hints.

Hi Michael,

I have just started to build the Reale. It is really a challenge. But the excellent blogs of Frank and the others give you many hints. Moreover it makes really fun to think about the process as already mentioned by Frank.

Clark

 

[fmodajr]

Hello

Thank you all for visiting and the "likes".  Appreciated!

 

After finishing the upper deck supports on the starboard side, I then repeated everything for the port side, with a minor difference.

The port side only has 29 upper platforms, whereas the starboard side has 30. This is because there is a row removed to allow for the cooking station.

 

Gluing of the main upper deck support.

 

Attaching the platform and finish painting

 

View of the base of the cooking station. I painted this black for now and will worry about how the cooking area will be finished at a later point

 

Completed upper platforms on both sides.

 

Before I start to plank these platforms, I had to make the upper beam for the decorative face that I made earlier in the build. The planks will butt up against this beam. I had to make the thickness of this beam a little thicker than I wanted to because I will follow the planking plan from the "Fleur de Lis". (I will explain in the next post)

 

The beam sticks out further than the decorative face. (Same distance as the lower beam)

 

Next step is to make up the deck planks.

 

Thanks,

Frank

 

[fmodajr]

As stated above, I am modifying the Corel Kit instructions for the decking and will try to follow the "Fleur de Lis" plans.

The Corel kit calls for the deck planks to be 4mm wide. I scaled the "Fleur de Lis" plans and it comes out to about 6.35 mm wide or 1/4 inch. So wider deck planks.

 

I first cut out the same Eastern White Pine that I used for the lower decks and ran it thru my thickness sander to 1/4 inch thick.

Next I glued some black construction paper to one side.

I then cut several strips and ground them into two different thicknesses.

 

One Strip of wood I ground to 1.5 MM thick and cut and chamfered 8 pieces.

These 8 pieces are thicker than the rest of the deck planks. They will have a slot cutout in the middle, from which the chainplate and chain will pass through for the shroud rigging for the main mast. The Corel plans also show the slots, but have the planks the same thickness as all the other planks, with no chamfering. The extra thickness of these 8 deck planks is why I made the end beam, that they will butt up against, a little thicker (From the last post)

 

Eight Deck pieces 1.5 MM Thick

 

The rest of the deck planks much thinner

 

The green arrows show the eight raised deck planks that will be slotted for the shroud rigging. In-between them are the thinner deck planks

 

Once I am finished working on the deck planks, there will be a red painted trim strip fastened to the outer edge of the deck pieces.

 

Before I add that trim strip, however, I have to first finish laying in all of the deck pieces, cutout the 8 slots on each side, add some tree nails, sand, stain and finish with a top coat, so the deck will match the coloring of the lower decks.

 

Thanks for stopping by,

Frank

 

[marktiedens]

That`s an awful lot of repetitive work - looks perfect, even in the close-ups.

 

Mark