To paint or not to paint, a quandry

[Keith Black]

3 hours ago, paulsutcliffe said:

I am starting to believe

 Welp, guess that means the garage is gonna see some new brushes, a fancy airbrush, a much needed shelf for all that new paint, and a wife asking "and exactly when were you planning on painting the house Mr Believer" 

[paulsutcliffe]

7 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Welp, guess that means the garage is gonna see some new brushes, a fancy airbrush, a much needed shelf for all that new paint, and a wife asking "and exactly when were you planning on painting the house Mr Believer" 

45/50 years since I've done any painting on a model I guess, so yes new brushes and paint purchased, airbrush no, anyway here goes don't laugh!!

The hull is still a bit bumpy in places from the warping, she had a hard life and a few scrapes 😁

 

 

The blue was done on the cheerful model in the rogers collection as chuck showed, so  I've worked from there although still not done the counter or keel

As I mentioned you can really see the mouldings and details now they are painted, what do we think??

 

Regards

Paul

 

[GrandpaPhil]

Paul,

  Looks good!

Phil

[Keith Black]

 I like it Paul, I like it a lot, it does make the ole girl pop. The hull planking looks ever so much better and the paint should help keep the wood from drawing moisture in the future.

 When I started painting the Tennessee it was a new experience for me. But, the more I painted the better I got at getting sharper lines with these ole shaky hands. One thing that really helped was WOP. It's impossible for me to get a sharp line on the first go, I beat myself to death with my first attempts. Then I sealed what paint I had applied with a coat of WOP, after it had dried I was able to go back and achieve sharper more defined lines. Because of the poly coat, if I went too far over my line, with a moist Q-Tip I was able to easily remove any unwanted over painted area. Even if the paint had dried, it was easily removed. When I'm satisfied with the paint, I seal with a final coat of poly. Each coat of paint builds up and it's easy to lose detail. I try to make my paint as watery as possible and still get pigment applied. On sealing with WOP, don't seal until all the wood that you want left natural, like the deck, has had all traces of any unwanted over paint removed. I use fairly inexpensive hobby craft acrylics, after the poly is applied, the paint is on there to stay. 

 Keep up the good work buddy.........Keith

[Thunder]

I leave the painting of my models to completing plastic or resin kits, and then here is the curve ball as in this case I would strive to make most of it look like wood.

 

 

I have only painted one wooden model but that was because of the era being predicted

 

this is my least favourite of my models.

 

It really depends on what you want. I do not consider wooden kit building in the same league because most modellers of cars etc would paint it but also strive to make it look like a replica of the real thing. Therefore they would also weather it and use painting techniques such as applying washes, stippling etc. Where as your paintwork is good it looks too clean and does not have depth (just my opinion). For me it still does not look authentic.

 

For this reason I categorise wood model ship building differently to using plastic etc. Wood is more about the build process. Other mediums are more about the authentic painting etc.

 

This is kind of proven when you see someone building a ship such as Gorch Foch out of wood. In this case painted plastic would look far more accurate.

 

I would also disagree that ships were all painted, pre 1800's when paint was very expensive wouldn't they have been ''paid' or varnished. In the case of your model above I would probably paint the same apart from the lower hull which I feel is more authentic varnished.

 

This of course is only an opinion and it is about what each individual wants to get from their hobby. My opinion is that you have to be careful with painting not to make it look like a toy.

[wefalck]

There are two extremes: the ones that want to show they skills in working with materials and those, who want to create a real-life impression of the ship. In the first case obviously one would show the bare materials, while in the second everything that was painted on a real ship would be painted on the model. In between there is a whole spectrum of combinations.

 

Having said this, there seem to be also certain 'fashions' or 'conventions' in ship models. For instance, there is no obvious reason why in kits the keels and the stem are in darker wood than the planking, but people seem to be used to this appearance and buy such kits.

[vossiewulf]

On 4/3/2019 at 2:08 AM, paulsutcliffe said:

I still cant get over the hurdle of painting the boxwood keel(scarph joint showing) the counter (holly planks and treenails) is it a step to far???

My LN has a clear-finished holly counter and transom for no justifiable historic reason, and clear-finished cocobolo wales, stem, keel, and sternpost. No one has attempted to burn me at the stake yet.

[paulsutcliffe]

Thanks Keith for the advice I have also acquired some Tamiya masking tape which will hopefully help the shaky hands, I have also painted one of my spare 18lb cannons from the sirius to see how it looked, although im not going to start painting the Sirius

 

Vossie nobody taken out a contract on you either yet I presume lol

 

Thunder I believe all naval ships were pretty much painted maybe varnish was used on merchant ships, you are correct about them being "payed" but this only covered the White ,brown or black stuff (whaleoil, rosin and brimstone) covering the hull, presumably why most older models show a white bottom, and I don't think ever varnished, coppering experiments began in the 1760's but the fleet wasn't covered until the late 1700s 

 

Regards

Paul 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by paulsutcliffe

[rwiederrich]

fascinating exchange of opinions.  One  can only draw from their experiences, and my 47 years of building models afforded me the pleasure of adding to my experiences, cars, trains, tanks modern war vessels, plains(fixed winged and rotary), motorcycles, houses and ships.  I've built in nearly every era.. and have set every *Kind* in dioramas. (static and animated).

As a modeler, when trying to exhibit a particular theme or technique, I give it special attention and venue of exposure.  If I were attenuating an emphasis on minuet accurate details, such as treenails, and all manner of specific joinery, I would expose these details and provide the greatest exposure(which emphasizes and reveals my true skill and knowledge)(IT IS MY INTENTION TO EXPOSE THESE ASPECTS).  Therefore, I use the most accurate grains and shades of wooden material to *emphasize* this.  If my goal is to represent accuracy in rigging....I do the same.

IMV so many things must be taken into account, by the builder, as to what they intend to emphasize...if anything.

Un painted vessels intend to emphasize the construction of a vessel being modeled...is it accurate...so far as the construction is concerned, because that is the emphasis.

Carvers of wood to create reliefs generally do not paint them.....again...for the same reasons.

 

A well planked hull of respectable wood selection will be planked tightly and cleanly...oiled or varnished to show off the craftsman's skill...but is that *Accurate*?  Most hulls on real vessels were planked with steamed planks of sizable means(4~6" thick), treenailed and most assuredly with gaps between the planks.

Would that be acceptable for a modeler? Probably not...but then again the vessel would then be caulked with various hemp materials and then tar/pitch filled for a sealant.  Topped off by a generous viscus coat of preservative paint.

All applied to make the vessel sound and *Leak proof* Sea worthy.

 

Copious amounts of paint were applied to protect the vessel from the harsh salt water and air.  Accuracy of paint hue is less historical then the application of it. IMV.

 

With all this being said...if I built my historically accurate model from scrap coffee can lids, and left it unpainted, I would surely get some criticism.  However, if I painted it, covering all the plastic and glue residue, one might think nothing of the models construction material and focus on the models skillfully executed accuracy(a shameful self promoting pun).

 

Coming to the close of my self bloviating point.  I enjoy all ship models..for I see within them the builders intent.  I personally paint all my models...my line of reasoning, is because ships sailed in water...water is caustic and thus ships were painted to protect them from this element.  In the cases where vessels were not painted...they lasted long enough for the owner to build another....and if he valued his time and money...he painted the next one.

 

I deeply respect all my fellow modelers, for they are a discriminating bunch of awesome folks.

 

Rob