Real Ships or Furniture?

[Bill Jackson]

Guys I am on my first build (San Martin galleon). I want to get some opinions on whether galleons should look like real ships, or wheather they should be painted and stained etc., to look pretty like furniture.

I have taken a lot of pains to get my galleon looking like it just stepped out of thw history books. The wales are worn, the hull is painted amd stained to look like there is wear, and the hull under the waterline is appears aged from seawater.

I could just not bring myself to color code this galleon so that it looks like furniture. I could bring myself to do that.

Anyway... can I get a bit of discussion on this matter?

 

Thanks in advance

Bill

[ASAT]

Hi Bill, I’m pretty sure around here you will find all types, I’ve seen it posted quite a few times that “you’re the captain, do what you want” personally, I like to use exotic woods instead of paint and I’m not too concerned if my results aren’t historically accurate. I like my models to be more of a artsy centerpiece than an exact representation of what it may have looked like. I do think that historical accuracy is valued more on MSW though, but most of us respect the vision of the builder. That’s just my observation and I do not speak with any authority about MSW. You could start a build log or do you have any pictures of your galleon to share? They really do speak 1000 words and will most likely generate a few responses.....  hope that helps?      Lou

[Bill Jackson]

Lou,

Thanks for your opinion. As a newbee I wanted to here what you guys had to say. Thanks again.. Oh here is a pic

[mtaylor]

Bill,

Feel free to start a build log even at this point in the build.  If you have some pics from earlier you can put them in or just go from where you are now.

[wefalck]

I gather there are two main streams in shipmodelling: those, who go for the 'cabinet-maker' style to show their artisanal skills and those who try to achieve a representation of what the ship may have looked like in real life - and anything in between. There seem to be also certain conventions, such as 'builder's model' or 'admiralty' style that were developed at various times. The two most common ways of finishing sailing-ship models seem to be the 'cabinet-maker' style with all wood stained/varnished and the one painting the model prototype fashion, but minus weathering and everything brand-new and Bristol-fashion.

[Bill Jackson]

Thanks for your discussion.

For now, I will keep the San Martin as realistic as I can. Maybe next build I will try something different.

[Louie da fly]

Bill, if you want your ship to look like she's been at sea for a long time without opportunity for repair or painting, go for it! 

 

I remember when I read "Two Years Before The Mast" they kept the crew busy with maintenance of the ship every day during the voyage, but when they were going to their home port they repainted, repaired and made the ship look brand spanking new so they could show off when they got home. It was a point of pride. But they didn't paint her until then. Anything that was worn probably wasn't fixed till then either, unless it affected the efficient handling of the ship. Maintenance of hull, masts, spars, cordage and sails would have been done as a matter of course, but "priddying up" seems not to have been done as a routine, so a ship after a few months at sea would probably have looked a bit dull and scruffy. I suppose it would also depend on the captain, but any expense  unnecessary to the running of the ship is likely to have taken a back seat.

 

Steven

 

 

[wefalck]

Maintenance efforts seem to be correlated with economic margins in the respective trade, as evidenced by photographic records from the 1850s on. Low-margin trades had to make do with smaller crews and less cash to carry out maintenance beyond the functionally necessary.

 

One could speculate that these margins also correlate with the pride of shipowners and captains took in their assets - this could be, however, also a 'chicken-and-egg' issue: low margins make owners/captains sloppy or sloppy owners/captains drift off into low-margin business.

 

There would also be a difference between long-distance traders and those that had short turn-arounds, say in European coastal waters, which didn't leave much 'leisure' for cosmetic maintenance. The Navy is an altogether different story, where maintenance was the prime occupation of crews during peace-time.

[Bill Jackson]

Steven thanks for your time.

I fully agree. I did 2p years floating on ships in the US Navy, and I was lucky enough to serve one one ship thst had teak wood decks. Its amazing how much damage salt water does to steel. But it very quickly destroys wood. 

In addition, the original paint for the San Martin is currently unknown. So any paint I put on the hull would be a guess. In fact  a long shot! 

Finally, if you guys that are interested in Spanish galleons, please google El Galeon. They have built a full size galleon that travels arohbd the world. Also please notice the color of the hull.

Guys, thanks a lot for this discussion. I really enjoy this.

Bill

[pontiachedmark]

Gidday Bill.

I feel this topic will generate a lot of discussion.

My opinion, and I stress it is my opinion only, is that whatever the builder is happy with is how the model should be built.

What a pity there were no cameras, or should that be phones, around then.

I suppose a lot of the colour combinations are made with the builders discretion.

I have seen reference made to Bills of Lading  where emphasis has been placed on paint colours.

I find this somewhat erroneous as the combinations are many and varied.

I am looking forward to comments from more knowledgeable souls on this topic.

Wishing you all the best in your endeavours.

Mark.

 

 

[Bill Jackson]

13 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Bill, if you want your ship to look like she's been at sea for a long time without opportunity for repair or painting, go for it! 

 

I remember when I read "Two Years Before The Mast" they kept the crew busy with maintenance of the ship every day during the voyage, but when they were going to their home port they repainted, repaired and made the ship look brand spanking new so they could show off when they got home. It was a point of pride. But they didn't paint her until then. Anything that was worn probably wasn't fixed till then either, unless it affected the efficient handling of the ship. Maintenance of hull, masts, spars, cordage and sails would have been done as a matter of course, but "priddying up" seems not to have been done as a routine, so a ship after a few months at sea would probably have looked a bit dull and scruffy. I suppose it would also depend on the captain, but any expense  unnecessary to the running of the ship is likely to have taken a back seat.

 

Steven

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

9 hours ago, pontiachedmark said:

 

I suppose a lot of the colour combinations are made with the builders discretion.

I have seen reference made to Bills of Lading  where emphasis has been placed on paint colours.

 

From what I've read, the lists you see are the basics.  The paint was diluted with turpentine (or other spirit) and mixed to provide the various colors.

[Bill Jackson]

You know, I have read the same thing about colors. That was one of the first things I did, was to research the correct colors. I even emailed Portugal, where the galleon was built in 1579. Neither the main libraries nor the museum had any info.

So I emailed the company who made the model. Again, they have no idea what the real colors were.  But on the box it was all painted and really looked good...?????

Since I live in the Philippines, and the galleon I am building was one of the "Manila Galleons" that was not built here but repaired a number of times  along with 108 other galleons, I will go to the city where the shipyard was (back in the day) and see what I can find.

Thanks for you words and I have learned alot from this forum..

Bill

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I’m a “paint everything” person there’s very little wood with the grain showing on my models. But I can appreciate the “only wood “ guys since they can’t use fillers and the craftsmanship thing is often amazing. But I DO have a problem when plywood is left unpainted this just takes me right out of the illusion and I feel a little sad that all that work went into the making of it but there’s the plywood’s edge ruining the effect.